Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[Eunoia]

welcome Eunoia! :cheer:

more thoughts about the gun:

I was thinking last night (when I was *trying* to sleep hahaha) about the gun:

how does she hold the gun and shoot it with one hand (the camera was in her right hand)

(that is also another reason why I think the shot came last)

Thank you for the warm welcome, Nurse!!! I think it would be a lot easier to shoot a gun than stab someone with a camera in your hand. She is left handed but I am right handed and I think, at close range, I could shoot a gun with my left hand.... however... it could be as simple as her switching hands and grabbing the gun.

Honestly, if she shot him in the head last... after slitting his throat... she is definitely a hateful monster.

Not that she has the ability to think rationally, but why use the gun? If he is already dead... why shoot him and tie yourself to the body even more?

I really believe that she shot him and when he didn't die immediately she freaked the heck out and went to get a knife.

If she wanted to kill him, wouldn't she use the gun first? Isn't that the logical move to make? Except she sucks at everything and couldn't even use the gun properly.

 

[shantastic]

Hello! Newbie here (although I had been lurking before being granted membership by the Websleuths Gods)!

Here is why I think TA was shot first: this is the easiest way for her to overpower him. We know she specifically brought a gun to his house. I think there would be more defensive wounds on his hands had she attacked with the knife first. It didn't go as planned and she proceeded to get the knife and finish her mission.

 

[Eunoia]

Hello! Newbie here (although I had been lurking before being granted membership by the Websleuths Gods)!

Here is why I think TA was shot first: this is the easiest way for her to overpower him. We know she specifically brought a gun to his house. I think there would be more defensive wounds on his hands had she attacked with the knife first. It didn't go as planned and she proceeded to get the knife and finish her mission.

Hahaha at the Websleuth gods! I was deemed worthy of membership after bothering long enough.

I agree with you, Shan. Why on earth would someone try to attack someone, bigger than them, with a knife first? I know she is a real "special" person... but I don't believe she is that "special". She planned on killing him with the gun. Like the movies, she expected him to just fall right over and die. When he didn't and probably even talked after she shot him. I picture him moaning in pain a lot and maybe even asking "why". She definitely freaked out and wanted to make sure he was dead. That would explain the slashing of the throat... which I believe she did last. Yes, she stabbed him in the heart. She aimed for it... but there was no way of telling if she hit it or not.

This was no graceful murder at all.

What truly amazes me is how graceful and un-rattled she was about the whole thing afterwards. She was able to go make out with some guy right afterwards.

 

[KatFish]

I do believe she shot him first, but I don't think she shot him then went to get the gun. The timestamps on the pics don't really allow for much time to fetch a gun. I take it that she would have to run downstairs. She had to have had the knife at the time she was taking the final pictures. If she had a gun, why get have knife handy? She had to have already had it? I can see how it would appear that she stuck him with the knife first, but it doesn't make sense to have both. I guess I don't think like her.

 

[ERRN1313]

Having been reading on the main thread all morning, I am willing to change my vote! The pictures of Travis seated in the shower would give perfect angle for the shot to the forehead - Jodi above him and looking down as Travis looks up. The angle would most likely do what other posters suggested and miss the brain completely and go through the sinus to the cheek, especially with the small caliber, I forgot about. With this scenario, I can absolutely believe the shot came first, and he was still able to make his way out of the shower and the stabbing began. (Thank you to the posters who brought this out!)

Just want to say, I don't post much because a lot of the time I am reading at work (yes, I'm one of those), and I forget what I wanted to say by the time I get home, just thanks to all for keeping this going. (And for all the laughs I had over the "nasty" pictures!) I do so much enjoy this board!

 

[TaRazza]

My feeling is that Arias stabbed Travis in the shower first. Her reasoning might have been that the water would wash away the blood while hoping that he just lie down and die. This didn't happen as she expected.

I'm not entirely sure that Travis KNEW he was being photographed while taking a shower. In the photos, except for what appears to be the final one of him alive (the haunted look), the glass shower door appears to be closed. In the photos prior to this, he doesn't look like he is posing to me, just a guy having a shower. Maybe he wasn't even aware she was in the bathroom a few feet away snapping photos with his camera? He might not know if the flash was off--and probably wouldn't hear the camera noises over the running water. I dunno, just a gut feeling. Perhaps he assumed she had already left his residence? From the pants-foot photo of her dragging him/slitting his throat, she is already dressed.

