James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

[Noodles]

I don't think so, because if it was, he would've just released it on August 6.

Like a few other posters, I'm whining because there is no Kindle edition of the book. One to three-week wait for delivery at Amazon but B&N ships in 24 hrs. Still not fast enough! lol

 

[azwriter]

Jana, I'd like to point out that Burke wasn't a small child at the time of his sister's death. He was much taller than his little sister. There's a family photo around here somewhere (Grandpa and Grandma Paugh with the children) that was taken in a time period, December 1996, near JonBenet's death. The photo appears in the photo section of the Ramsey's book "Death of Innocence" just next to page 179. Both children, JonBenet and Burke are standing and Burke is much taller than his sister. In fact, in the photo Burke is standing next to his grandpa and comes up to mid chest of his grandpa, who looks to be fairly tall himself.

Plus of course Burke had already hit JonBenet by accident with a golf club years before...what did they do then? they called for help of course...if he'd accidentally killed her , they would have done the same ,

let's say Burke did in the early hours of the morning accidentally kill his sister...in order to do all that staging the Ramseys must have discovered this pretty soon after it happened....there was no reason for them NOT to call for help...it has been said by Kolar in his book I believe, that JonBenet was alive for at least 90minutes after that blow to the head.....so why would they assume she was dead after Burke accidentally striking a blow ???? they wouldnt they would have called the ambulance...like they did when he accidentally wacked her last time...imo

FairM, I certainly get your point when you compare the golf club accident to an accidental killing Christmas night and that the Ramsey would react the same: call for help.

But there is a different element involved with the Christmas night accident that wasn't there with the golf club accident: JonBenet's body had evidence of sexual activity. I believe this would motivate Patsy, especially, and John probably, to try and keep Burke's name from any part of the accident.

A report on an accidental death caused by her older brother? Yes, call for help.

But, catching Burke playing "doctor" and sexually abusing his sister which then resulted in his lashing out and hitting her once she screamed, in my opinion would definitely be something that would keep the parents from calling for help and would want to cover up. There is no way the parents would want this part of the situation reported. So, in desperation to keep this information a "secret" I do believe Patsy and John would take steps, dramatic steps, to hide Burke's involvement.

I have a feeling the "playing doctor" or whatever you want to call it, was an on-going problem in the household. Perhaps Burke had been caught before and was warned sternly by his parent(s) not to do it again. Therefore, I can see where Burke would react by striking his sister to keep her quiet so he would not be caught again.

It's just my theory. But I think it's one to be considered when you look at the entire picture of what might have occurred and why a cover up by the parents would be warranted.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Like a few other posters, I'm whining because there is no Kindle edition of the book. One to three-week wait for delivery at Amazon but B&N ships in 24 hrs. Still not fast enough! lol

I'm waiting for it to be available on Kindle before I buy it. There's always a discount on Kindle, and since the paperback is around $21, the Kindle version will hopefully be even less.

 

[azwriter]

I'm waiting for it to be available on Kindle before I buy it. There's always a discount on Kindle, and since the paperback is around $21, the Kindle version will hopefully be even less.

Oh yes, Kindle Fire. Me too. For me it's not just the reduced cost, but handling the Kindle is so much easier for me than holding a book and trying to turn pages. I'm with you!

 

[otg]

FairM, I certainly get your point when you compare the golf club accident to an accidental killing Christmas night and that the Ramsey would react the same: call for help.

But there is a different element involved with the Christmas night accident that wasn't there with the golf club accident: JonBenet's body had evidence of sexual activity. I believe this would motivate Patsy, especially, and John probably, to try and keep Burke's name from any part of the accident.

A report on an accidental death caused by her older brother? Yes, call for help.

But, catching Burke playing "doctor" and sexually abusing his sister which then resulted in his lashing out and hitting her once she screamed, in my opinion would definitely be something that would keep the parents from calling for help and would want to cover up. There is no way the parents would want this part of the situation reported. So, in desperation to keep this information a "secret" I do believe Patsy and John would take steps, dramatic steps, to hide Burke's involvement.

