In my right hand is the blue pill, in my left the red pill

[BBB167893]

I take it you're not much of a Matrix fan as I am?

Quite correct.

What would you say about a child that was somehow missing *FROM HER HOME* during the time her parents present in the home, and her parents were swingers, engaging sex w/strangers in their home, not necessarily in front of their children, but certainly w/knowledge of their children, and allegedly recreational drug use, and, in the child's house,

not a trace of forensic evidence left by this so-called intruder. No DNA. No hair, fingerprint, no fiber, no footprints, no sign of forced entry, nothing.

Danielle Van Dam. And you said it yourself: MISSING from her home. With two parents who did everything in their power to help the police instead of hamstringing them. Danielle's parents were never even seriously considered. There are many differences.

there are two older cases which involve child abduction and murder, w/RN left at crime scene, w/ at least 1 parent in the house.

would you say this is consistent w/the stated premises?

Yes, I would, and let me tell you why: because while what you say is true, there have been cases where SOME of the elements of this case were present. But there's only ONE where ALL of them were present, and that's this one. THAT's what the article was saying.

So, yes.

 

[voynich]

Quite correct.



Danielle Van Dam. And you said it yourself: MISSING from her home. With two parents who did everything in their power to help the police instead of hamstringing them. Danielle's parents were never even seriously considered. There are many differences.

.

Quite correct. Your insight serves you well. Bury them deep or they will be made to serve the emperor.

What Danielle Van Dam does show is that even in 2002, it is entirely possible for an intruder to enter and leave w/o a trace of forensic evidence.

"Danielle's parents were never even seriously considered."

But JB's were on day 1. And they should have been considered according to LE -- always look at the parents first.

The suspicion will be with you. Always.

 

[JMO8778]

re: manual strangulation,per Dr Spitz,JB WAS manually strangled by her shirt collar..*first.this indicates a rage attack..some one out of control.(don't forget Patsy slipped and said that JB was initially put to bed w the red turtleneck on).an intruder wouldn't care about changing her shirt back to the white one.this is something only the R's would have done.
I believe the garrote,like SD says,provided a spectacular,sensational means for her death..and a way for it to appear a parent couldn't have done it.But it also held another purpose,IMO..to account for the previous manual strangulation marks on JB's neck from the initial rage attack.

 

[JMO8778]

THe evidence in the RN do not support the RDI premise of a"motherly" interest using examples of "attache" "brown bad" but that of a young man schooled in "counterintelligence, attache, tactics, monitor, scanned, "

motherly it is,yes,when analyzed,it comes out to be the profile of a middle age southern woman.you've seen cherokee's analysis,so I'm sure you know this.Patsy was a journalism major and a fan of all things french,and those words would have been familiar to her.(Just as ADVISE IS).

 

[voynich]

No, they examine the lines to form an overall structure. That's far and away different from focusing on one or two lines to the exclusion of all others.



It's not that people are ignoring them. It's a question of separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were.



And JR just happened to be both. Would you like to read what some of the profilers said about the "attache" line? I can make that happen.



Now you're talking my language!



How do you figure that? That's not rhetorical, either.



And risk leaving handprints?

Incidentally, "wedding with death." I like that. I'd like to add it to the book, if that's all right.



I realize that. Sometimes I think you forget that I used to be in your position.

Uh sure, wedding w/death. Those ligature marks though would mar a picture perfect open casket funeral. They could have manually strangled her w/rope, then threw away the rope, rather than leave them on the premises and on her person.

The bigger picture IMHO is that a young teenage white male probably watches movies like speed, Ransom, Dirty Harry, can misquote them, allude to their ideas, was thinking attache so said attache rather than briefcase, denying remains for proper burial as a warning they would not have a picture-perfect open casket funeral, uses terms like scanned, electronics, countermeasures tactics b/c he's part of the DOOM and QUAKE subculture (as was Harris and Klebold from Colombine).

I've seen excerpts of those Colombine massacre teenager dudes discuss their fantasy of mass-murder and they even said they hope their killing would be made into a movie one day. That's what I think when I read the RN.

 

[voynich]

motherly it is,yes,when analyzed,it comes out to be the profile of a middle age southern woman.you've seen cherokee's analysis,so I'm sure you know this.Patsy was a journalism major and a fan of all things french,and those words would have been familiar to her.(Just as ADVISE IS).

You don't have to be a journalism major of a fan of all things french to recognize "counterintelligence, attache, tactics, monitor, scanned" and these words don't strike me as motherly or french (I don't know about journalism majors) except attache and I don't see anything "motherly" in tone, she dies, etc. Advise comes from Dirty Harry, Ransom, Speed. Journalism majors aren't the only ones to write w/ "who,what, where, when, why?" and other RN's of comparable word length also address these. If these movies were all French movies then I would agree. I don't see anything "Southern" as fat cats and gentlemen are used outside South.

