IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

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After all this time, I still whole heartedly believe that Lauren died from consuming too much alcohol/drugs and then her “friends” disposed of her body. They didn’t kill her and have no problem maintaining their story.
 
PoppyJune said:
After all this time, I still whole heartedly believe that Lauren died from consuming too much alcohol/drugs and then her “friends” disposed of her body. They didn’t kill her and have no problem maintaining their story.
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I am on the other side, thinking she did leave and was abducted. However, I’m 55/45 in that direction. The guys sound like scumbags but I am not sure they disposed of her. I would really like to know how they pulled it off. Sounds like they were all pretty drunk (except the one who stayed home, MB?) so they likely would have called someone else to dump the body.

I struggle a lot with this case. The final question I always ask myself is “what do I find more likely;” a few drunk/pilled out college kids managed to dump this girls body without a trace + none of them cracked? Or she did leave and was abducted by someone random? I lean toward the latter and probably a seasoned killer. Once again, it could be either and I don’t understand why people are so passionate one way or the other, both are reasonable.

Then there is the boyfriend angle. LS was out with another guy, sounds like she did not tell him, and CR was punched by JW friend. Is it possible he got word of that, assuming his friend told him what happened, and found LS himself?

This won’t be solved IMO unless someone confesses, sadly.
 
mpnola said:
Stephanie harlowe and Derrick lavasseur are currently doing her case on crime weekly. It's best on YouTube, so you can see.
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Derrick is very objective and fair, Stephanie is not. She has been very dismissive of any theory that isn't "the guys are responsible." It's getting hard to listen to because Derrick is saying there are other possibilities, but Stephanie is essentially laughing at him and "knows" the guys did it.

Derrick said he doesn't blame the parents not wanting their kid sitting down with Lauren's parents. Stephanie said "why not if they are innocent?" Ridiculous. I would NEVER allow my young kid (especially a man) to give information to Lauren's parents, even if innocent. The cops are not on the side of the accused here.

Yet she has no problem suggesting the guys stashed her body in their car overnight and drove off the following morning and dumped her in the river. Maybe that happened, maybe it didn't. But I found it odd how she scoffed at every idea where Derrick suggested Lauren was abducted, yet she is certain some drunk college kids pulled this off without leaving any evidence and never cracked. I don't know, I think abduction vs. guys dumping her body due to an OD are both reasonable, thus I don't know how anyone can say either is a fact.

Sorry for the rant, but I found her insufferable on this coverage.
 
Yes, he had been my favorite since he was on Big Brother (and won by not telling them he was a detective!). Worth listening to, just to get a facts refresher. I am glad to have his clear thoughts on cases. Thanks for your input @george14
 
@george14 I could be swayed. Just my own opinion. I agree this case won’t be solved until someone confesses. I wonder if anyone ever will? Who knows, maybe the responsible party(ies) isn’t alive anymore. I am always so intrigued by these cases where the missing seem to have just vanished.
 
PoppyJune said:
@george14 I could be swayed. Just my own opinion. I agree this case won’t be solved until someone confesses. I wonder if anyone ever will? Who knows, maybe the responsible party(ies) isn’t alive anymore. I am always so intrigued by these cases where the missing seem to have just vanished.
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I agree that is what makes it interesting. I do lean toward her being abducted. That makes more sense as to why it has been so long because everyone was so focused on the guys. However, I still would love to know how these kids pulled this off if they did indeed do it. These guys aren’t career criminals; they were essentially drunk frat guys yet managed to not leave any evidence behind? Sounds too farfetched to me but I do think it’s possible.
 
PlatinumGirly said:
She may of played it well, just as PD played it well. Honestly if it wasn’t for the investigators finding the store receipt in his trash basket then he may of gotten away with it too. CCTV footage from the store showing him and the victim (his best friend) together was his final undoing...

I just didn’t get particularly good vibes from her at all, and I’m still not sure of just what her alibi for that night was/is, and if it is verified. It may be a reach to suspect her, but I don’t think it’s really that far from suspecting any of Lauren’s other friends and acquaintances.