I have a feeling the "playing doctor" or whatever you want to call it, was an on-going problem in the household. Perhaps Burke had been caught before and was warned sternly by his parent(s) not to do it again. Therefore, I can see where Burke would react by striking his sister to keep her quiet so he would not be caught again.

It's just my theory. But I think it's one to be considered when you look at the entire picture of what might have occurred and why a cover up by the parents would be warranted.

Azwriter, you put very simply what so many don't seem to grasp about why the parents would cover for an accidental death. There obviously is another aspect that has to be considered. It is the death being caused by that other aspect that makes the fear of public knowledge so much more humiliating -- not just for themselves, but for their only remaining child. They had to know that the sexual part was something that would be discovered by the medical examiner.

JMO, but I'm widya there.
.

 

[azwriter]

Jana, I'd like to point out that Burke wasn't a small child at the time of his sister's death. He was much taller than his little sister. There's a family photo around here somewhere (Grandpa and Grandma Paugh with the children) that was taken in a time period, December 1996, near JonBenet's death. The photo appears in the photo section of the Ramsey's book "Death of Innocence" just next to page 179. Both children, JonBenet and Burke are standing and Burke is much taller than his sister. In fact, in the photo Burke is standing next to his grandpa and comes up to mid chest of his grandpa, who looks to be fairly tall himself.

No argument there, BR was quite a bit taller.



I agree she was struck in anger. It makes a lot of difference what the murder weapon was. I can't really see BR being able to swing the flashlight hard enough to cause that kind of injury. Could be wrong, but it seems more likely to me that if BR cause the head injury he did it with a golf club or a bat.



But if Burke did it, then the Rs, and Burke, will live with the fact that he was involved in death of his sister. They only thing they attempt to gain by staging is that the general public won't know he did it.

I suspect that friends and family already wonder about it, so what really has been achieved?

The staging tends to implicate the Rs. Life in prison is a pretty steep price to pay to prevent the general public from knowing that your son accidentally killed his sister.

There seems to be the notion that the Rs would do ANYTHING to prevent some public embarrassment. But I'm unwilling to go along with that POV. It seems to me the risk is out of all proportion to gain, and I don't believe JR got where he was by making fools choices.

I have to go to work now, so I don't have time to offer my thoughts on what would have happened had they simply called 911 and admitted that BDI.

I'd like to hear from any BDI theorist on what would have played out had the Rs not staged an intruder kidnapper, but simply called 911.

It wasn't just an accidental death of an older brother hitting and killing his little sister that would be reported on 911. There was another circumstance surrounding what happened Chrismas night between brother and sister. And that needed to be kept a secret. JonBenet was sexual assulted that night. And I believe Burke was the one doing the deed.

I do believe John and Patsy would go to extremes to cover up the accident in order to mainly cover a sexual insult that was done to JonBenet. And further, I think this is the center of activity between the two children that was going on when Burke hit his sister in order to shut her up so his parents would not discover he once again was "playing doctor" (or whatever you want to call it) with JonBenet.

Just my opinion ya know.

 

[azwriter]

Azwriter, you put very simply what so many don't seem to grasp about why the parents would cover for an accidental death. There obviously is another aspect that has to be considered. It is the death being caused by that other aspect that makes the fear of public knowledge so much more humiliating -- not just for themselves, but for their only remaining child. They had to know that the sexual part was something that would be discovered by the medical examiner.

JMO, but I'm widya there.
.

Well, otg you certainly have made my day. Thanks for the compliment.

As a parent myself, I can see this part of the scene would be a big hurdle to overcome, especially for the Ramsey parents who had such a remarkable standing in the community (If only in their own minds).

Yes, Patsy alone, as I see it, would be absolutely devistated that any breath of a sexual nature would be connected to her child. I also believe she would have terrible guilt that she did not manage to stop this activity by Burke before it lead to the death of her daughter.

Patsy was a Miss America contestant. She won the Talent portion of that pageant. She was a community leader, gave elaborate home tours. Was very active and visable in her children's school activities. She was well known and talked about in the beauty pageant industry. Her vanity stuck out in every line of her Christmas letters as she bragged about her children.

There is IMO no way she would ever allow something like this be known to the public about Burke. I'm sure she would do all she could to hide this from the world including a fake kidnapping and murder of the daughter she loved so much.

