Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[midwest mama]

Here is a pretty lame "Friendly" IDI theory (best I could come up with):

1) Perp enters the house at while Ramsey's are away on Christmas day, through the metal grate and basement window.
2) He is wearing gloves, has a brown bag with a rope, cord, a rag and a flash light in it. His motive is to sexually abuse JBR.
3) He hides in JAR's room, knowing it is empty and a good hiding place but also a good place to hear everything going on in the house.
4) Ramsey's arrive home, JBR and BR are put to bed and JR and PR go off to bed too. Perp patiently waits for all things to go quite.
5) Perp then goes to the next room which belongs to JBR. He leaves the brown bag and the rope in the room but brings the flashlight and the rag. Wakes her up using the flashlight to shine on her face. She is surprised to see him there and doesn't get scared as she knows him.
6) Perp says "Lets go eat pineapple!" They go to the kitchen, perp grabs bowl, spoon and pineapple and sets it out. No fingerprints on the bowl/spoon as he is wearing gloves. Either JBR eats the pineapple with her fingers or the perp spoon feeds her.
7) After she has had enough pineapple, perp asks if she wants to go down to basement for "playtime". Perp has already grabbed her favorite doll and blanket from her room so JBR doesn't get too afraid.
8) They go down to the basement and Perp starts to get pervy on JBR. Like stripping her, tying her and using a paint brush from the near by art supply box, to molest her. JBR starts to get really uncomfortable and before she gets into a full blown panic and screams, she is hit on the head with the flashlight and is knocked out.
9) Perp realizes she is still alive and makes the garrote using the cord he brought and chokes her, resulting in her death.
10) Perp is now overcome with guilt. He wants to leave the body with some dignity, so he wipes the blood with the rag, goes to JBRs room and grabs the first underwear he can find (doesn't care if they are size 12), returns and dresses her in them, wraps her in the blanket.
11) He now knows that if the body is found, he can come under suspicion as he is known by JBR and the rest of the Ramsey's and wont have an alibi.
12) So he heads up to the main floor, grabs a pen and a pad, and writes the ransom note, and leaves it on the steps (so anyone coming down the steps immediately finds the note).
13) Next he heads down again, tries to carry the body out of the tiny window and fails. Tries again by using a suitcase to get better elevation, but fails again.
14) Murder being on his conscience, he is not as steel nerved as he was when he entered the house. So he leaves the body and flees though the window and grate. Leaves doll in basement and brown bag in JAR's room.
15) Spider makes a web on the window corner after he is gone.


Feel free to blow holes in this theory. I don't know all the facts by heart so there are probably a 100 different mistakes in there. But if you can correct those mistakes by plugging in the correct facts, maybe this becomes a plausible theory.

Thanks for reading.

BBM re: item 3): Does this mean you think it could have been someone who knew JAR was not going to be in town at that time? If so, they would have to know the family, or at least JAR fairly well.

BBM re item 15): IIRC, the type of web was scientifically tested and proven to be made by a species of spider that is not active during that time of year in Boulder.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Christmas 1996:

Mama, do you have the one of her and patsy that morning?

I have seen kids with haunted eyes.. This is not one of them. She looks radiant and happy and completely filled with joy.

It is nice to see those pictures.. Especially after the rumor of there being no pictures that morning..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I have always wondered if Jonbenet got up herself that night. To go to the bathroom at some point.. maybe she wet and changed her underwear herself? Maybe she wanted to see the loot under the tree again and then grabbed some pineapple and ate it.

Just a thought.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM re: item 3): Does this mean you think it could have been someone who knew JAR was not going to be in town at that time? If so, they would have to know the family, or at least JAR fairly well.

BBM re item 15): IIRC, the type of web was scientifically tested and proven to be made by a species of spider that is not active during that time of year in Boulder.

And all that means is someone did not touch the web. Depending on the person that would not be too hard.

 

[Mysteeri]

I have always wondered if Jonbenet got up herself that night. To go to the bathroom at some point.. maybe she wet and changed her underwear herself? Maybe she wanted to see the loot under the tree again and then grabbed some pineapple and ate it.

Just a thought.

