IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #19

[elmomom]

I doubt that the city hired him. My first thought was that the current residents could have. I imagine it's difficult to be living there right now. Anticipating next question: Not sure who the current residents are. I saw what looked to be a young college gal in one of the apts the other day. Door was open and she was standing half in and half out having a cigarette. She could have been a cleaning lady for all I know.

I'm wondering if with all the publicity this case is getting, there may be worries of vandalism, break-ins or just lookey-loos to discourage.

 

[Gabby66]

Hypothetical here, I don't want to be spreading rumors. What if you heard, "Rossman admitted he and Lauren went up to an apt and did “all kinds of drugs” in the short time they were at Smallwood."

Would it change anyone's theories if true? How?

Hmmm...I can't recall the timeline exactly but weren't they only there about 15 mins.? I'm not sure how it would change any theories b/c A. we already knew she and he were both there and B. most of us have already suspected she had done drugs anyway, and probably throughout the night.

The only thing that I can think of in terms of theories, is that it may more closely support the OD theory, but it seems like many of us are still very strongly considering that as a possibility already. So to answer your question, I'm not sure this has much of an impact on theories. I would however, be interested in knowing how this may be relative to the fight. I also have a hard time understanding how they could arrive, go up the elevator, do "ALL KINDS" of drugs, then still have time for a fight, and be out the door in 15 mins. That's not very much time, especially since it sounds as though LS was moving pretty slowly.

 

[elmomom]

Hmmm...I can't recall the timeline exactly but weren't they only there about 15 mins.? I'm not sure how it would change any theories b/c A. we already knew she and he were both there and B. most of us have already suspected she had done drugs anyway, and probably throughout the night.

The only thing that I can think of in terms of theories, is that it may more closely support the OD theory, but it seems like many of us are still very strongly considering that as a possibility already. So to answer your question, I'm not sure this has much of an impact on theories. I would however, be interested in knowing how this may be relative to the fight. I also have a hard time understanding how they could arrive, go up the elevator, do "ALL KINDS" of drugs, then still have time for a fight, and be out the door in 15 mins. That's not very much time, especially since it sounds as though LS was moving pretty slowly.

one thought I had was that this sounds like what may have happened BEFORE the trip to Kilroy's. I have to go read LE's version of the timeline, not HT's. Could it be possible that CR and LS met up at DRs first (where this scenario above played out), then everyone went to JR's, then CR and LS went to Kilroys... etc?

 

[Gabby66]

Neither is possible, given the 2:40-50 video evidence.

ITA - It doesn't appear this is possible for her to have died at SW, given video to show she exited. There doesn't appear to be any video of her re-entering. DR came to mind when I read that they may have done drugs there, and this makes the 4:15 call even more suspicious.

This could be what perpetuated the rumors that she could have OD'd. Surely kids at SW knew of this, if true. It doesn't take long for people to start talking. I mean really, I don't think that someone who has done drugs many nights and partied, would necessarily be suspected of ODing if she turned up missing. But I do think that if someone was seen in her physical state and known to STILL be doing "all kinds" of MORE drugs, this could be highly suspected! Coupled with the fact that HT said she took things too far that night, it sure sounds like people know some things.

 

[Jupiter812]

Neither is possible, given the 2:40-50 video evidence.

Details, details. :crazy:

When I said off the top of my head . . . :crazy:

 

[Gabby66]

one thought I had was that this sounds like what may have happened BEFORE the trip to Kilroy's. I have to go read LE's version of the timeline, not HT's. Could it be possible that CR and LS met up at DRs first (where this scenario above played out), then everyone went to JR's, then CR and LS went to Kilroys... etc?

Yes, that's a great thought and this would make more sense with her foaming at the mouth at Kilroy's, if that's believable. Thanks.

 

[Jupiter812]

Details, details. :crazy:

When I said off the top of my head . . . :crazy:

I deleted my "she died there" post, y'all. I don't want to have a steady stream of "not possible" all day long. I take full responsibility for my brain fart.:loser:

Break time!

 

[katydid23]

People usually think it makes no sense for friends to 'dump' the body of a friend who OD'ed. And it does not make sense, but IT HAPPENS. It happened in our small community last summer. A 17 yr old girl was found in a shallow ditch in the Malibu Hills. She had died after taking heroin and oxycontin and alcohol. Her 'best friend' drove into the hills and dumped her instead of taking her to 'get help'--which is what he told the others he was going to do. They had said 'let's call 911'---but he said he would rush her to the fire station up the block. THAT never happened.

