Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[FacelessPodcast]

And why would he do anything different now right? It’s been 23 years, and he’s arguably one of the luckiest murderers to date. Especially in Japan. Potentially sitting tight and cosy away from here and not changing a thing is in his best interests.

What you explained and the way you did it, rather than just vague, makes complete sense in the way you approached it.

I don’t doubt for a second the lengths the TMPD have gone, and still continue to, to find this man - but I’m as equally grateful for the Miyazawa family that there is someone as invested as you are in the case and pursuit of the murderer.

Thank you, @Incoherent. Appreciate that.

As for the TMPD vs the POI, it's very possible he's on their radar. But, for various reasons (tick your pick from socio-politics / international relations / a reticence for thinking outside the box), my feeling is that he's not.

 

[dotr]

He's not a bad-looking guy. Certainly, when he was younger, it seems he was desirable. And he's now married etc. When you say what about his family, what do you mean @dotr?

As for whether or not he reads here, I guess it's possible. It wouldn't shock me if he likes to stay up with the latest in this case (it would make sense for his own personal interests). Alternatively, he has blocked it out of his mind. Dissociated his past self / past actions from who he is today. I could see either being true.

Sorry, i did not phrase that properly, what i was trying to find out is, if the family he grew up with would be considered attractive, and if his own family now, ie. wife & kids, would be considered attractive?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Sorry, i did not phrase that properly, what i was trying to find out is, if the family he grew up with would be considered attractive, and if his own family now, ie. wife & kids, would be considered attractive?

I think so, yes. Certainly, the POI was handsome in his youth. From the sounds of it, one of his girlfriends was the Hot Girl in that social circle. He was successful and pretty much everyone I spoke to about him flagged up his elevated levels of intelligence. The flip side is that almost everyone also used the word 'arrogant'. (Others used less kind words).

 

[Janitor101]

I think so, yes. Certainly, the POI was handsome in his youth. From the sounds of it, one of his girlfriends was the Hot Girl in that social circle. He was successful and pretty much everyone I spoke to about him flagged up his elevated levels of intelligence. The flip side is that almost everyone also used the word 'arrogant'. (Others used less kind words).

I'm still reading through the posts during the first part of these threads, but I just wanted to ask a quick question about the clothing left behind by this killer. I'm not familiar with the Japanese yen. Was his particular clothing, shoes, etc. considered expensive items back in 2000? (I did read the knife he brought to the crime scene was expensive). I'm asking this because the killer bypassed scooping up other money and jewelry lying around in plain site and only took $500USD. Did he possibly live in a wealthy or otherwise financially stable household where money was no object? He possibly left most of his own clothing behind because he had some difficulty wriggling in through that window. (If that was the point of entry)

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I'm still reading through the posts during the first part of these threads, but I just wanted to ask a quick question about the clothing left behind by this killer. I'm not familiar with the Japanese yen. Was his particular clothing, shoes, etc. considered expensive items back in 2000? (I did read the knife he brought to the crime scene was expensive). I'm asking this because the killer bypassed scooping up other money and jewelry lying around in plain site and only took $500USD. Did he possibly live in a wealthy or otherwise financially stable household where money was no object? He possibly left most of his own clothing behind because he had some difficulty wriggling in through that window. (If that was the point of entry)

Of course, no worries @Janitor101. His clothes were relatively expensive, yes. Not like designer brands but his shirt, as an example, cost around $50 USD in the year 2000. Which is a not insignificant amount given the police think he could've been as young as 15 years old. His tennis shoes wouldn't have been cheap, imo. His jacket, from Uniqlo, was brand-new. The product run only began a few weeks before the murders meaning it is almost certainly not second-hand. On the knife, since writing that post I had confirmation from detectives that he did not buy it before the murders. That was someone else on CCTV they picked up (and only recently cleared). It took them all these years to find him. But again, that cost around $50.

We can only speculate as to his financial background (or that of his family). But in terms of my Person Of Interest (you'll get there later on in the thread), he was certainly in a comfortable place. I wouldn't say super wealthy but certainly not struggling by any measure. As for why he left his clothes behind, he kept his pants and footwear. The rest, I guess, he left behind because it was soaked in blood. I also think it's highly unlikely he left (or entered) through that second-floor bathroom window. Read on!

 

[Janitor101]

Did their PD ever request a criminal profiler to take a look at this case? Just curious.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Did their PD ever request a criminal profiler to take a look at this case? Just curious.

