IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #20

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Jupiter812 said:
Yes, that stuck in my mind too but for a different reason. CR and MB are in Kelley. I figure JW and JR were not accepted into Kelley so they took SPEA as a fallback. They both are Mgt. majors as I recall.
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Yeah...lots of connections within the group. CR and MB were roommates and good buddies...that's known. The reason the JW/JR school connections struck me is because everyone keeps saying how JR and JW didn't know each other...so they would have had no contact with each other that night. For example some think...JR contacted JW to come and get LS from his place when she returned after 3am. She was intoxicated, no shoes, no phone, no keys. If they knew each other, would JR contact JW for LS? I have doubted this all along...because everyone said that even though they both knew LS and were in the same sorority, that they were never friends. And then later in the posts (a lot later), we find out that they were also taking the same classes...not necessarily together though. It was just another link pulling them closer together. It made me stop and say "hmmmm, interesting". Lol. And just for the record, even though I'm throwing this info out for others to digest and form their own opinion (because someone asked about it)....I personally don't think they knew each other. Probably knew of each other though.
 
Tr. said:
Well..obviously you theorize that CR left SW for fear of being caught on the premises and face possible trespass, pi, doc charges..etc
I get it.
If I follow correctly then you believe LS ultimately OD'd afterward and was disposed of in a dumpster...please correct as necessary.

I wonder if the group of assailants were in as much a hurry to leave the premises as they had just committed an assault?
Seems to me that they would have more reason to bolt then CR did.
But then maybe they have a lesser fear of arrest then CR, after all they initiated the altercation?
It's amazing to me how the victim could be that fearful of a police encounter while his assailants are seemingly the opposite.
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CR also was in a diversion for a prior illegal consumption arrest (his second one.) This pretrial diversion was and is in effect until April 2012. That means that he plead guilty to the charge, was on probation until April 2012, and if he has no more arrests/convictions by then, his record is pretty much cleared.

If he was arrested that night for public intox, contrib to minor, or possession, etc. and convicted, he would automatically be found guilty of prior charges that were still under diversion period.

I think that is a possibility as to why he just left after altercation. But, I don't think that their leaving is strange. Most of the events, actually, seem plausible to me that night as the kids tell them, esp for intoxicated kids in college.

The strange things to me are the altercation (maybe two), and the Spierers' pleas to "friends" of LS to come forward. That's what leads me to believe that at least one of those kids is involved, somehow, with something. Even if it is just withholding info. Just my thoughts, tho. :twocents:
 
always curious said:
The only info we have is from one person who saw the SW video and leaked LS's condition while leaving there. No mention of the altercation. If they saw the video's then could one speculate that they saw that part as well? Why no mention of it? Why leak one part and not the other? IMO they are being hushed. Just wondering how much weight LE have. Keeping the landfill search out of the media would be highly unlikely...at this point in time. What if they searched it before the landfill commotion started recently? It's pretty far away...Terra Haute...so is it possible that it went under the radar at that point in time? They've known about the dumpster hits since their cadaver dogs were used in June. Food for thought.
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<snipped.

It's too bad the IDS staffers were wrapping things up for the summer. I believe they could have made some inroads with this group. Tony Gatto talked to an employee at Sports. He has that discussion on his blog. He was not able to get a second interview with this source nor the 3:38 manager.

I didn't know the cadaver dogs were in June. That's good to know. Thx
 
bonechaos said:
Many people have questioned why JR would admit being the last person to see LS if he was involved with her disappearance. Here is why I believe he would. This assumes she was, indeed, with JR.

1. He knew there was a possibility that someone would tell LE that she had gone to his place. LS probably told him she had just come from CR/MB's place when she got there. Therefore, he knew there was a possibility that LS told the boys where she was going before she left - i.e., "Okay, MB, I'm going to pop in at JR's now. See ya later." If MB told LE where she was headed (since CR apparently doesn't remember anything) and JR denied she had ever been there, that would cast even more suspicion on him than if he was upfront about it.

2. He knew LS might have left DNA behind in his apartment. Fibers, whatever - I'm sure he watched CSI and the likes and was afraid that LE might swoop in, find one of Lauren's hairs, and charge him with murder. If he was caught lying about her being there and LE found her DNA in his apartment, he would be in big trouble.

3. He had a guest there, by all accounts. If he lied about LS being there, and the guest said she was there, then he would, once again, be in big trouble.