I do think the vocabulary is highly sophisticated, using authorities deviations executions rather than simpler words. I am unaware that middle age southern women watches such movies or uses such terms.

 

[JMO8778]

Re: Star Trek,I submit this to you,Voynich.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one".

And so it was with JB's death.

 

[JMO8778]

You don't have to be a journalism major of a fan of all things french to recognize "counterintelligence, attache, tactics, monitor, scanned" and these words don't strike me as motherly or french (I don't know about journalism majors) except attache and I don't see anything "motherly" in tone, she dies, etc. Advise comes from Dirty Harry, Ransom, Speed. Journalism majors aren't the only ones to write w/ "who,what, where, when, why?" and other RN's of comparable word length also address these. If these movies were all French movies then I would agree. I don't see anything "Southern" as fat cats and gentlemen are used outside South.

I do think the vocabulary is highly sophisticated, using authorities deviations executions rather than simpler words. I am unaware that middle age southern women watches such movies or uses such terms.

the R's had a movie screen in their bedroom,and while I don't have quite that luxury,as a married woman,I can tell you,I get stuck watching,or rather hearing,male-dominated movies all the time,and they aren't really movies that I would chose for myself,if I were to care to sit down and watch one.I'd be willing to bet Patsy had to endure the same;I seriously doubt John was willing to always (and maybe even never) sit through a movie, 'chick flick' if you will,that Patsy would find interesting.

 

[JMO8778]

..but the note didn't say THE killing will be difficult,voynich.It said 'don't think that killing will be difficult'.is there an important difference?YES,imo.the note wasn't referring to killing JB with that line..it was meant to refer to bringing John down..thus the words THE and YOUR DAUGHTER were omitted,and quite on purpose,IMO.

 

[voynich]

Re: Star Trek,I submit this to you,Voynich.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one".

And so it was with JB's death.

Mr. Spock Star trek IV?

 

[voynich]

the R's had a movie screen in their bedroom,and while I don't have quite that luxury,as a married woman,I can tell you,I get stuck watching,or rather hearing,male-dominated movies all the time,and they aren't really movies that I would chose for myself,if I were to care to sit down and watch one.I'd be willing to bet Patsy had to endure the same;I seriously doubt John was willing to always (and maybe even never) sit through a movie, 'chick flick' if you will,that Patsy would find interesting.

chick flick -- hand me the cyanide pill :behindbar

 

[BBB167893]

Quite correct. Your insight serves you well. Bury them deep or they will be made to serve the emperor.

Too late.

What Danielle Van Dam does show is that even in 2002, it is entirely possible for an intruder to enter and leave w/o a trace of forensic evidence.

This one didn't camp out there like the IDI one is supposed to have done. Moreover, it also shows what REAL intruders do, just as the article says.

"Danielle's parents were never even seriously considered."

But JB's were on day 1.

To hear the Rs tell it.

And they should have been considered according to LE -- always look at the parents first.

Damn skippy.

The suspicion will be with you. Always.

Sadly, you may be right.

Uh sure, wedding w/death.

If you don't want me to use it, just say so.

Those ligature marks though would mar a picture perfect open casket funeral.

Not if it was properly dressed.

But I think you misunderstand me. To my way of thinking, PR didn't really care if the funeral was open-casket or not, just as long as there WAS one. Sorry for the confusion.

They could have manually strangled her w/rope, then threw away the rope, rather than leave them on the premises and on her person.

I think JMO's answer is the best one:

I believe the garrote,like SD says,provided a spectacular,sensational means for her death..and a way for it to appear a parent couldn't have done it.

The bigger picture IMHO is that a young teenage white male probably watches movies like speed, Ransom, Dirty Harry, can misquote them, allude to their ideas, was thinking attache so said attache rather than briefcase, denying remains for proper burial as a warning they would not have a picture-perfect open casket funeral, uses terms like scanned, electronics, countermeasures tactics b/c he's part of the DOOM and QUAKE subculture (as was Harris and Klebold from Colombine).

Unfortunately, voynich, JMO is right. The profile that was compiled fits PR to a T.

I've seen excerpts of those Colombine massacre teenager dudes discuss their fantasy of mass-murder and they even said they hope their killing would be made into a movie one day. That's what I think when I read the RN.

That could apply to RDI as well.

 

[BBB167893]

You don't have to be a journalism major of a fan of all things french to recognize "counterintelligence, attache, tactics, monitor, scanned" and these words don't strike me as motherly or french (I don't know about journalism majors)

I journalism major probably would know those, if for no other reason than studying war correspondence.