I have thought about this too in IDI scenario. And perhaps the kidnapping wasn`t planned but the idea came up extempore as JB got up and went downstairs. That would explain why a ransom note was not brought to the house but was written (plus the practice note) at the scene with the R`s paper and pen.

 

[Mama2JML]

I have thought about this too in IDI scenario. And perhaps the kidnapping wasn`t planned but the idea came up extempore as JB got up and went downstairs. That would explain why a ransom note was not brought to the house but was written (plus the practice note) at the scene with the R`s paper and pen.

Your post reminded me of the findings regarding the pen used to write the RN. According to Thomas the U.S. Secret Service determined the pen was "a pre-November 1992 water-based ink Sharpie". That pen would have likely been in the Rs' possession for years. I'm curious as to whether other "pre-November 1992 water-based ink Sharpie" were collected into evidence from the Rs' property(ies)...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I have always believed the plan was to take her. Something between the plan and the event of that night changed that.


I keep thinking.. 17 years ago just a short time before this on that day, They found their beloved Jonbenet dead in their home. I can not imagine the joy of Christmas and then being plunged into such deep despair.

On the sharpie. I have to laugh when people say it was THAT pen. How the heck do they know that? Maybe it was not. I have never bought 1 sharpie. I have always bought a multipack. I don't use them often so they last forever. What if they had just grabbed one from where ever and used it, and TOOK it, and that is why there were no prints on the one they found in the house. There is no way to know it was one sharpie or another from a pack.

There is a lot that people say is evidence that I don't see that way at all.

 

[Mama2JML]

Interesting exchange between Tom Haney, Trip Demuth & Patsy Ramsey in '98:

"21 TOM HANEY: And you're looking at 457 now?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. That doesn't look
23 good.
24 TOM HANEY: What --
25 PATSY RAMSEY: This looks like it's been
0506
1 pried up or something right here.
2 TOM HANEY: Okay. That loose --
3 PATSY RAMSEY: That wood.
4 TOM HANEY: -- a piece of the wood molding
5 or the molding on the window?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. You can see right
7 here and this looks like a bigger --
8 TOM HANEY: Close up of it.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: -- close up, yeah, that
10 don't look right.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recall when this
12 didn't look like this? Tough question, but...
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't remember, but
14 this is the first time I've seen it look like
15 this.
16 TOM HANEY: Or the first time you noticed
17 it?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay. Could it have been there
20 like that for some period of time?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Not, well, not -- I don't
22 know what you consider some period of time but
23 we, we had the outside trim all painted in
24 recent --
25 TOM HANEY: When was that --
0507
1 PATSY RAMSEY: -- time.
2 TOM HANEY: -- approximately?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, gosh, seemed like he was
4 there forever. I don't know.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Was it that year?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, no, it doesn't seem like
7 it.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: Not that year?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I mean, we were doing a
10 lot of painting in '94.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Because that was kind of the
13 remodelling time. I could probably look back on
14 the checkbooks or something and see.
15 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. And who was the
16 painter?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Jay Pettapiece.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, that looks pretty
20 fresh, you know, that little piece of wood
21 there?
22 TOM HANEY: It's kind of hard to tell
23 except at the bottom that kind of break it looks
24 like there's paint --
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
0508
1 TOM HANEY: -- on that?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes). Yeah. I
3 never noticed that before.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
6 TOM HANEY: And 438.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: That doesn't -- that looks
8 like the sun room door.
9 TOM HANEY: Okay.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Why don't you look at 439,
12 440 and 441. What's that?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Uh-huh (yes). That's
14 kind of pried into, yup, this doesn't look
15 right.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Now, do you remember that