At this point I really think the 5N crew are ‘red herrings’ so to speak.
I may be in the very small minority, but for the most part I buy their stories.
I also see it as near impossible that 3 guys would all cover up for each other for a who knows what kind of crime, especially when you take into account the police work that was done on the basis of these 3 guys being the last to see Lauren, and no evidence whatsoever was found. Had she died anywhere in/near their apartments then evidence would of been found, whether that be cadaver scent, bodily fluids, murder weapon, obvious use of a vehicle to transport her body elsewhere, scratches/marks on perps, etc... there’s just nothing. Nothing to suspect them literally apart from being the last known people to have seen her.
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You obviously did not read the YEARS of discussions about this case.
 
After Lauren Spierer’s last recorded fall, there is no indication that she ever was conscious again. Only the inconsistent statements from MB and JR claim that she was alive. CR had the convenient amnesia. JR's houseguest(s) statements are known only to LE (assuming they ever talked with them). It appears to me that she may have died right there after that last recorded fall. It's possible that she was alive but unconscious and CR had ill intent. That would be a significant reason to hide her body as it might contain evidence of rape. The story that MB gave about CR being in such bad shape isn't consistent with the video record of him or witness statements. However, it might have actually happened later; if for example CR decided to take advantage of Lauren, and she died in his room. Then CR might have freaked out and MB might have indeed called JR to for help, Only then does MB's story of mothering CR almost seems plausible. As discussed hundreds of times before, JR had no choice but to cover it up because it would lead back to him anyway. My first inclination is to think that she actually died after that last recorded fall. To me, the explanation for most of her things being found many feet away is that she was picked up and / or dragged over there. She was unconscious and since she couldn’t walk on her own, she either couldn’t get up or was dead right then. That would have been CR doing that. He was with her at the time, but why he stopped supporting her is noteworthy. If she went into cardiac arrest after that fall, she would have needed immediate CPR and 911 call. Assuming that CR was drunk / high but still somewhat conscious his actions might be delayed and his judgement impaired. That's the best case scenario for him. I think someone made the conscious decision to get her keycard and ID right there OR she had those 2 items concealed on her body like in a bra OR CR purposefully took those things from her earlier for no good reason. The fact that JR knows about those 2 items is a clue, a powerful one to me. I think it's most likely that CR had those 2 items, and that she died where those other items were found. Realizing that she was not breathing and that he could not wake her, CR brought her to or near to 5N and got MB to get JR. It is possible in the panic of that moment that MB did not know if she were alive or not, and CR were he not to have amnesia, could argue the same thing. OF course the obvious question is why not call 911? This is the whole problem here. They failed to call 911 and then when it became clear that she was
Dead, the cover up ensued. A fairly simple and fast moving chain of events. Based on all of the publicly known facts I think this is the most likely thing that happened. Some twists on it perhaps, like maybe she actually died on the way to 5N or at CR/MB's place. But I don't think she made it to 5N and not alive if she did. I think the stories of CR/MB and JR are contrived, calculated and orchestrated by JR. And so the idea that JR actually let her leave after all of what happened before, isn't believable at all. His own admissions of her condition destroy his story. Between the video and JR’s description, no way she walked out of his place on her own, going a different way than she came. But you see, when JR made up the story of her leaving, he did not know cameras recorded not only her condition, but also the way she came. I hope that someday they will reveal where she is, so that her family can get some relief. The fact that this has not happened by now, indicates how sociopathic they all are. no guilt, no conscience. They might rationalize that it was an accidental death. But tormenting her family this way is not an accident. It's too bad that LE and the FBI are taking so long to get somewhere.
 
That was an interesting read but you made a ton of assumptions. I am assuming if she was already dead, a dog would have hit on a deceased persons remains in the apartment. I also would think LE would have been much more aggressive if they had video of LS appearing “dead” on camera.
 