(Not that I believe a word she says, but in one of the interviews with Det. Flores, Arias made it clear Travis wouldn't allow his picture taken in the shower. Maybe she took those photos (with his brand new camera, no less) to upset/anger him, perhaps trying goad him on, to create a basis for self-defense...or maybe to keep as macabre souvenirs/trophies? Thought I heard her say that he wanted her to take pictures of him while he showered because he'd been working out. Another of her many, many contradictions. Again, there was a lot more going on here than a run-of-the-mill photo shoot (MHO).

After she stabbed him in the shower (I'm assuming in the chest or neck area), he was able to get out of the shower and stagger to the sink. His blood and spittle is later found on the sink and mirror. Arias continues stabbing him in the back. He turns to defend himself as shown by the defensive wounds on his hands. He moves toward the bedroom to get away from her, to call for help, etc. and she is furiously stabbing and slashing all the way. He collapses on his stomach; she slits his throat, then rolls him over and drags him back to the bathroom. He's dying at this point, but not fast enough to suit her, so she shoots him in the head, the coup d'etat.

I feel that she then pulled him into the shower. The water is still running. She crams him in there, closes the shower door and proceeds to clean up to erase any evidence that she was there. Then she leaves and continues on like nothing ever happened. She committed this crime (maybe not in the order/sequence I have described) but with apparently no conscience/remorse at all.

 

[Eunoia]

Having been reading on the main thread all morning, I am willing to change my vote! The pictures of Travis seated in the shower would give perfect angle for the shot to the forehead - Jodi above him and looking down as Travis looks up. The angle would most likely do what other posters suggested and miss the brain completely and go through the sinus to the cheek, especially with the small caliber, I forgot about. With this scenario, I can absolutely believe the shot came first, and he was still able to make his way out of the shower and the stabbing began. (Thank you to the posters who brought this out!)

Just want to say, I don't post much because a lot of the time I am reading at work (yes, I'm one of those), and I forget what I wanted to say by the time I get home, just thanks to all for keeping this going. (And for all the laughs I had over the "nasty" pictures!) I do so much enjoy this board!

You have a very interesting point. Did she bring the gun with the intent to use it first? Did she think it would be too loud and went and got a knife while Travis was showering? :what:

But, if that is the case, why would she shoot him after putting him in the shower? What motive would she have for that? He is already lifeless or most of the way dead when she drags him into the shower... did she not want him to suffer anymore?

I still do not change my vote. There is blood all over the damn place and I think something didn't go as planned.

She shot him first and ran to get a knife (it would take a whole 30 seconds maybe, I can get through my house in less time). When she came back to his bedroom he was in the hallway and she attacked him there. There wasn't much of a struggle but she definitely slit his throat in the bedroom right where there is a HUGE blood stain in the carpet. Then dragged him back to the bathroom.

 

[Eunoia]

I'm not entirely sure that Travis KNEW he was being photographed while taking a shower. In the photos, except for what appears to be the final one of him alive (the haunted look), the glass shower door appears to be closed.

They were taking a lot of pictures that day and I think he knew he was being photographed. He is clearly posing, IMO.

When I look at his last picture alive, I get an eerie impression that she pulled out the gun and held it up and took a picture of his reaction. OR she pulled out the gun and said something like "I wanted to go to Cancun, you know??" ahaha but for real... I think he knew something was up in that last picture.... :waitasec:

 

[LambChop]

While shooting him in the shower first makes sense, I still have some questions. Even though he was sitting down he was behind a glass door which she would have had to step back to open (range of shot came from 2 foot or more away so that would make sense), I find it hard to believe he would have sat there and let her shoot him without trying to protect himself with his arm up or his hands. It a normal reflex action he would have done without thinking. The last picture of him shows he knew what was coming, knew what she was capable of doing. The only defensive wounds on him are stab wounds on his hands.

JA could have caught him as he was trying to stand with the knife to the heart. I believe she went for the heart first because of TA's comment about being a sex toy with a heartbeat. It was personal and the remark to her was meant to be hurtful and personal.

