Is inventing an imaginanny evidence of premeditation?

[KenoshaKid]

Wow Tweety, you give KC a ton of credit for being highly intelligent! I am not so sure I agree with all you have laid out, but it certainly is thoughtful and offers numerous ideas to ponder. I really feel she is too impulsive to plan everything this well. I think all of her actions were impulsive or evasive - and she grasped at straws for any story that might stick - making it up on the spot. Honestly, the only person who said they heard Zanny's name before disappearance was CA (IIRC), and I have a difficult time believing her. Much like her daughter - they both have interesting ideas about what "truth" is.

Didn't Rev G mention he had heard her mention Zanny?

 

[countzero]

KC has such a low self esteem of herself that causes her to greatly embellish her life style. I say this in the present tense because she has not corrected this image.

KC went through lots of internet searches looking for a ZFG who, if people went looking out of curiosity would find her and thus believe KC. Who hasn't done a Zaba search on someone they know? Come on fess up ...:crazy:.

KC just took it to another level. ZFG-nanny was and is an extension of KC. KC believed her embellishments more than the typical white lie we all tell. Our white lies might be "no your butt doesn't look fat" where KCs ZFG-nanny was all too real for her. Once the nanny lie started, KC just took hold of it and used it because she could as it has been stated here. When CA couldn't or wouldn't babysit, good ol' ZFG-nanny flowed from her lips.

So no, I don't think ZFG-nanny was used as pre-meditation. However, I do believe that once that car was found, ZFG-nanny became a use for blame.

:laugh: Dang if Trudy hasn't aged a bit. I want to know her secrets for looking so young.

 

[Mendara]

Didn't Rev G mention he had heard her mention Zanny?

Yes. Zani was made up on the spot when J. Grunds family could not take care of Caylee anymore. They told her they could not watch Caylee anymore and after pressure from them she agreed, but when J. Grund's father questioned her about WHO then would watch Caylee, Zani was born. It was a lie to make her seem put together and responsible. The lie then continued as she used the Nanny for many things.

I believe she really was planning on removing herself from her family and NOT ever allowing them to see Caylee again, she kept Tony and crew a secret from her parents and she kept Tony in the dark about Caylee - but the tide turned that day Cindy showed up - she continued to lie - until her brother told her that the police were going to force her to produce Caylee. She could tell her mother to kiss her behind and wait to see Caylee int he morning, but the cops were coming and they were NOT going to wait until morning...no...no

I believe Casey did research on the name Zani for REAL details to use to make her nanny seem real. I feel she found Zani on myspace or facebook - many Zanis. I don't know how she found out one of those Zanis was going to be at Sawgrass - maybe a comment left somewhere.

But she used that very real detail to make her made up story to the police believable.

I think when her brother told her she would be forced to reveal where Caylee was by the police it was at THAT moment she decided to say Caylee was taken by the nanny - the story then got out of control - because remember she tried to say that Caylee was FINE with the nanny. She told the cops that she spoke to her that very day and Caylee was happy and fine and not even crying for her. I remember Yuri NOT believing the baby would not want her mommy.

She HONESTLY thought the police and her family would believe the nanny took Caylee because she wanted Caylee for herself and wanted to teach Casey a lesson, she thought people would be searching for A LIVE Caylee and then just never find her - and oh well life goes on. Isn't that what Cindy wanted too? To find A LIVE Caylee?

SHE DID NOT expect people to believe Caylee was dead. When people started believing Caylee was dead or in danger, her story then changed to the scary kidnappers.

CASEY plays along and makes things up and she goes along. I can't wait to hear the NEW story to fit the body being found within feet of her house.

 

[Jolynna]

Didn't Rev G mention he had heard her mention Zanny?

He did. IIRC so did Annie. Cindy's coworkers said Cindy had been talking about Zani for about a year. One of the interesting things about re-reading LE interviews with KC's friends is that KC had mentioned Zani to some but not all.