I can't change anyone's mind or make them believe my theory. But I'm glad to have an opportunity to express it.

just my O

 

[otg]

It wasn't just an accidental death of an older brother hitting and killing his little sister that would be reported on 911. There was another circumstance surrounding what happened Chrismas night between brother and sister. And that needed to be kept a secret. JonBenet was sexual assulted that night. And I believe Burke was the one doing the deed.

I do believe John and Patsy would go to extremes to cover up the accident in order to mainly cover a sexual insult that was done to JonBenet. And further, I think this is the center of activity between the two children that was going on when Burke hit his sister in order to shut her up so his parents would not discover he once again was "playing doctor" (or whatever you want to call it) with JonBenet.

Just my opinion ya know.

Just like to point out to those who still have doubts about the difference between the two aspects of this, as to which would be a reason for calling 911, and which would have to be covered up...

If you are of the opinion that JR and PR (for whatever the reason) are responsible for the staging, then why would the ligature be left on the body and an attempt at coverup be made on the molestation part (cleaning blood, changing panties, etc.)?

Kind of shows where the shame lies, eh?
.

 

[azwriter]

Where have you been when I have been trying to explain to Chrishope why it's not absurd that they would stage to protect
Burke if he did it? He needs to read someone else's perspective rather than mine cuz he just couldn't see it...

Here, I pass the baton to you - you take over.... On the 'Are the Ramseys Involved' thread, if you please.... Or at least provide a thanks

Whaleshark, I'll take that baton but I doubt I can win Chrishope over. I've added other posts here, maybe that will help. I can't prove my theory, only express it here and for me (and maybe me alone) what I think happened makes sense to me especially when you take into account how I view the Ramsey parents would react in order to cover up something so dramatic to their image and that of their son.

just my O

 

[otg]

Just one other thing...

Perhaps they (PR especially) felt they were protecting more than themselves and BR. Maybe, in their way, they felt they were also protecting the image and the innocence of JonBenet?

Just a thought...
.

 

[azwriter]

Just like to point out to those who still have doubts about the difference between the two aspects of this, as to which would be a reason for calling 911, and which would have to be covered up...

If you are of the opinion that JR and PR (for whatever the reason) are responsible for the staging, then why would the ligature be left on the body and an attempt at coverup be made on the molestation part (cleaning blood, changing panties, etc.)?

Kind of shows where the shame lies, eh?
.

Good question about leaving the ligature on the body. I would think there would be marks on the child's neck that could not be covered up and that would be seen during an investigation of the body. Therefore, leave the devise that strangled her on her neck in order to keep LE from making anymore searches in the home to find a missing strangling devise.

I think in their staging, the parents wanted to keep the cops from poking their noses in other directions. The less John and Patsy had to say, the less they had to cover.

Just like with the ransom note. I've always said it was like a blueprint, a reason why their dead daughter's body would be found in the basement of the home. And point the reason for her death in a different way entirely.

just my O

 

[azwriter]

Just one other thing...

Perhaps they (PR especially) felt they were protecting more than themselves and BR. Maybe, in their way, they felt they were also protecting the image and the innocence of JonBenet?

Just a thought...
.

Good point. She needed to be protected too!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Just one other thing...

Perhaps they (PR especially) felt they were protecting more than themselves and BR. Maybe, in their way, they felt they were also protecting the image and the innocence of JonBenet?

Just a thought...
.

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're suggesting but SuperDave has a theory about the case, and it's that the R's staged the crime with the ransom note and the garrote so JonBenet would die a more "extraordinary" death, instead of it being "just" a domestic unintentional murder.

 

[BOESP]

<snip>

as you say it's a word , but it seems to me that RDI don't want to use the word garotte because it doesn't sit comfortably with something a parent would use against a child..and to such effect as evidenced by the hairs being pulled out and the cord embedded deep in her neck.... of course it also doesn't mean a parent could not have used this...

I don't like "garotte" because it was a "ligature" and not a garotte.

Ligature strangulation and asphyxiation by garotte are different. Both asphyxiate but they are different methods.

 

[Roy23]

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're suggesting but SuperDave has a theory about the case, and it's that the R's staged the crime with the ransom note and the garrote so JonBenet would die a more "extraordinary" death, instead of it being "just" a domestic unintentional murder.