When he continued to move around the room she kept stabbing him which is evident by the blood patterns throughout the room. TA then tried to get away from her by stumbling or crawling down the hallway where she continued to stab him in the back and finally cut his throat. Since the bed was stripped I could see her getting a sheet off the bed to use to drag him back into the bathroom. He was still making sounds so she had to make sure he was dead so she used the pillow to shoot him. My guess is he had another pillow for the bed which is missing.

The decorative rope from the pillow was on the stairs because it may have dropped off the pillow when she was removing all the bloody items from the house. Too much to put in the washer so she took those items with her. So she put him in the shower, ran the water while she put him in there and finished washing herself off, Turned off the water, got dressed in clean clothes and left. I would think the water all over the floor that ran into the closet was from the shower running while he was put in there and it overflowed onto the floor.

It's possible blood was on the back seat of her car because items may have been thrown in the back because she was afraid of being seen. She needed to get into the car fast to get away. It would have been still daylight out and the threat of people coming home from work, I imagine she rushed to get away.

JA's statement really does not match with what we know happened so I'm not inclinded to believe anything she might say as to the sequence of events. While there may be some truth in portions of her story I believe her goal was to throw everybody off with what she was telling them.

 

[ERRN1313]

You have a very interesting point. Did she bring the gun with the intent to use it first? Did she think it would be too loud and went and got a knife while Travis was showering? :what:

But, if that is the case, why would she shoot him after putting him in the shower? What motive would she have for that? He is already lifeless or most of the way dead when she drags him into the shower... did she not want him to suffer anymore?

I still do not change my vote. There is blood all over the damn place and I think something didn't go as planned.

She shot him first and ran to get a knife (it would take a whole 30 seconds maybe, I can get through my house in less time). When she came back to his bedroom he was in the hallway and she attacked him there. There wasn't much of a struggle but she definitely slit his throat in the bedroom right where there is a HUGE blood stain in the carpet. Then dragged him back to the bathroom.

BBM - No Eunia, I am agreeing with you, lol. My first opinion was that he was stabbed first, that the shot would have immediately rendered him incapable of anything, but reading and looking at the positioning of an "alive" Travis in the shower, I think he could very well have been shot first. I was basing my original opinion more on the gunshot to the head ripping through the brain and immediately incapacitating him, but with the small caliber and the angle, and then the ME testifying that he couldn't tell if it went through the brain or not, I can see the bullet going through the sinuses and not hitting the brain, thus enabling him to move about for a short time.

 

[Teresa]

Haven't posted since the Anthony trial. We can't understand this girl
or be logical about this girl as she's not. This girl has a history with knives..she slashed his tires. Stabbing someone is personal and this crime was all about her anger. She wanted him to feel her pain and anger. She shot him in a final take that. I'm terrified to watch this trial as I just don't believe in justice anymore. Anthony killed her daughter and a jury let her walk.

 

[Eunoia]

Haven't posted since the Anthony trial. We can't understand this girl
or be logical about this girl as she's not. This girl has a history with knives..she slashed his tires. Stabbing someone is personal and this crime was all about her anger. She wanted him to feel her pain and anger. She shot him in a final take that. I'm terrified to watch this trial as I just don't believe in justice anymore. Anthony killed her daughter and a jury let her walk.

You have such a good point. She is definitely very comfortable with knives. I use to wonder how in the heck someone could slash tires because the rubber is so thick! She is obviously strong.

Don't worry Theresa, Jodi will not walk! Casey Anthony had a unique case - had no evidence that tied her to her daughters death that was without a single doubt.

You can not deny DNA, hair follicles, blood, prints, pictures and motives. Jodi is only denying it because she is living in her own reality. In our reality you can not doubt those things. She has not fooled a single person with her lies.

The only thing that concerns me at this point is if she will get a lighter sentence because she has fooled the jury into believing she was defending her own life. There is ZERO evidence, as of right now, that proves Travis was violent to her. I will be so ticked off if they make that poor boy out to be some sort of monster that DESERVED to die.