 

[Frogzilla]

When I think of someone higher up on the drug supply chain, in my mind's eye I see the older gal in the Twitter video (is that link allowed?) that is kissing AB and I see the guy standing next to her. He looks to be her age, (sort of looks like Justin Timberlake). They appear to me to be a couple. Maybe they brought the party supplies that night.

Here is my take on higher up DD possibly being involved of disposing LS. Unless this higher up person was DIRECTLY responsible for harming LS in some way, or is in a equal partnership with the person directly responsible, once they heard somebody possibly OD they would be out the door before you can say another sentence. I mean really, somebody with anything to lose is not going to implicate themselves into a possible crime, especially to cover for somebody who buys drugs from them. You could argue that the person they are covering for may rat them out to LE, but most serious drug dealers insulate their activities, as a whole, from their buyers, for just these reasons, especially somebody deeply involved with a drug enterprise in a college town.
Also, ANYBODY is capable of disposing a body. The world is full of missing persons who have vanished never to be seen again. Ranging from mothers who kill and dispose of their own children, to random predators disposing of victims. ANYBODY!!!!!!

 

[elmomom]

OK, going out on the speculation limb a bit further than usual for me here... but...
partying starts at Dr's (who is there, ? HT... etc?) trip over to JRs (he's out of booze) go over to Kilroys to get some alcohol, then go back to the start of the party night - DR's where folks and friends are - but get chased out/discouraged/confrontation ensues because LS is already too wasted and CR is being a jerk, so they leave since LS (or CR) is not ready to call it a night, go back to 5 North, (bedtime), JR calls DR to come get LS (no answer).

 

[Gabby66]

OK, going out on the speculation limb a bit further than usual for me here... but...
partying starts at Dr's (who is there, ? HT... etc?) trip over to JRs (he's out of booze) go over to Kilroys to get some alcohol, then go back to the start of the party night - DR's where folks and friends are - but get chased out/discouraged/confrontation ensues because LS is already too wasted and CR is being a jerk, so they leave since LS (or CR) is not ready to call it a night, go back to 5 North, (bedtime), JR calls DR to come get LS (no answer).

I think this is very possible, but I would pause before the last sentence. I just don't get the feeling that the call was to come and get LS (at least not alive). JMO

 

[JeannaT]

How horrible and sad for Lauren's mother. What a heartfelt letter.

The thing is, if several people know what happened and were involved and some have much less (or no) guilt, the chances are high it will come out eventually what happened. If only one person knows what happened, I think they've completely gotten away with it.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

OK, going out on the speculation limb a bit further than usual for me here... but...
partying starts at Dr's (who is there, ? HT... etc?) trip over to JRs (he's out of booze) go over to Kilroys to get some alcohol, then go back to the start of the party night - DR's where folks and friends are - but get chased out/discouraged/confrontation ensues because LS is already too wasted and CR is being a jerk, so they leave since LS (or CR) is not ready to call it a night, go back to 5 North, (bedtime), JR calls DR to come get LS (no answer).

I've heard at least some partying started at SW. I don't know where. Think HT was present; she knew where LS was, at least. Don't know if DR was present - think I read something suggesting he wasn't? - but even if not, he and LS joined up to go to JR's. They were presumably at 5 North for at least 45 minutes to an hour. My understanding was DR went back to SW when LS went to the bar

 

[phantomthought]

Regarding putting an OD'd body out in an alley (or anywhere to be found)......it really doesn't matter what we think might be the most logical. These boys probably had three issues which we (presumably) do not have at the moment: 1. Being under the influence of drugs and alcohol (perhaps a LOT). 2. Extreme fear 3. Maybe some guilt for giving her drugs.

We all should keep in mind, as this is being analyzed, that these boys are simply NOT going to be make logical decisions. The drugs/alcohol would significantly impair any sense of logic. These guys are still young and impulsive and as I've discussed before, have non fully-developed brains. Add in some fear and it's typical for one in this stage to consider "hiding". Any parent knows how kids react to doing something wrong, or even to accidents. It's natural for a kid to throw a ball in the house, break a vase, and hide or try to repair it so Mom won't find out. Of course this isn't a ball, nor little kids, but the outcome may not be all that different with immature thinking. These are much older "kids", but this is also a much more serious issue. The feeling of "Uh Oh - let's hide it" may not be gone, especially when under the influence. Add in the fact that they may have been a contributor to her OD'ing, and they may just have wanted to get rid of the situation all together. Being under the influence and scared, I'm not sure they would have the sound mind to understand HOW to better deal with it.