VeryVeritas said:
After Lauren Spierer’s last recorded fall, there is no indication that she ever was conscious again. Only the inconsistent statements from MB and JR claim that she was alive. CR had the convenient amnesia. JR's houseguest(s) statements are known only to LE (assuming they ever talked with them). It appears to me that she may have died right there after that last recorded fall. It's possible that she was alive but unconscious and CR had ill intent. That would be a significant reason to hide her body as it might contain evidence of rape. The story that MB gave about CR being in such bad shape isn't consistent with the video record of him or witness statements. However, it might have actually happened later; if for example CR decided to take advantage of Lauren, and she died in his room. Then CR might have freaked out and MB might have indeed called JR to for help, Only then does MB's story of mothering CR almost seems plausible. As discussed hundreds of times before, JR had no choice but to cover it up because it would lead back to him anyway. My first inclination is to think that she actually died after that last recorded fall. To me, the explanation for most of her things being found many feet away is that she was picked up and / or dragged over there. She was unconscious and since she couldn’t walk on her own, she either couldn’t get up or was dead right then. That would have been CR doing that. He was with her at the time, but why he stopped supporting her is noteworthy. If she went into cardiac arrest after that fall, she would have needed immediate CPR and 911 call. Assuming that CR was drunk / high but still somewhat conscious his actions might be delayed and his judgement impaired. That's the best case scenario for him. I think someone made the conscious decision to get her keycard and ID right there OR she had those 2 items concealed on her body like in a bra OR CR purposefully took those things from her earlier for no good reason. The fact that JR knows about those 2 items is a clue, a powerful one to me. I think it's most likely that CR had those 2 items, and that she died where those other items were found. Realizing that she was not breathing and that he could not wake her, CR brought her to or near to 5N and got MB to get JR. It is possible in the panic of that moment that MB did not know if she were alive or not, and CR were he not to have amnesia, could argue the same thing. OF course the obvious question is why not call 911? This is the whole problem here. They failed to call 911 and then when it became clear that she was
Dead, the cover up ensued. A fairly simple and fast moving chain of events. Based on all of the publicly known facts I think this is the most likely thing that happened. Some twists on it perhaps, like maybe she actually died on the way to 5N or at CR/MB's place. But I don't think she made it to 5N and not alive if she did. I think the stories of CR/MB and JR are contrived, calculated and orchestrated by JR. And so the idea that JR actually let her leave after all of what happened before, isn't believable at all. His own admissions of her condition destroy his story. Between the video and JR’s description, no way she walked out of his place on her own, going a different way than she came. But you see, when JR made up the story of her leaving, he did not know cameras recorded not only her condition, but also the way she came. I hope that someday they will reveal where she is, so that her family can get some relief. The fact that this has not happened by now, indicates how sociopathic they all are. no guilt, no conscience. They might rationalize that it was an accidental death. But tormenting her family this way is not an accident. It's too bad that LE and the FBI are taking so long to get somewhere.
Click to expand...
meh
 
george14 said:
That was an interesting read but you made a ton of assumptions. I am assuming if she was already dead, a dog would have hit on a deceased persons remains in the apartment. I also would think LE would have been much more aggressive if they had video of LS appearing “dead” on camera.
Click to expand...
You bring u a good Point. Because when she fell the first time, on camera, CR started carrying her half piggy back and the investigators viewing the video said Lauren was very much alive.

She was not unconscious during their wayward triP up that alley and I wish folks would quit saying that. An hour later, the bartender mgr. witness saw her talking to a man animatedly and it was THEN that she fell and hit her head hard on the concrete, according to the last actual eye witness besides the friends who then said she saw a man throw her over his back
and carry her unconscious Down THE STREET, not carry her
in the alley.

If you have not seen someone blacked out, you would not realize that they can function. Most of the theories blaming the guys are based on the idea that Lauren could not function AT ALL. Although there is no evidence of that.

DM did it. LE really effed this case because they focused too hard on the friends and he was able to kill again AT LEAST once, Hannah Wilson. His kill zone is highly delineated on our maP, the crime scenes and the DumP zones match for Lauren and Hannah.

I think it was Vidocq who talked to the bar witness or talked to her coworker, but deal is, she was questioned by the cops about DM after he killed Hannah. BUT! she was the bartender witness who 4 years before that saw Lauren an hour after she was last on camera fall and get knocked unconscious. How weird and coincidental is that, well...
3 years after Laurens BF JW moved away, Hannah moved right around the corner from where he lived, which is right around the corner, not even a block from Yogis. Yogis is where the bar witness knew DM from, he was a regular there esPecially on trivia night every Thursday night. This coincided with Thirsty Thursday, a sorority and frat bar crawl, which of course included Kilroys. where DM stalked Hannah back to her house from.. after she had a loud altercation in front of Kilroys with her friends in which she begged them to either let her stay mor for someone to go with her. also a trivia night there at Yogis. Lauren had an altercation at Kilroys that night, and they left in a hurry back to her aPartment where they had another altercation when her date was knocked to the ground and now they are back onto the street and into the kill zone. street. so.....IOW this DM also sexually assaulted, strangled and left for dead another woman who also lived in the same neighborhood! on our maP you will see his kill zone is tight, and also, his work was right there as well just maybe 2 blocks away or less..