The big big problem with this is you have a family with no prior history of crime, abuse, or anything. They were a good family to almost anyone you ask. It is mindboggling to think that somehow they all decide to kill and descrate their daughters body.

 

[BOESP]

You mistake passion for promotion. Finally we have the truth.

If you would have been with us through the years of balony we have had to deal with you would understand the excitement and relief many of us feel to finally have a book like this

(Bold above by me) That's how I view Steve Thomas's book from well over a decade ago. I haven't read Kolar so can't comment on it.

 

[BOESP]

also,he keeps saying that he doesn't think there will be prosecution.IF I understood and feel correctly,he doubts that there will be one even if with new info...that leaves only one possibility IMO....9 year olds can't be prosecuted in CO

cause he could have said/thought hey,maybe one day the killer confesses or someone else points the finger at him>>prosecution/jailtime is still possible....but not if the one who confesses was 9 at the time of the murder.

You can't prosecute a dead person. That would be another scenario.

 

[BOESP]

The big big problem with this is you have a family with no prior history of crime, abuse, or anything. They were a good family to almost anyone you ask. It is mindboggling to think that somehow they all decide to kill and descrate their daughters body.

You don't need a prior history. It has to start sometime. That aside, accidents aren't usually planned and I think her death was accidental.

Oh yes, I almost forgot. There was a prior history of abuse. It was described as "chronic" in the autopsy.

 

[Whaleshark]

hi&#8230;.It's at about 92 minutes if you want to listen.
He didn't say it was "complex" but he did indicate it was effective in that it was used to "facilitate the strangulation" and that hair had been pulled out of JonBenet's head and neck , which was found in the loop of the handle and the cord....this suggests it was effective ..he also made the point that the cord was embedded in her neck...and that it was constructed at the scene and not brought in from outside..

as you say it's a word, but it seems to me that RDI don't want to use the word garotte because it doesn't sit comfortably with something a parent would use against a child..and to such effect as evidenced by the hairs being pulled out and the cord embedded deep in her neck.... of course it also doesn't mean a parent could not have used this...

So some of her hair HAD been pulled out!? Device effective to 'facilitate strangulation'.

Sounds tourniquet style usage to me - and proving the ligature and stick were not just staging.

but reiterating that I still haven't read the book or listened to the interview...which I will try to do tonight.... and I'll order the book as well.

No, I'm even revising this post. I knew that I saw a deeper circular twist wound at the back of her neck in the furrow... I have been saying it for a while now.

My decision:
Stick used as tourniquet to twist at neck and tighten the ligature. Hair pulled out of head and neck.
..So no, not a complex 'garrotte' -- a tourniquet to tighten and asphyxiate. Confirmed.

 

[Chrishope]

Jana, I'd like to point out that Burke wasn't a small child at the time of his sister's death. He was much taller than his little sister. There's a family photo around here somewhere (Grandpa and Grandma Paugh with the children) that was taken in a time period, December 1996, near JonBenet's death. The photo appears in the photo section of the Ramsey's book "Death of Innocence" just next to page 179. Both children, JonBenet and Burke are standing and Burke is much taller than his sister. In fact, in the photo Burke is standing next to his grandpa and comes up to mid chest of his grandpa, who looks to be fairly tall himself.

I do believe whoever hit JonBenet in the head did so in a rage. And possibly she was laying down and the person doing the hitting was standing above when they lashed out to quiet her when she screamed Christmas night. I do think that striking out in a rage can give the person more strengh.

From way back, I've been a BDI. I believe if Burke caused his sisters death, that would be the only reason the parents would stage a coverup to protect the person responsible and would not go to the trouble of covering for each other.

Patsy and John Ramsey had a standing in the community. They were wealthy and wanted everyone to know. They also were arrogrant and could not have lived with the fact their son was involved in the death of his younger sister. Even if the laws in Colorado at the time prevented a child that age from being charged or convicted in a crime of this type.

This is all, of course, my own opinion. But, I'm sticking to it.

PS: If anyone has that photo, can you post it here for all of us to see the difference in the children's size. Thanks.

I agree.