I think it's very important to try to get into their head as we consider what may have happened. I keep reading so many people saying "this doesn't make sense" but yet when you consider how a drunk/drugged person reacts, maybe it does. This is why I keep going back to LS's condition. While I think ODing is a real possibility, it's now hard to believe she left to go to a DD's house, wanting to buy more coke, in the newly as-described condition. I don't think she'd even be asking. Don't think like a person who WANTS to party, wanting more coke. Think like a person admitting to taking Xanex, who's foaming at the mount, stumbling out of an elevator, falling on you knees, and needing to be scooped up and helped out of a building. Would YOU be walking down the street two hours later, out looking for coke? I don't think so. I do seem to buy the Mystery Man 3:38 thing, and I'm not sure how this fits in, but the witness certainly describes her to be the same as the person described her coming out of the elevator. How would this witness have known to describe her this way, when this report just came out? I think it's true, but I'm not sure how it fits in.

For me rather than try to put myself in their position I would rather look at other people that were put in their position and see how they react.Unfortunately a college student OD is not a new thing.In those cases what do the other students usually do.They may panic and delay calling for help.Hide any evidence before calling the police claim no knowledge of drug use.But transport a body and dump it?How often does that happen?
I will admit dumping her body after she OD makes a lot more sense if she OD on a drug not that she took willingly (cocaine) but on a date rape drug so that evidence found from her body would point to foul play rather than an accident.

 

[elmomom]

I've heard at least some partying started at SW. I don't know where. Think HT was present; she knew where LS was, at least. Don't know if DR was present - think I read something suggesting he wasn't? - but even if not, he and LS joined up to go to JR's. They were presumably at 5 North for at least 45 minutes to an hour. My understanding was DR went back to SW when LS went to the bar

bbm.

That was my initial understanding but I have come to question the precision of that statement. At first it sounded like DR went back at the same time CR and LS left for Kilroys. I've come to realize that it isn't that specific. He could have left any time after CR and LS left. It's not a very big detail, but really when you start pondering possible meaning of the 4:15 cal to DR, it may help make some of those scenarios fit.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I agree that we don't know precisely when DR returned. But we do know that he gave LE access to his phone, almost certainly has his (time of) entry to SW recorded on camera and perhaps keycard data, and has participated in searches. I have seen him on video and believe he has an honest demeanor.

 

[Darcyline]

PhantomThought-It actually happens a lot more often than you think. Someone here did a good job of compiling some links at one point and there were tons of stories about friends freaking out when another friend ODs and hiding the body. Now, usually the body is found, but what if they were just better at hiding it or got lucky? I float between thinking she just Oded and she Oded with some other factor (date rape drug, some sort of sex that may or may not be completely consensual, she died at a DD's house which would change things, etc).

Realistically, any are possible.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I have seen him on video and believe he has an honest demeanor.

I'll add that I can say pretty much the same about CR, though he gave a more prepared statement.

 

[elmomom]

I agree that we don't know precisely when DR returned. But we do know that he gave LE access to his phone, almost certainly has his (time of) entry to SW recorded on camera and perhaps keycard data, and has participated in searches. I have seen him on video and believe he has an honest demeanor.

I am not accusing him of anything other than receiving a phone call that he most likely did not even answer. But the subject of that phone call has been up for speculation. If in fact, DR was there later in the night than we are aware of, then the subject of the phone call (which he most likely did not answer) may be open for more possibilities. (And I am declining to give a "such as..." scenario just now.)

 

[elmomom]

I'll add that I can say pretty much the same about CR, though he gave a more prepared statement.

Incidentally I agree with both of them not impressing me as anything other than young college guys, pretty standard fare, and neither could I picture being particularly nefarious. Neither were the descriptions I have heard of JR.

But I am not at all convinced that there is any nefarious scenario here, except an accidental death and a bunch or less of panicked college kids. Sharing drugs with your buddies and having one die may make you a criminal on the books, but to me the idea is absolutely absurd. And if the body was hidden because of a fear of legal consequences then I feel badly for everyone, and I think the law should be changed.
OTOH, I am more of the mindset that if LS was hidden away because certain people wanted to hide their lifestyle (from parents and the school) so that it could continue, then I have a little less sympathy. In other words, I think it should have been a call to "grow up" but not end in a prison term.