I agree with Tweety that KC may have been fantasizing about the demise of her family. Let's face it, chloroform is overkill for a 2-year-old. I just don't think Zani was originally created as part of a murder plot. I think Zani was created to be a "Trudy".

 

[TallCoolOne]

I was always under the impression that a nanny either lived with the people who employed them or traveled TO them, not that you took the child to the nanny. I must be out of touch............

 

[Mendara]

I was always under the impression that a nanny either lived with the people who employed them or traveled TO them, not that you took the child to the nanny. I must be out of touch............

You are correct. Casey used this term "Nanny" rather than babysitter, to make herself seem like more than she was, basically to show off to people that she could afford a "Nanny" I bet she would have used the term Au pair if she knew what it was.

 

[Gma Kat]

I don't think Zani was invented as someone to blame for Caylee's death. I am not even sure KC was going to ever say Caylee was kidnapped. I think there is a great possibility KC was just going to avoid ever seeing her family. Her friends were no problem. They weren't paying attention to KC's mothering skills. Somewhere in the back of KC's brain I think she was hoping a miracle would make the problem of her mother go away if she kept stalling. Maybe Tony would propose and they'd start a new life together in NY? Maybe Mark H. would decide he was so desperate to see her, he'd send her the necessary airfare & she'd fall in love with him? Maybe the chemistry between her and William W. would ignite and he'd wisk her away with him somewhere out of Cindy's sight? So many possibilities...

I used to think KC was planning to blame Zani in advance. But, after reading LE interviews and the document releases, I changed my mind I changed my mind. There is no evidence of it before or after June 16.

I think Zani was invented by KC to explain what KC did with Caylee when KC "worked". KC couldn't tell her mother she was bringing Caylee over to Ricardo's house and letting Caylee share the bed. On nights Cindy was unable to babysit, if Cindy knew KC was taking Caylee along to parties, Cindy might make KC stay HOME. KC didn't want to have to stay home.

Zani had already been invented and couldn't be contacted and cross-examined by Cindy, so KC pulled her out of her hat when cornered.

IMO

bbm: ITA. I strongly believe that KC intended to move to Cali to be with the marine, never having to face her family again. She could tell the marine that he was the dad but that Caylee died in FL, and then tell her parents that Caylee died in Cali, or maybe simply never speak to them again? KC's desparate plea for "one more day" and her desperacy in trying to get to Cali to talk to the marine and tell him something important that she'd need to be drunk for, really points to a game plan of avoidance of the issue completely. Who knows how hard the A's would have fought to keep Caylee in their lives once KC was off "their" couch and out of "their" pocketbooks....

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

He did. IIRC so did Annie. Cindy's coworkers said Cindy had been talking about Zani for about a year. One of the interesting things about re-reading LE interviews with KC's friends is that KC had mentioned Zani to some but not all.

I agree with Tweety that KC may have been fantasizing about the demise of her family. Let's face it, chloroform is overkill for a 2-year-old. I just don't think Zani was originally created as part of a murder plot. I think Zani was created to be a "Trudy".

(bold mine)

Agreed! Casey initially invented Zanny for the sake of convenience only. One of Casey's few proactive endeavors. For the most part, she flies by the seat of her pants and improvises whenever she finds herself in a tight spot.

 

[Brini]

LOL, I spent a lot of time at Trudy's also. Popular gal!

I agree totally agree with you that this sounds more like an impulsive afterthought than premeditation to me. Let's call it the Trudy Factor.

GOOD one! I LIKE it!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[RR0004]

I think she learned to use Zanny as an excuse anytime she needed one. She was awfully convenient. If she was stuck at home with Caylee cuz CA wouldn't babysit, she would just tell whatever guy wanted her to come over that Zanny the Nanny was unavailable. If she was unable to go hang out with her friends, it was that darn Zannys fault for not being home yet! And, when she needed something to tell CA, then Caylee was staying with Zanny. Her friends and boyfriends asked her about Zanny because KC "used" her so frequently. They had no reason to doubt her. They actually thought KC had this cool event planning job and a Nanny for her little girl. They had no way of knowing KC lived in her own little fantasy world.