17 being there before, Patsy?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Would you have
20 remembered that, like let's say for example John
21 Andrew, living in town, can't get in one day,
22 maybe he tries to pry the door or something. I
23 don't know that I'm just saying --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, uh-huh (yes).
25 TRIP DeMUTH: -- let's imagine that.
0509
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, that's fairly big, I
2 think I would have noticed that. No, that looks
3 strange to me.
4 TOM HANEY: The other thing if you'll look,
5 it looks like the bolt, or the dead bolt --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
7 TOM HANEY: -- kind of matches up with that
8 as if the bolt were open when the door was
9 closed at some time. Would the kids have
10 possibly in coming or going --
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible.)
12 TOM HANEY: Well it's not a double, double
13 cylinder deadbolt, I don't believe, and that
14 means you have a key from both sides.
15 TRIP DeMUTH: Yeah, it's not.
16 TOM HANEY: You have the throw on the
17 inside so if the throw was partially thrown and
18 the kids pulled the door --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.
20 TOM HANEY: As opposed to a pry mark.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: Somebody tried to shut the
23 door with the deadbolt out.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, I see. I don't know.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you ever remember anything
0510
1 like that happening?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you think you would have
4 remembered this, though?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. We don't use the door
6 much because see there's a plant in front of it
7 and so I can't imagine the kids trying to come
8 in or out of that door, because we didn't use
9 that door.
10 TOM HANEY: Okay. And the plant in front
11 of it was it there --
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Most usually.
13 TOM HANEY: -- most all the time?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
15 TOM HANEY: Okay.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Were you ever -- but did you
17 ever come to the outside of this door, would you
18 ever have been standing in this area to really
19 look at this door?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, you know, I would
21 walk -- there's a little path right out here and
22 I walked over, there's little gardens and, you
23 know, and sometimes I would plant flowers in
24 this little thing. So, I mean, I had occasion
25 to be in this area.
0511
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: And I think something that
3 much of a gouge I would have noticed.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it doesn't, you
6 know, it's not -- I mean, that looks pretty
7 fresh because it's not -- see how dark this is
8 and that looks like new, you know, raw wood or
9 however you say that.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
11 TOM HANEY: Okay. And so that's 438, 439,
12 40 and 41. They're all kind of the same.
13 The next, let's see, what do we jump
14 to, yeah, 577 and which is just a Boulder police
15 identification, photo identification photo.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Shows photos taken on
17 January 2nd, 1997. We've looked at these before
18 looking for an angle and we told you that
19 we would show you another one closer up and this
20 is where you see the --
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, what is that, a
22 finger, that smudgy fingerprint and stuff.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: And you're looking at 580?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: No memory of that?
0512
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Unh-unh (no).
2 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
3 TOM HANEY: The next, some more doors.
4 Now, these are 581, 582, 83 and 84. Can you
5 identify which door that is?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the door going to
7 the outside off the butler pantry there, butler
8 kitchen.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: So this one's upside down,
10 isn't it?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, that's what I was
12 trying to figure out.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Yes, let's do that. It makes
14 more sense.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: And there's some dirt or
16 smudge or something, but, you know, we really
17 truly weren't back in this area very much, so I
18 wouldn't have had much occasion to see the door
19 from out here.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: From outside looking in like
22 we're doing here.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
24 TOM HANEY: So you seldom, if ever, went
25 out there?
0513
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah."

