JBR Wiki

[narlacat]

Someone was definitely doing something to that child.

But is it the same someone that killed her?

Common sense must relate the two?

 

[sharpar]

Someone was definitely doing something to that child.

But is it the same someone that killed her?

Common sense must relate the two?

I would say its the same person ...otherwise what an unlucky child - two twisted people in her up close and personal life.

 

[clueless]

"Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen."

That difinitely rules out that she had a current UTI (urinary tract infection) or yeast infection causing the inflammation.

 

[Toltec]

When Patsy was told that JonBenet suffered sexual abuse, she quietly answered "I heard that.". Patsy became very upset when she was told of possible prior abuse. She would not believe it. She kept saying "Show me where it says that".

When asked if she or her sisters suffered any type of abuse, she went into this dissociative state...body language changed and her voice softened...like she turned into a child. She answered no. When asked if her sisters could possibly have been abused, her answer was "I don't know".

Now this behavior to me indicates that she did suffer sexual abuse as a child...and me tends to think it was Daddy Paugh.

This is my opinion.

 

[sharpar]

I agree 100% --- though I have no sympathy for her . She had the means to at least attempt to get right, instead she hides behind christianity, wealth and arrogance.

 

[rashomon]

Twinkiesmom - ( like your hat BTW ) you are right on the escalation of behavior, I am concluding that the abuse had been on going for awhile since evidence of prior abuse was stated according to some of the experts giving an opinion. I also believe the abuser was well known to JonBenet and trust had been well established long before any incidents occurred. Therefore, I stand by my opinion that the abuser was either a female or a very young male. I believe an adult male abuser who was capable of murder wouldnt stop at a digit.

Good point Sharpar. From what others posted here, Patsy became very evasive when asked if she or her sisters had ever been abused. Also, Nedra Paugh's strange comment that it is possible that JB was "a little abused" sends chills down my spine. What kind of warped family was that, where abuse was obviously downplayed?

I'm begining to think it is possible that Patsy herself might have abused JB. But if it was so, John's behavior is enigmatic to me. For it would mean that this man has been covering up for his wife who not only molested, but also killed his daughter. What are John's motives for covering up if he was in no way involved in this himself? Is public image so important for these people that they would do anything to keep it up? Or did he take part in the cover-up for Burke's sake, to spare the boy having to realize that his own mother molested and killed his sister?

 

[Paradox]

When asked if she or her sisters suffered any type of abuse, she went into this dissociative state...body language changed and her voice softened...like she turned into a child.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I too think Patsy is dissociative.

We are a group of individuals ...
We didn't mean for this to happen ...

We, ad nauseum. Patsy the overachiever needs the group to get things done. One of them got out of hand.

 

[Paradox]

Also, Nedra Paugh's strange comment that it is possible that JB was "a little abused" sends chills down my spine.

Nedra was the first domino.

I'm begining to think it is possible that Patsy herself might have abused JB. But if it was so, John's behavior is enigmatic to me. For it would mean that this man has been covering up for his wife who not only molested, but also killed his daughter. What are John's motives for covering up if he was in no way involved in this himself? Is public image so important for these people that they would do anything to keep it up?

Patsy used/abused JonBenet in the pageants and in the photo sessions. That pattern expanded and escalated.

John's personal, self image is what is important to him. If he was to admit to himself what his wife did, his life would be a total failure. The Greeks called it hybris.The Greeks didn't have lawyers to prevent Icarus from falling.

 

[sharpar]

Rashoman - thank you for the compliment.

I think John is basically a wimp who allowed his wife to " run the show "
he allowed her to do what she wanted as a path of least resistance. It didnt matter to him and allowed him to indulge his interests.
John may well be more afraid of his wife's behavior or reaction than the police or the public.

With these people not accepting any responsibility for what they do, seems to be the dominant dymanic. I am always reminded of the observation from Nick in the Great Gatsby concerning Tom and Daisy. I am paraphrasing it They create a mess and then retreat into their vast wealth and carelessness.

John does not seem to me to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I also think he was basically absent from his marriage and at most had a walk on role in his children's life. Living in a state of denial, it allows you to spend hours at the airport on christmas eve instead of helping your daughter ride her bike and excuses vast array of self involved behaviour and justifications. While in denial you can claim to be the victimized even though its your child who is dead.