Ok...but the question remains...without corroboration from Casey that Zanny was a fictional character, who is to say that it WASN'T part of an ellaborate plan to "eliminate" Caylee from Casey's life?

 

[MissJames]

KC has such a low self esteem of herself that causes her to greatly embellish her life style. I say this in the present tense because she has not corrected this image.

KC went through lots of internet searches looking for a ZFG who, if people went looking out of curiosity would find her and thus believe KC. Who hasn't done a Zaba search on someone they know? Come on fess up ...:crazy:.

KC just took it to another level. ZFG-nanny was and is an extension of KC. KC believed her embellishments more than the typical white lie we all tell. Our white lies might be "no your butt doesn't look fat" where KCs ZFG-nanny was all too real for her. Once the nanny lie started, KC just took hold of it and used it because she could as it has been stated here. When CA couldn't or wouldn't babysit, good ol' ZFG-nanny flowed from her lips.

So no, I don't think ZFG-nanny was used as pre-meditation. However, I do believe that once that car was found, ZFG-nanny became a use for blame.

:laugh: Dang if Trudy hasn't aged a bit. I want to know her secrets for looking so young.

She's a 10 ;-)

 

[RR0004]

KC has such a low self esteem of herself that causes her to greatly embellish her life style. I say this in the present tense because she has not corrected this image.

KC went through lots of internet searches looking for a ZFG who, if people went looking out of curiosity would find her and thus believe KC. Who hasn't done a Zaba search on someone they know? Come on fess up ...:crazy:.

KC just took it to another level. ZFG-nanny was and is an extension of KC. KC believed her embellishments more than the typical white lie we all tell. Our white lies might be "no your butt doesn't look fat" where KCs ZFG-nanny was all too real for her. Once the nanny lie started, KC just took hold of it and used it because she could as it has been stated here. When CA couldn't or wouldn't babysit, good ol' ZFG-nanny flowed from her lips.

So no, I don't think ZFG-nanny was used as pre-meditation. However, I do believe that once that car was found, ZFG-nanny became a use for blame.

:laugh: Dang if Trudy hasn't aged a bit. I want to know her secrets for looking so young.

I thought it was determined that the searches were NOT done by Casey, but rather by someone after Caylee went missing (loads of info. here about that). The fact that they (CA,GA or LA) were doing the searches just verifies for me that they didn't have a clue who this person was...little white dog or no little white dog. Anyway, why bother to search for ZFG online if you already had her address and phone number (per CA)?

 

[MissJames]

It seems to me that very few, if any, people posting here give any credence whatsoever to the idea that Casey Anthony could have been plotting the demise of her family (Caylee, George & Cindy...or any combination of the three), days, weeks, months, or even years prior to this happening to Caylee. She may not have premeditated a specific plan of "how" to accomplish the acts, but, no doubt she had plenty of time to practice becoming believable as to escape any punishment once she accomplished what her goal was, which was to be set free to live the Bella Vida. If she could establish that 1.)she was victimized by her brother and father (Come now boys, save me and Caylee from these monsters -inappropriate touching by sibling, forcing his values down my throat father, and prima donna mommy), 2.)that her parents were highly adversarial toward one another (No doubt if they would turn up dead, that it was a spousal murder suicide due to domestic dispute-dang those household weapons), and last and probably her least favorite option, 3.)Giving Caylee to someone else- Adoption, Abandonment to Caregiver (but not that prima donna mommy-NO WAY, that would be worse than death for the poor baby), Euthenasia.

Casey felt trapped, and she was a pathological liar. All she wanted was to have a chance at a beautiful life, and as it turns out, she got one, but it only lasted 31 days.

I have NO doubt that a person who is 1.)capable of Nullifying a childs parent/child relationship with it's father or father's family (Who is Caylee's father again?), 2.) capable of Looting a vulnerable Senior Citizens bankroll 3.) capable of blatant theft from someone who is her drive their vehicle because she was without a vehicle,.....is very capable of taking advantage of a vulnerable child that would get her a ticket to Bella Vida.