Yes and no. In 2014, an Asahi documentary was filmed and featured an FBI profiler. He was taken into the house, given the case file, invited into the TMPD unit. He told me that he was surprised to learn that, at that time, their best working theory was robbery gone wrong due to the killer taking money. His view was that the killings were driven by anger and that the killer was either in the family or close to it. Upon learning this, An Irie, the maternal sister sued the channel for defamation (I think?) and won.

 

[Janitor101]

Is it possible that the offender was riding through the paperwork searching for any correspondence that was specifically related to him? I agree with the posters here that believe he was mentally unstable and was a behavior issue from an early age. I also lean towards this offender being one of the students being tutored in their home, and he may have even taken a perverted interest in the young girl. It just seems to me he had access to the home somehow (through tutoring) and knew their routines as well as the layout of the house. Regardless, its possible Mrs. M. told him she would have to file a report of some kind as well as contact his parents, and he carried out his plan before she could address the issue.

In Japan, is LE allowed to go through a person's garbage if it is out by their curb? Just thinking about suspects who have refused to give their DNA samples over the years.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Handkerchief code

 

[Dr. Snoop]

A Case for The Bucket Hat

It definitely has more of an “old man” appeal since it seems that men of a certain age are the one’s to wear it, but it’s important to remember it’s ties to militaria, the outdoors, and even hip hop/streetwear.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

In Japan, there are no special rules regarding the admissibility of DNA evidence.

There are no special rules of evidence for the admissibility of DNA test results. The general rule for the admissibility of scientific evidence applies in the same way. This rule is not statutory but based on judicial precedent. It consists of two judgment factors. One is that the scientific test concerned has a general reliability, and the other is that the test was carried out properly in the case in question. The latter means that the collection, storage and testing of samples must be properly conducted.

 

[acutename]

Yes and no. In 2014, an Asahi documentary was filmed and featured an FBI profiler. He was taken into the house, given the case file, invited into the TMPD unit. He told me that he was surprised to learn that, at that time, their best working theory was robbery gone wrong due to the killer taking money. His view was that the killings were driven by anger and that the killer was either in the family or close to it. Upon learning this, An Irie, the maternal sister sued the channel for defamation (I think?) and won.

I feel IMO that he thought he should be in the family - like the abandoned step child or the child adopted out at birth... IMO, though a person could just have that sort of delusion. The looking through all the paperwork made me think that. All IMO. And I am not sure if some one were an orphan, and very unhappy, that a person might fixate on what they viewed as a happy family and be filled with envy and then rage.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Is it possible that the offender was riding through the paperwork searching for any correspondence that was specifically related to him? I agree with the posters here that believe he was mentally unstable and was a behavior issue from an early age. I also lean towards this offender being one of the students being tutored in their home, and he may have even taken a perverted interest in the young girl. It just seems to me he had access to the home somehow (through tutoring) and knew their routines as well as the layout of the house. Regardless, its possible Mrs. M. told him she would have to file a report of some kind as well as contact his parents, and he carried out his plan before she could address the issue.

In Japan, is LE allowed to go through a person's garbage if it is out by their curb? Just thinking about suspects who have refused to give their DNA samples over the years.

That is possible, yes. As for the killer being one of Yasuko's students, there are a few problems with that. Firstly, it's one of the major avenues of enquiry from the Tokyo MPD. My gut tells me that if the killer were hiding in one of the first places the detectives looked, they would have soon uncovered him -- particularly because we know they suspected the killer was on the young side. Another problem: I'm not sure sure Yasuko was teaching students aged 15+. This is very possible, I've just never seen that. Also, in terms of the killer knowing the layout of the house -- what shows us that he had any prior knowledge of it? The property is fairly small (at least by American standards) and it wouldn't have taken long for him to get the lay of the land. We know because of footprints in blood, he walked throughout the house all night. As for Yasuko complaining about a student, if this happened, it happened without her telling anyone beyond Mikio. Given she took her lessons next door at her sister's house, I would've guessed she might've mentioned it to someone else. We know, for example, that she complained to Mikio about someone parking "too close to the house." Logically, she or he must have then communicated that to Ann next door for us to know about it today. No such complaint was ever mentioned about a student.