Moreover, all one would need to do is watch James Bond movies or read Tom Clancy books. And we know the Rs did both. JR said himself that the capture of JMK was "James Bond stuff." Now, I'm a big Bond fan, and it seems like every movie Q, the gadget man, will remark on "countermeasures" and the like. And Tom Clancy books are all about military intelligence and operations. In her unpublished book, LHP talks about PR's fascination with Tom Clancy books and how PR was trying to act like the people in those books.

except attache and I don't see anything "motherly" in tone, she dies, etc.

The point we're trying to make is that lines like that were just talk. Someone trying to sound impressive.

Advise comes from Dirty Harry, Ransom, Speed. Journalism majors aren't the only ones to write w/ "who,what, where, when, why?" and other RN's of comparable word length also address these.

Maybe so, but think about HOW this one was written. It's written the way we're taught to write letters in college English classes. It has a beginning address, it has a main body split into paragraphs, and it has a closing. There's more. Let me think of it.

If these movies were all French movies then I would agree. I don't see anything "Southern" as fat cats and gentlemen are used outside South.

I would just remind you that the profile JMO speaks of was not created by RDIs on our computers.

I do think the vocabulary is highly sophisticated, using authorities deviations executions rather than simpler words.

Now, you're talking.

I am unaware that middle age southern women watches such movies or uses such terms.

You'd be surprised.

 

[JMO8778]

Mr. Spock Star trek IV?

I believe it was the third movie..The Search for Spock.

 

[JMO8778]

chick flick -- hand me the cyanide pill :behindbar

LOL.it irks me, too.I would rather just refer to them as 'women movies'.

 

[JMO8778]

You'd be surprised.

how true,and who,for that matter,would think that women would be interested in true crime?but here several of us are..
my daughter is majoring in chemistry as a base for forensics...could I have ever guessed in a million yrs she would be doing that?? nope.but there she is..

 

[JMO8778]

If I'm not mistaken,JB's funeral dress had a high neck on it.(Deedee is good with things like this,am I right?) It was a used dressed she had never worn before,one which was to be worn in an upcoming pageant.I'm not saying Patsy particularly had that in mind while carrying out this crime,but the neck area isn't difficult to conceal,what with high collars and scarves and such,always being a possibility.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Let me be even more succinct: there is not one single thing that proves RDI. It's the combination of everything.

Very succinct, SD.

Thats exactly what I've been trying to say! In each kidnap for ransom case we've discussed, it was one thing that led to another, until finally that one single thing proved their guilt. The 'smoking gun'.

L&L: caught with ransom note typewriter
LaMarca: caught with ransom note handwriting
Lindbergh: caught with ransom money
Mackle: caught with ransom money

Even though the R's lived in the house, there is not one single thing that proves RDI. LE couldn't even frame the R's.

There's no 'smoking gun' even thought they lived there. If you ask me, BPD has done an OUTSTANDING job. Keep up the good work.

 

[voynich]

..but the note didn't say THE killing will be difficult,voynich.It said 'don't think that killing will be difficult'.is there an important difference?YES,imo.the note wasn't referring to killing JB with that line..it was meant to refer to bringing John down..thus the words THE and YOUR DAUGHTER were omitted,and quite on purpose,IMO.

You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!
​

I can see your reading. I'm not saying it is wrong, but I don't see it conclusively ruling out sentence as alluding to killing JB -- your daughter being omitted since it was understood.

You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing you or your daughter will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!


If PR did indeed write this, why wasn't she more clear in her threats on JR? I'd expect more from a journalism major.

You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing you as well as your daughter will be difficult.

 

[voynich]

Too late.



This one didn't camp out there like the IDI one is supposed to have done. Moreover, it also shows what REAL intruders do, just as the article says.



To hear the Rs tell it.



Damn skippy.



Sadly, you may be right.



If you don't want me to use it, just say so.



Not if it was properly dressed.

But I think you misunderstand me. To my way of thinking, PR didn't really care if the funeral was open-casket or not, just as long as there WAS one. Sorry for the confusion.



I think JMO's answer is the best one:

I believe the garrote,like SD says,provided a spectacular,sensational means for her death..and a way for it to appear a parent couldn't have done it.



Unfortunately, voynich, JMO is right. The profile that was compiled fits PR to a T.



That could apply to RDI as well.

Oh you can use wedding w/death You being a sith lord and me being a jedi, I'd prefer a duel to the death you can be a sith lord in a computer simulation, and I'm a Jedi computer hacker to help even the odds -- trinity, download the kung fu training program. thanks! I know kung fu. Show me.

Did the profilers look at PR's biography and reverse-engineered their profile to fit PR and then engaged in group think to convince themselves of its truth?

I forget who exactly but didn't some profilers say that JAMESON was a young male or something? There are numerous examples of profilers being completely dead-wrong, including the Unabomber (who was thought to be uneducated, and retarded) and DC sniper (thought to be white male)