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I know there has been a lot about the Christmas photos or lack there of.

I have exactly 2 pictures from Christmas morning of the kids. The kids were so excited that I never had time. And we were just in the moment.

I have never seen any issue with the lack of pictures that morning. I find that some Christmases I have tons and some I have actually none from unwrapping things..

 

[Junebug99]

I believe the intent was to take her also, something happened the perp panicked and left her. Ransom note was written while waiting for them to return home.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

When I look at the facts in this case, I see nothing that points to the guilt of any of the R's. Not one of them.

I have tried to see it and for me, It is just not there.

I see lots that points to someone else.

 

[Junebug99]

I agree, the trick is separating the myths from the truth, once you do that it's quite obvious that it was an intruder, to me anyway, and I don't like Kool-aide

 

[Mama2JML]

"Gastrointestinal tract contents. Although commonly referred to as stomach contents, this also includes digested and undigested matter within the entire body. The presence of food particles in the stomach and upper small intestine provides still another source of information to the pathologist regarding time of death. From an investigator's point of view, the presence of food on the table may offer some assistance if the victim maintained a routine eating time. When and what the deceased ate for his last meal is important information for the pathologist who will do the autopsy.

Various ingested food materials remain within the stomach for variable periods of time, depending on the nature and size of the meal. It has been determined through extensive research that under ordinary circumstances the stomach empties its contents four to 6 hours after a meal. If the stomach, at autopsy, is found to be filled with food, and digestion of the contents not extensive, it is reasonable to assume that death followed shortly after the meal. If the stomach is entirely empty, death probably took place at least 4 to 6 hours after the last meal. If the small intestine is also empty, the probability is that death took place at least 12 or more hours after the last meal. In certain cases the medical examiner will be able to determine the type of food, which still remains in the stomach, if matched with the last known meal. This can help establish a time period."
Source: http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/LOmar2007.htm

 

[Archives of Pain]

Hey, all. I'm a short-time lurker and new poster. I've just very recently gotten into the JBR case; as a fifteen-year-old I can't supply any memories of knowing about the case other than a brief mention in a Lady Gaga song. Having a huge interest in criminology, I thought it best to research the JBR case, especially since I find it so heartbreaking an angel like JonBenet was taken so cruelly from this world. I'm of the total belief it was an intruder and not the Ramsey clan.

I can't imagine JR, PR, or BR being responsible for JBR's murder. I also find it appalling how the crime scene had been handled, especially with the handling of JonBenet's corpse. I don't have the facts down a 100%, but here's my (very basic, probably filled with holes) theory:

The perpetrator was someone who worked with JR; perhaps not a close correlation but enough to know of John's recent bonus and award, along with some facts about JonBenet being a pageant girl. Perp hadn't had much experience in the criminal world, but still harbored a secret attraction to young girls. When Patsy had her daughter in a parade float, Perp saw JBR and started to become attracted to her.

Since the Ramsey's had opened up their house those few days before Christmas, Perp may have attended in order to get a good look at the layout on the home. He then began to plan kidnapping JBR, and in a rash act of jealousy, plan to take JR's bonus in return for the safety of the girl.

The night of the murder, Perp had been hiding in the house for several hours, probably having snuck in when the family left for the White's party. He may have found a piece of Patsy's handwriting and managed to make his own handwriting look somewhat similar to hers' in an attempt to move suspicion away from him, thus creating the ransom note that had resembled Patsy's handwriting. He planned on simply kidnapping JBR, but that didn't pan out, obviously.

When the house was quiet and everyone had fallen asleep, Perp snuck into JBR's room. JBR had met Perp at the Christmas open house a few days earlier, and thus wasn't screaming for J/PR when Perp woke her up. Perp woke her up and took her to the kitchen/dining room, feeding her the pineapple in a bowl in order to quell her complaints about being hungry (there was no evidence of him being there because he probably wore wool or cotton gloves). He then took her down to the basement and began to let his sexual attraction take reign of his desires. He used the paintbrush in order to have fiendish sexual fetishism from it. I also believe he may have taken pictures of her during and after whatever sexual abuse had taken place. Eventually, JBR must have screamed, which caused Perp to hit her in the head with his flashlight. After waiting several minutes, he figured no one heard the scream, and began to take pictures of her tied up in bondage before rigor mortis set in. He left her tied up as he did, along with duct tape having been put on her mouth after her death, then wiped down her thighs/vagina and put new underwear on her (he had prob. assumed the underwear was for her, not her cousin Jenny). He covered her up with the blanket, then left via the window (if indeed he had been small enough to fit through, though the window wasn't terribly small from what I've read).

I don't believe Perp felt particularly guilty about the murder; he just wanted to ensure he wasn't caught, and thus took a good amount of precaution after the murder happened. Feel free to poke holes in this; I'm not 100% correct on everything, I may have left something out, or simply didn't explain well enough.

Hope to figure out the truth someday... Little angel needs to rest knowing her story has been told.

 

[Anti-K]

Hey, all. I'm a short-time lurker and new poster. I've just very recently gotten into the JBR case; as a fifteen-year-old I can't supply any memories of knowing about the case other than a brief mention in a Lady Gaga song. Having a huge interest in criminology, I thought it best to research the JBR case, especially since I find it so heartbreaking an angel like JonBenet was taken so cruelly from this world. I'm of the total belief it was an intruder and not the Ramsey clan.

I can't imagine JR, PR, or BR being responsible for JBR's murder. I also find it appalling how the crime scene had been handled, especially with the handling of JonBenet's corpse. I don't have the facts down a 100%, but here's my (very basic, probably filled with holes) theory:

The perpetrator was someone who worked with JR; perhaps not a close correlation but enough to know of John's recent bonus and award, along with some facts about JonBenet being a pageant girl. Perp hadn't had much experience in the criminal world, but still harbored a secret attraction to young girls. When Patsy had her daughter in a parade float, Perp saw JBR and started to become attracted to her.