In terms of the killer's mental stability, that is a black hole. On this I basically have no strong opinion. I can say that my person of interest was (seemingly) diagnosed with nothing at all. Whether they are one and the same, hopefully time will tell. As for trash being fair game for police, I assume it that it is. However, they're still left with the same problem: once they compare the DNA from the trash with the offender database, what happens if there's no match. Answer: nothing. That's as far as they can investigate his DNA.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I feel IMO that he thought he should be in the family - like the abandoned step child or the child adopted out at birth... IMO, though a person could just have that sort of delusion. The looking through all the paperwork made me think that. All IMO. And I am not sure if some one were an orphan, and very unhappy, that a person might fixate on what they viewed as a happy family and be filled with envy and then rage.

Well the TMPD have his DNA, if he's a direct blood relation, I'm sure they could've determined that? (I know this science is actually more complicated than that having spoken to people like Colleen Fitzpatrick but you take my point). However, I do think there is something to the possibility of his hatred of them as a family. Often people have guessed who is 'true' target was within the family, mostly either Rei or Yasuko. It's all guesswork but for me, I think it's just as likely --if not more-- that he was there for the entire family unit itself. His actions arguably speak to that.

 

[Incoherent]

Just on the layout of the house: it’s actually a fairly oddly designed house and rather cramped inside.

For example one thing I see a lot of people miss when discussing the case is that the kitchen and living area where the killer went to get the second knife is actually a floor above Rei’s bedroom and the bathroom, not below it. So rather than going downstairs and past a dead Mikio to find a new knife and then go back up again, the killer actually went up a floor to fetch the knife and then went back down again.

I wonder if he felt confused inside there for a moment and that’s what lead Yasuko to believe he had gone and brought Niina down from the loft, before he reappeared and then killed them both too. The layout as a stand alone house is a bit odd. Just some thoughts.

 

[Sillybilly]

From what I can gather, the limitations pertain to the public dissemination of DNA based facial images. As reported in the JT article Police still hoping killer's DNA will break 20-year-old Setagaya multiple murder case :


However, the police can proceed with using all currently available techniques and tools for their internal operations. I'm fairly certain they have already done so, but this information is not accessible to the public (or retired police officers.)

But, and the word "but" is very important here ... when reading the paragraph right before the one you quoted, it provides more context . The two paragraphs read as:

The killer's unusual DNA indicates a father of East Asian background and a mother with roots in southern Europe or the Adriatic. With only 2% of genetic material, scientists can develop a profile -- similar to a sketch by a police artist -- of the individual's likely physical appearance. The data can also be cross-referenced to ancestry sites on the web that might lead to other family members and trace the killer's identity. Widely used by law enforcement in the U.S., such science has led to the arrest of several serial killers.

But Japan lags behind other countries in these techniques, and in addition, the law prevents exploratory profiles of crime suspects from being made public. For authorities to make public the names and photographs of murder victims but protect suspected perpetrators strikes Tsuchida as highly inequitable.

<bbm>

IMO, this indicates that LE in Japan do not or are not able to use the ancestry sites to do genealogical cross referencing that is used by LE in the US.

 

[Charlot123]

To be clear, I want to understand him. I do not want to sympathise with him.

Having seen Setsuko's pain, alone in her 90s, at the loss of her family; having spent so many years deep in this case, my overriding emotion is outrage. If / when a second podcast comes together and if / when I set eyes on the POI (if he turns out to be the culprit) that is an emotion I will have to control. The temptation to make him feel a fraction of the terror the Miyazawas must have suffered that night will be very present.

I sympathize with Derek Rosa because intuitively, i feel what he might have been struggling with.

As to the Setagaya murder, he gives me only creeps. Anyone who can, in his right mind, strangle a six-year-old boy and viciously kill his 9-year-old sister, essentially equates to that young man in Ohio who killed animals in the pet store. Scary, sadistic and despicable.

(Which brings up a point.) @FacelessPodcast, among the people who knew your POI, did any of them, even, use the word "sadistic" or "enjoying the sense of control"?

 

[Vern]

I'm part wat through reading Thread One; what a case.

Some initial thoughts from me:

Bucket Hats - huge in 1999 & 2000. Hip Hop and Pop. Britney Spears and Justin Timerlake frequently photograped wearing many, many different colours/versions, and on many a varied occasion, of bucket hats through these two years. Japanese Pop Culture Moment: Britney Spears does a special showcase to release her 2nd album in Japan, "Ooops I did it again", on 02 May 2000. So, needless, bucket hats were very trendy at that point in time with youth culture.