Ok, that was a rant...but just because Casey is not as educated as some, she is very diabolical and dangerous, and I wouldn't underestimate her for a second. SHE is the CEO of her own life, just ask her. NO doubt in my mind that she planned on escaping to her beautiful life, unfortunately, the easiest route was through Caylee's demise. Thanks for listening.

I thought the question was ,if the Zanny story was evidence of premeditation. ITA that it's possible KC had thoughts of getting rid of her parents.I just don't think that's how Zanny came to be.
If KC did have a plan she did a really poor job of executing it.
She may very well have decided BEFORE she killed Caylee to use" Zanny took her" as her out, but because she had talked about a nanny for at least 2 years it does not rise to the level of "proof" of premeditation to me.More like coverup after. But I see your point and this is JMO.

 

[MissJames]

I thought it was determined that the searches wer NOT done by Casey, but rather by someone after Caylee went missing (loads of info. here about that)? The fact that they (CA,GA or LA) were doing the searches just verifies for me that they didn't have a clue who this person was...little white dog or no little white dog. Anyway, why bother to search for ZFG online if you already had her address and phone number (per CA)?

That's what I recall,also.I think it was concluded that the ZFG search was probably done by Lee after KC was arrested.

 

[tweety933]

Is there documentation that proves that a search for household weapons was done on a computer Casey had access to, and if so, where is the source for that?

Didn't some other murderous mother blame a person of a different race for abducting her children, while she was actually the one responsible for their deaths? Who was that?

Who would want to teach Casey a lesson by taking Caylee away from her?, and also be one that could still threaten Casey even after Caylee's death enough to keep Casey quiet?

Was one of those movies Casey & Tony rented about a child abduction?

 

[Brini]

:laugh: Dang if Trudy hasn't aged a bit. I want to know her secrets for looking so young.

Looks like she hasn't aged a DAY! I'm jealous.

Except-- she dreses so RETRO. :laugh:

 

[Brini]

I thought it was determined that the searches were NOT done by Casey, but rather by someone after Caylee went missing (loads of info. here about that). The fact that they (CA,GA or LA) were doing the searches just verifies for me that they didn't have a clue who this person was...little white dog or no little white dog. Anyway, why bother to search for ZFG online if you already had her address and phone number (per CA)?

And, it's telling that the grandfolks never tried to get a phone# or addy for Caylee's "nanny."

 

[Brini]

Is there documentation that proves that a search for household weapons was done on a computer Casey had access to, and if so, where is the source for that?

Didn't some other murderous mother blame a person of a different race for abducting her children, while she was actually the one responsible for their deaths? Who was that?

Who would want to teach Casey a lesson by taking Caylee away from her?, and also be one that could still threaten Casey even after Caylee's death enough to keep Casey quiet?

Was one of those movies Casey & Tony rented about a child abduction?

Well, Susan Smith blamed a black guy fro the abduction/deaths of her kids. That guy in NY who killed his pregnant wife also blamed a black guy.

Did Diane Downs accuse a black guy? I don't remember.

 

[Brini]

That's what I recall,also.I think it was concluded that the ZFG search was probably done by Lee after KC was arrested.

Yeah, I think LA did most of the "investigating."

At one point, CA waved a three-ringed binder at the media, and said she'd found something like 800 ZFGs, and was checking out every one of them. Or, maybe it was an accordian file.

I think it was stuffed with blank paper, but that's just me. ;-)

 

[Brini]

I thought the question was ,if the Zanny story was evidence of premeditation. ITA that it's possible KC had thoughts of getting rid of her parents.I just don't think that's how Zanny came to be.
If KC did have a plan she did a really poor job of executing it.
She may very well have decided BEFORE she killed Caylee to use" Zanny took her" as her out, but because she had talked about a nanny for at least 2 years it does not rise to the level of "proof" of premeditation to me.More like coverup after. But I see your point and this is JMO.

And, I don't think KC is that smart.