Since the Ramsey's had opened up their house those few days before Christmas, Perp may have attended in order to get a good look at the layout on the home. He then began to plan kidnapping JBR, and in a rash act of jealousy, plan to take JR's bonus in return for the safety of the girl.

The night of the murder, Perp had been hiding in the house for several hours, probably having snuck in when the family left for the White's party. He may have found a piece of Patsy's handwriting and managed to make his own handwriting look somewhat similar to hers' in an attempt to move suspicion away from him, thus creating the ransom note that had resembled Patsy's handwriting. He planned on simply kidnapping JBR, but that didn't pan out, obviously.

When the house was quiet and everyone had fallen asleep, Perp snuck into JBR's room. JBR had met Perp at the Christmas open house a few days earlier, and thus wasn't screaming for J/PR when Perp woke her up. Perp woke her up and took her to the kitchen/dining room, feeding her the pineapple in a bowl in order to quell her complaints about being hungry (there was no evidence of him being there because he probably wore wool or cotton gloves). He then took her down to the basement and began to let his sexual attraction take reign of his desires. He used the paintbrush in order to have fiendish sexual fetishism from it. I also believe he may have taken pictures of her during and after whatever sexual abuse had taken place. Eventually, JBR must have screamed, which caused Perp to hit her in the head with his flashlight. After waiting several minutes, he figured no one heard the scream, and began to take pictures of her tied up in bondage before rigor mortis set in. He left her tied up as he did, along with duct tape having been put on her mouth after her death, then wiped down her thighs/vagina and put new underwear on her (he had prob. assumed the underwear was for her, not her cousin Jenny). He covered her up with the blanket, then left via the window (if indeed he had been small enough to fit through, though the window wasn't terribly small from what I've read).

I don't believe Perp felt particularly guilty about the murder; he just wanted to ensure he wasn't caught, and thus took a good amount of precaution after the murder happened. Feel free to poke holes in this; I'm not 100% correct on everything, I may have left something out, or simply didn't explain well enough.

Hope to figure out the truth someday... Little angel needs to rest knowing her story has been told.

A Lady Gaga song? Now, I’m curious. I know of a couple songs that mention JBR, one I’ve forgotten and one by Princess Superstar: Keith ’n Me. What is the Lady Gaga song?
...

AK

 

[Archives of Pain]

A Lady Gaga song? Now, I’m curious. I know of a couple songs that mention JBR, one I’ve forgotten and one by Princess Superstar: Keith ’n Me. What is the Lady Gaga song?

...



AK

It's called "Dance in the Dark". I believe it's off her second album, The Fame Monster. I'm the verse goes something akin to this:

"Work your blonde JonBenet Ramsey; we'll haunt like Liberace. Find your freedom in the music, find your Jesus, find your Kubrick."

It also mentions Princess Diana, Marilyn Monroe, and other famous people.

 

[Junebug99]

Wow such insight for a 15 year old. I totally agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

 

[Archives of Pain]

Wow such insight for a 15 year old. I totally agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

Thank you very much! I try to do my best in researching a case. I don't want to sound utterly ignorant and I like to know all I can about a crime. My primary interest is more in serial killers, but I must admit the JBR case very much intrigues me, along with other unsolved child abduction or murder cases; i.e. Johnny Gosch, Amber Hagermann, Madeline McCann, etc.

 

[Mama2JML]

Thank you very much! I try to do my best in researching a case. I don't want to sound utterly ignorant and I like to know all I can about a crime. My primary interest is more in serial killers, but I must admit the JBR case very much intrigues me, along with other unsolved child abduction or murder cases; i.e. Johnny Gosch, Amber Hagermann, Madeline McCann, etc.

Welcome to WS!

The offender in this case may be guilty of other, similar offenses. What are your thoughts on this possibility?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe that this was personal, directed to hurt JR but I still don't believe someone could do this and not have some kind of taste for it. I still believe at this point there is a good case for a connection to Amy's attack.

I keep thinking about it being 3 days after the fact those 17 yrs ago, and how horrible it must have been for JR, PR and BR.

It is just heartbreaking.