My thoughts on the ironed hankie & folded clothing (as a military member): as a single and living in singles military quarters, even our underwear kept in the locker were startched and folded to specific dimensions (unreal, I know). Even after basic training, the singles quarters were subject to random, unannounced inspections so they were always kept top-notch for cleanliness, clothing folded & placed neatly away etc. It's a habit that still follows me decades later.

Entry to/from foreign nations. It depends on the SOFA (Status Of Forces Agreement) between the 'guest' nation (GN) and the 'host' nation (HN) (host being the country where the base etc is geo-located) that is signed off by both countries. Every nation differs. A single nation may differ in differing nations. IE: What the US has in place as SOFA in Japan may be different from that in place in Germany etc simply because the SOFA must be acceptable to both host and guest nation. In Germany, I landed at a civilian airport but utilized my Green passport to pass through HN which took probably 2 minutes. When entering/exiting on leave (non-duty travel) I used my blue passport and had o do the normal customs routine etc. Isreal/Syria/Lebanon I used my green passport similarily --- even when exiting/entering on leave. UAE: I landed at the military base ... no passport required to enter/exit even on leave (although I always had my green one handy); just my military ID. Likewise Afghanistan etc.

My initial thoughts seeing the hints given in the evidence that I have so far read about: Military Member or dependant who travels via the USAF base located close to the scene to through/via or to other USAF Bases on leave where they might also have been stationned or that are close to their families at home in the US (Mojave sand for example). The USAF also Operates Osan Air Base in South Korea which has direct flights for USAF members and their familes between Osan AB and Yoloa AB in Japan. I take this to mean that the OFA for both nations (Lorea and Japan) allows US military members to enter & exit directly through their USAF bases without undergoing the usual HN customs and entry requirements. These direct flights between Korea and Japan are called "The Patriot Express" which utilizes contracted commercial aircraft for flying but exit/enter through USAF bases directly.

I note that both Kunsan and Osan Bases in South Korea offers "Leave Centers" where military members and their families may travel to/from on leave to enjoy time off. There is also a leave center in Yokota so it's entirely possible that it was a military member stationed in Korea who went home to the US on course or leave, then travelled to Yokota to see the sights on leave, BUT I tend to rule that out given the purcashes of clothing in Japan, the knife etc.

To me, it's entirely possible that the perpatrator is/was a military member or dependant stationned in Japan who travelled back to the US on leave or course ('official' business as it were) and to/from Korea on leave (perhaps on the way home to Japan from the US) in the few months leading up to the murders.

Wound to hand apparently treated in a military style. We carry and use field dressings on wounds as an immediate first aid measure prior to seeking pro help. Kind of like slapping a large sanitary napkin over the wound, wrapping a long bandage tightly around the limb/over the pad and tying off the long bandage directly on top of the pad. The ensures pressure is applied directly onto the wound to help stem/clot the bleeding/preserve life. If the pad and bandage soak through with blood, we apply yet another pad etc on top of the one already in place and so on. We do not remove the old dressing as it may cause the wound to unclot and re-bleed. If this guy did that then continued to use both hands or pick up something with the injured hand, that know impression etc may have been recognizable in the blood print of whatever he touched or picked up - especially so if the wound was on the palm or sides of the hand.

May change my mind after reading more. @FacelessPodcast - you are a fountain of information on this case!!

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[Vern]

Holy typos batman. I can't edit now, but the knot we use to tie off wound dressings are reef knots (left over right and under, right over left and under). My assumption thus far is that the killer may have utilized her sanitary napkin pads directly onto his wound and tied off the bandage using a reef knot. Subsequently picked something up leaving a bandage impression with reef knot imprint which the investigators would take as a sign of possible military combat first aid training.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Holy typos batman. I can't edit now, but the knot we use to tie off wound dressings are reef knots (left over right and under, right over left and under). My assumption thus far is that the killer may have utilized her sanitary napkin pads directly onto his wound and tied off the bandage using a reef knot. Subsequently picked something up leaving a bandage impression with reef knot imprint which the investigators would take as a sign of possible military combat first aid training.

That's super interesting, @Vern. Were you ever stationed in Japan?

I have a question for you about the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC) program. Can you tell me about that? Let's say a 16 or 17 year old boy was enrolled in that while at high school on base -- what would that entail?