I dont see much in the way of any real concern for the kids ... they seem to forget about Burke regularly. He was the less favored child by their own stories from their own mouths.

I have little doubt that Patsy is guilty of abuse, murder and obstruction of justice.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<Therefore, I stand by my opinion that the abuser was either a female or a very young male. I believe an adult male abuser who was capable of murder wouldnt stop at a digit. >>

Again, I think you have confused the pattern of behavior of a child predator (kidnap, rape, murder) with that of a familial-type child molestor (win trust, seduce, molest).

If it was a family member or close family friend who was the perp, he would not rape a small child via intercourse. He would wait until the child was at least prepubescent to build the trust and for the child to grow large enough to not leave visible damage. He doesn't want to get ratted out, and he doesn't want the child to land in a hospital. He's also deluding himself over the course of many years that his behavior is not abnormal.

I don't understand why you and everyone else is giving JR a pass. I am not convinced PR is the perp other than involved in coverup. Statistics bear out that a male should be the perpetrator in this case.

Yes, I am not enamored of PR and can see that she's basically nuts. But every woman I've known (and there are quite a few) who is an abuse victim has acted nuts. And I think you can exhibit a lot of histrionics without being the one in the family who is really the sick one. I think what we are seeing in her is the result of abuse rather than the cause of it.

Those of you who think JR is a dolt have missed the mark entirely. This is a man with high intelligence who has started several businesses and is a self-made millionaire. We have someone of that stature in our family, and he is generally clueless about his kids, so that doesn't surprise me about JR.

I just wonder if JR has been acquitted in the media and on the message boards because that's what his large spin team wants us to think. I do not believe JR loves PR enough to cover for her if she were the sole perpetrator of this crime. I think he loves himself too much for that.

 

[sharpar]

I dont think I am missing the mark at all - I believe he had no interest in his wife or his children except as appropriate accessories in his life. Having business savy is a whole different area than intelligence. Almost perfect morons can achieve business success-- just look at some ceo's and boards....
nuff said.
Again - proven fact overwhelmingly abused who dont seek treatment will find someone or something to abuse . They are psychologically compelled almost. One of many quirks of our common traits as humans.
Patsy was the abusive one, John was the one driven by image and social
standing.

JMO

 

[Paradox]

Patsy was the abusive one, John was the one driven by image and social
standing.

JMO

I think John had a bar reaching thing, trying to live up to the bar that his father set.

I think Patsy had a fractured identity having been abused by her mother. And I don't mean sexually. Patsy was prone to multiple personality disorder as many abused females are.

IMO

 

[Eagle1]

....... I believe an adult male abuser who was capable of murder wouldnt stop at a digit. It is my opinion and you may choose to disagree. That's fine wth me.

If you're right, this could have been an adult male, because he didn't stop with a digit, used the jagged end of the paint brush.

IMO that was extremely angry and sadistic. Whoever did it had to know how it would hurt. I have always had the opinion she was molested at the party on the 23rd by someone telling her she was so pretty he couldn't resist, and that she tried to call 911. He evidently knew from that occasion that even if he was caught or she told, in the 48 hrs she had in which to tell, that nobody would do anything to him, as they didn't at that party. S. Stine turned away police at the door, as if maybe they would have all been in trouble if investigated. Internet posters have revealed that FW's mother was partying somewhere the night of the 23rd, not in a hospital as he I believe claimed.

 

[sharpar]

The only person known to have had a problem with JonBenet was her mother. Also she owned the paint brush ... all the staging made this confusing but when you look at it simply her mother had a problem with her daughter on multiple levels . The paintbrush was used because it would hurt
and this whole thing was about pain and punishment but also establishing control and power. I believe JB comment was a result of some hateful hurtful thing said to her by her mother either at the party or on the way there . Its not to hard to believe that Patsy would lash out at her for refusing to dress like mommy but the biggest sin was not doing what mommy wanted.