Getting caught lying is the number one way to be named a suspect. JR definitely had a reason to tell LE that LS was with him, guilty or not.
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I believe the only one of the three reasons you put forward that makes sense is 1. Getting caught in a lie that she wasn't there when she really was would look really bad. Would be much easier to say she just left on her own accord, whether she did or not.
Number 2 is a little bit more tricky, only because we know she visited JR at times over the last year and she was also at his apartment earlier in the night before going to the bar.
Number 3 is really tricky because then you have to not only figure the scenarios which are possible, but the possible reactions to all the scenarios. Examples would be, maybe JR, guest and LS were all sitting together and LS began to show signs she was ODing, would you think trying to get help for her makes sense in that scenario? Maybe JR and LS passed out before the guest did and the guest saw it as an opportunity to take advantage of LS. When JR and guest awoke, maybe LS was dead and JR didn't want to explain why he had a dead girl in his apartment all night and the guest, well his reason for hiding her would be obvious. Too many possible scenarios and reactions to pinpoint one.
 
Jupiter812 said:
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=hp#!/groups/208180112562676

LE visits ChickJustin. This probably won't stay up long, watch it while you can.
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WOW LMAO She just unloaded on this guy and he seems quite confused. She seems to wonder why they aren't asking her about LS, but I think she made her ideas very clear a few times. If she wasn't on their radar before, she certainly is now. All this video needs is a UFO sighting to put the icing on the conspiracy theory cake.

LOL Elmomom, you put the UFO in your post before I finished mine.
 
Frogzilla said:
I believe the only one of the three reasons you put forward that makes sense is 1. Getting caught in a lie that she wasn't there when she really was would look really bad. Would be much easier to say she just left on her own accord, whether she did or not.
Number 2 is a little bit more tricky, only because we know she visited JR at times over the last year and she was also at his apartment earlier in the night before going to the bar.
Number 3 is really tricky because then you have to not only figure the scenarios which are possible, but the possible reactions to all the scenarios. Examples would be, maybe JR, guest and LS were all sitting together and LS began to show signs she was ODing, would you think trying to get help for her makes sense in that scenario? Maybe JR and LS passed out before the guest did and the guest saw it as an opportunity to take advantage of LS. When JR and guest awoke, maybe LS was dead and JR didn't want to explain why he had a dead girl in his apartment all night and the guest, well his reason for hiding her would be obvious. Too many possible scenarios and reactions to pinpoint one.
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re: #2. I thought about that too, but I don't think JR would have necessarily thought, "Well, Lauren has been in my apartment before, so no big deal if her DNA is found here." Best to be safe than sorry. With the influx of ridiculous CSI-type shows, he may have considered that LE could determine things like when exactly she was last there, etc. Again, just something that could have been going through his head.

re: #3. I wasn't really considering exact scenarios; I don't really think they are relevant. Regardless of what happened, regardless of whether the guest was involved in anything illegal that went on - if he admits LS was there, game over. I'm thinking about the perception of JR here. The existence of a witness who can testify LS was there is threat enough. JR has no way of knowing what the guest would/will possibly confess when questioned.

I wasn't making an argument as to what happened, just why JR would admit that he was the last to see Lauren if he was guilty of something (if he was not, the reasons why he would be truthful are obvious). Because in all three situations, if he did not, there is a possibility of him being caught lying. Then again, you only need to believe one reason to understand why he would admit he last saw LS.
 
Frogzilla said:
WOW LMAO She just unloaded on this guy and he seems quite confused. She seems to wonder why they aren't asking her about LS, but I think she made her ideas very clear a few times. If she wasn't on their radar before, she certainly is now. All this video needs is a UFO sighting to put the icing on the conspiracy theory cake.

LOL Elmomom, you put the UFO in your post before I finished mine.
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Great minds and all that?

The sad part is it seems everyone on the FB case discussion page seems to think she's onto something. I know she's extremely bright and all, but .....
 
elmomom said:
Great minds and all that?

The sad part is it seems everyone on the FB case discussion page seems to think she's onto something. I know she's extremely bright and all, but .....
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yeah they keep saying "well she must have said something true, otherwise they wouldn't be there" "and they didn't arrest her" :waitasec:

this is seriously taking up LE's time and NOT in a good way.
 
THIS IS RUMOR: A girl on that facebook page said JR has not enrolled in fall classes and moved completely out of Bloomington. Can anyone confirm?