So what we see here is a horrendous deja vu situation. In my mind, this DM was recreating murders from the same neighborhood . Because the same situations occur through the years, the drunken out of control student vs. the calculated and murderous stalker.

I could write a book about this, maybe I will. PS sorry about the bold tyPe and the weird Ps my keys arent working including the aPostroPhe lol
 
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I tend to 'flip flop' on this case between two scenarios :

1.Her 'friends' somehow being responsible

or

2.Her being abducted off the street after leaving the apartment.

I think both are good theories, but have potential holes in them also.
 
jetsfanjohn said:
I tend to 'flip flop' on this case between two scenarios :

1.Her 'friends' somehow being responsible

or

2.Her being abducted off the street after leaving the apartment.

I think both are good theories, but have potential holes in them also.
Click to expand...
I hate to admit that we’ll never know. But we probably won’t. I can’t imagine what never knowing must feel like to her family and loved ones. It must be almost unbearable.
 
Ixchel13 said:
You bring u a good Point. Because when she fell the first time, on camera, CR started carrying her half piggy back and the investigators viewing the video said Lauren was very much alive.

She was not unconscious during their wayward triP up that alley and I wish folks would quit saying that. An hour later, the bartender mgr. witness saw her talking to a man animatedly and it was THEN that she fell and hit her head hard on the concrete, according to the last actual eye witness besides the friends who then said she saw a man throw her over his back
and carry her unconscious Down THE STREET, not carry her
in the alley.

If you have not seen someone blacked out, you would not realize that they can function. Most of the theories blaming the guys are based on the idea that Lauren could not function AT ALL. Although there is no evidence of that.

DM did it. LE really effed this case because they focused too hard on the friends and he was able to kill again AT LEAST once, Hannah Wilson. His kill zone is highly delineated on our maP, the crime scenes and the DumP zones match for Lauren and Hannah.

I think it was Vidocq who talked to the bar witness or talked to her coworker, but deal is, she was questioned by the cops about DM after he killed Hannah. BUT! she was the bartender witness who 4 years before that saw Lauren an hour after she was last on camera fall and get knocked unconscious. How weird and coincidental is that, well...
3 years after Laurens BF JW moved away, Hannah moved right around the corner from where he lived, which is right around the corner, not even a block from Yogis. Yogis is where the bar witness knew DM from, he was a regular there esPecially on trivia night every Thursday night. This coincided with Thirsty Thursday, a sorority and frat bar crawl, which of course included Kilroys. where DM stalked Hannah back to her house from.. after she had a loud altercation in front of Kilroys with her friends in which she begged them to either let her stay mor for someone to go with her. also a trivia night there at Yogis. Lauren had an altercation at Kilroys that night, and they left in a hurry back to her aPartment where they had another altercation when her date was knocked to the ground and now they are back onto the street and into the kill zone. street. so.....IOW this DM also sexually assaulted, strangled and left for dead another woman who also lived in the same neighborhood! on our maP you will see his kill zone is tight, and also, his work was right there as well just maybe 2 blocks away or less..

So what we see here is a horrendous deja vu situation. In my mind, this DM was recreating murders from the same neighborhood . Because the same situations occur through the years, the drunken out of control student vs. the calculated and murderous stalker.

I could write a book about this, maybe I will. PS sorry about the bold tyPe and the weird Ps my keys arent working including the aPostroPhe lol
Click to expand...
Mothers of Hannah Wilson, Lauren Spierer believe convicted killer could be tied to more cases | Fox 59
 
george14 said:
That was an interesting read but you made a ton of assumptions. I am assuming if she was already dead, a dog would have hit on a deceased persons remains in the apartment. I also would think LE would have been much more aggressive if they had video of LS appearing “dead” on camera.
Click to expand...

Did LE bring a dog into the apartment? I don’t recall if they did.
 
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