I find the pedophile / intruder things implausible and same with photographer
this was an angry mother who " showed " her daughter who was in control and who had power over her and then went to eleborate lenghts to misdirect everyone including her own living in denial husband.
Most people have a difficult time believing abusive mothers particularily when they seem to have a good life and posture and LIE and cover up .
Patsy did this ...no one else was involved in the crime though I believe
John stepped in to help with the cover up. JMO

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I agree with you 100%, sharpar. I believe PR was totally capable of being the perp, and is the most likely candidate out of the three Ramsey family members. There's absolutely no way this was an intruder, and the photographer idea just doesn't hold up.

In my opinion, this crime and the cover up including ridiculous ransom note reek of Patsy and her domination issues all the way. I have no problem believing she had been molesting JB previously and on the night she died (perhaps as some twisted form of punishment.) I think JR stepped in to help with the cover up after the fact, when the only thing he could do was try to save his family since JB was already gone.

 

[aussiesheila]

Again, I think you have confused the pattern of behavior of a child predator (kidnap, rape, murder) with that of a familial-type child molestor (win trust, seduce, molest).

If it was a family member or close family friend who was the perp, he would not rape a small child via intercourse. He would wait until the child was at least prepubescent to build the trust and for the child to grow large enough to not leave visible damage. He doesn't want to get ratted out, and he doesn't want the child to land in a hospital. He's also deluding himself over the course of many years that his behavior is not abnormal.

I don't understand why you and everyone else is giving JR a pass. I am not convinced PR is the perp other than involved in coverup. Statistics bear out that a male should be the perpetrator in this case.

Yes, I am not enamored of PR and can see that she's basically nuts. But every woman I've known (and there are quite a few) who is an abuse victim has acted nuts. And I think you can exhibit a lot of histrionics without being the one in the family who is really the sick one. I think what we are seeing in her is the result of abuse rather than the cause of it.

Those of you who think JR is a dolt have missed the mark entirely. This is a man with high intelligence who has started several businesses and is a self-made millionaire. We have someone of that stature in our family, and he is generally clueless about his kids, so that doesn't surprise me about JR.

I just wonder if JR has been acquitted in the media and on the message boards because that's what his large spin team wants us to think. I do not believe JR loves PR enough to cover for her if she were the sole perpetrator of this crime. I think he loves himself too much for that.

I think you have made a lot of excellent points in this post twinkiesmom (ie everything you say is in agreement with what I think).

Your point about the two types of child molesters is interesting. I think JonBenet was being abused by the familial-type child molestor (win trust, seduce, molest) and had been for many years. I think that on the night she was murdered they had allowed someone new to join their group who was of the child predator (kidnap, rape, murder) type, although they did not realise this. I think it was was one of the regular abusers who pulled the ligature tight in sheer panic at the moment of the scream. I think it was the newcomer who brought the stun gun and picked up a baseball bat and clubbed her over the head in a rage moments after she screamed.

I think you have described the type of pedophile who had been abusing JonBenet for years (and I believe there were more than one) very well.

I think what you say about Patsy is totally accurate. I also think what you say about John Ramsey's inteligence and his relationship with his family is spot on. My one and only, but big disagreement with you is where you imply that he was the one who was abusing JonBenet. I completely disagree with this. No evidence has ever come to light that this might be the case. He was thoroughly investigated by the BPD in this regard and they were unable to come up with anything on him, and this in spite of the fact that they were desperately intent on doing so.

 

[Toltec]

According to Linda Hoffman Pugh, JonBenet had not wet the bed for six months...but then she began wetting the bed one month before her death.

Something was going on with JonBenet during the month of December that caused her to regress in her bedwetting. Sexual abuse? I believe so.

There was one comment Patsy made that sent shivers down my spine. She was speaking of a neighborhood boy that JonBenet had a crush on. He was older than Burke and Patsy said the boy made JonBenet blush...and Patsy said that she had to keep her eyes on JonBenet.

HUH?

 

[sharkeyes]

Patsy had many issues and while she was an indulgent mother I dont think she was a good one. Everything is always about her, its all about status, image and an overblown arrogance that is out of proportion. She claimed christianity but seems to ignore all of its tenets.
I see little evidence that JonBenet was a person in her own right, who was allowed to simply be a normal child and alot that she was merely a reflection of The divine P ................ JMO

Excellent observation! I agree 100%!