IF true, I don't think that means anything. It would be extremely difficult to continue life in a place where you are suspected of foul play in such a highly publicized case. Just thought it was an interesting comment, though.
 
bonechaos said:
re: #2. I thought about that too, but I don't think JR would have necessarily thought, "Well, Lauren has been in my apartment before, so no big deal if her DNA is found here." Best to be safe than sorry. With the influx of ridiculous CSI-type shows, he may have considered that LE could determine things like when exactly she was last there, etc. Again, just something that could have been going through his head.

re: #3. I wasn't really considering exact scenarios; I don't really think they are relevant. Regardless of what happened, regardless of whether the guest was involved in anything illegal that went on - if he admits LS was there, game over. I'm thinking about the perception of JR here. The existence of a witness who can testify LS was there is threat enough. JR has no way of knowing what the guest would/will possibly confess when questioned.

I wasn't making an argument as to what happened, just why JR would admit that he was the last to see Lauren if he was guilty of something (if he was not, the reasons why he would be truthful are obvious). Because in all three situations, if he did not, there is a possibility of him being caught lying. Then again, you only need to believe one reason to understand why he would admit he last saw LS.
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Would have to be a complete moron to say she was not there when you know somebody else knows she was. This is also why the blanket statement of seeing her leave at X time is a perfect cover. It covers that LS was there and he could say they had a tea party and it also covers him of knowing what happened after she left. JR knows there are no cameras outside of his building and there are 4 directions LS could go once she left. That would be obvious 100/100 times vs. compounding lies. So whether she left there or not seems quite smart to say she just left, no?
If you are dealing with a dead body in your home, some strands of hair you can't identify without really looking for are a much lower priority than the body, same with fibers she may have contacted, they are easy to explain if she had been there. After disposing of the body, come back and do some vacuuming. Why concern yourself with small details when you can void it all with a few words. Also, how can you not consider specific scenarios in discussing this case, they are at the heart of what could of happened to LS. One could draw up an equal amount of scenarios why two people would have equal amounts to lose or a situation where one has everything to lose and the other does not. All these young adults come from seemingly wealthy and respectable families, that in itself implies there will always be something to lose.
 
bonechaos said:
THIS IS RUMOR: A girl on that facebook page said JR has not enrolled in fall classes and moved completely out of Bloomington. Can anyone confirm?

IF true, I don't think that means anything. It would be extremely difficult to continue life in a place where you are suspected of foul play in such a highly publicized case. Just thought it was an interesting comment, though.
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BBM. ITA with the bolded part.
 
Frogzilla said:
I believe the only one of the three reasons you put forward that makes sense is 1. Getting caught in a lie that she wasn't there when she really was would look really bad.
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...about as bad as saying she was when she wasn't.
 
I asked earlier for a place with all of the compiled data from this case, and this site seems to have a lot, and includes some speculation as well (but it does clarify between verified testimony and speculation.)

I hope I can post this. http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html And I hope it works, lol. :loser:

That Chick Justin comes across like a total wing-nut, IMHO. She might want to change her tactics. Just sayin'.
 
elmomom said:
yes, AB/ZO (and BB) live in either 10th and College Apts or 10th&College Village both of which are proximate to the alley
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This is confirmed to be the Villages, at least as of earlier this year. Look at civil not criminal proceedings.
 
Frogzilla said:
Why concern yourself with small details when you can void it all with a few words. Also, how can you not consider specific scenarios in discussing this case, they are at the heart of what could of happened to LS. One could draw up an equal amount of scenarios why two people would have equal amounts to lose or a situation where one has everything to lose and the other does not. All these young adults come from seemingly wealthy and respectable families, that in itself implies there will always be something to lose.
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I wasn't saying not to consider specific scenarios in the case. I was saying it did not matter what happened in order for JR to be motivated to tell the truth if there was a witness. People are interpreting what I said incorrectly; I apologize. I don't want people to think I was saying not to consider specific scenarios. I was making a very general point in which specific scenarios did not change motivation to tell the truth. i.e., JR could have killed her, he could have watched her OD, he could have watched the guest do something to her - the fact that there was a witness is the only important element to the point I was making that he was motivated to tell the truth as long as there was a witness. Alas, if I can't explain what I meant well enough here, I won't be able to in future posts. :(

So to change topic - how many of you believe JR is involved, and if so, how?
 
bx2 said:
This is confirmed to be the Villages, at least as of earlier this year. Look at civil not criminal proceedings.
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Interesting! thanks for the heads up. Wonder how many doors had to be broken for a threat of eviction.. lol. But it looks like it was canceled and dropped if I am reading it correctly.
 
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