It just makes me angry, after reading his blog. Travis really came a long way in his life to be where he was. Jodi took it all away and made his journey into a pile of poop. It's really infuriating. kay:

BBM - No Eunia, I am agreeing with you, lol. My first opinion was that he was stabbed first, that the shot would have immediately rendered him incapable of anything, but reading and looking at the positioning of an "alive" Travis in the shower, I think he could very well have been shot first. I was basing my original opinion more on the gunshot to the head ripping through the brain and immediately incapacitating him, but with the small caliber and the angle, and then the ME testifying that he couldn't tell if it went through the brain or not, I can see the bullet going through the sinuses and not hitting the brain, thus enabling him to move about for a short time.

What is BBM, I googled it and it said Big Black Meat? ahahahaha :floorlaugh:

 

[dgfred]

Bolded by me

 

[minor4th]

Posted this in another thread, but this one is more appropriate..

The only way I can make sense of the totality of the wounds is if the ME is off on his opinion that the gunshot wound would have immediately rendered Travis unconscious and unable to defend himself. Even the ME says he does not have complete information because he can't track the bullet through the brain. There's no testimony about what functions are controlled in that part of the brain or why it would necessarily have immediately incapacitated Travis completely.

The other factors that support the gunshot being first are:

1. The shot was downward traveling from Travis' right brow down to his left cheek from at least 2-3 feet away. (ME testimony and pics). This was exactly the relative positions of Travis and Jodi in the last "alive" picture of Travis in the shower 44 seconds before the camera dropped.

2. At no time after the throat wound would Travis have been in a sitting up position that could have led to the path of the projectile from right brow to left cheek unless Jodi was laying on the floor shooting him...an outlandish scenario.

3. The shot could not have been made in the position Travis was found in the shower, so if he was shot after death in the bathroom/shower, Jodi would have had to again reposition his body in the shower after she shot him.

4. Jodi brought the gun with her and all the evidence indicates that she went with the intention of shooting Travis. Reason and logic say that shooting him would have been her first attempt to kill him. In one of her interviews she said that if she killed Travis she would have kept shooting him til he was dead -- and I think that was her intention, but the gun jammed and she had to resort to other "less humane" means. She worked the gun jam into her story during her 48 Hours interview, claiming the gun man tried to shoot her but the gun jammed so she could escape. IMO she was drawing on her actual experiences and observations when coming up with these stories so as to try to make them believable.

5. ME testified that the trajectory of the bullet could have caused blood to enter mouth and nose. This fits the blood spray and patterns around the sink which cannot really be explained any other way -- stabbing in the heart would not cause that kind of spray and would not cause blood in mouth and nose. Although I do think there was some testimony that the patterns could have been caused by Travis being stabbed while he was positioned at the sink.

6. Finally, although we cannot take any of Jodi's statements as the truth, I believe that her account of the intruders was her way to telling pretty accurately what happened to Travis. She wanted to make it believable so she gave an account that she actually believed could have happened -- i.e. Travis being shot and still surviving and able to lift himself up on all fours. To make it as believable as possible, I think she relied on what she actually observed as reality ..Travis was shot and was badly injured but did not die or lose consciousness. She left out the stabbing to the heart and throat slice because she wanted to claim he was still alive when she left.

The only thing that was holding me back from believing in this sequence was the ME's testimony. But there are so many other factors that support him being shot first, and after listening to the ME testimony again, it's not as conclusive as I thought. In fact, he first says that the head would would have "likely" been incapacitating "rapidly" (not immediately). So I conclude that the ME made a mistake with his opinion about the sequence. The fact that the shell casing had no blood does not bother me at all -- Jodi poured water over stuff, and it could have been kicked around or cleared from the gun after the fact.

 

[ERRN1313]

Bolded by me

"Bolded by me" but I think I forgot to "Bold it".

 

[Eunoia]

WARNING - GRAPHIC - WARNING - GRAPHIC

http://s1321.beta.photobucket.com/u...ry/Body?&_suid=135847629216705972110079513047

Not sure if this will help make a decision on how you think he was killed. Again - very graphic.

Mel

I noticed that in the shower, the eyebrow that was shot is not the one facing up.... so he was shot before he was put in there.

 

[Eunoia]

4. Jodi brought the gun with her and all the evidence indicates that she went with the intention of shooting Travis. Reason and logic say that shooting him would have been her first attempt to kill him. In one of her interviews she said that if she killed Travis she would have kept shooting him til he was dead -- and I think that was her intention, but the gun jammed and she had to resort to other "less humane" means. She worked the gun jam into her story during her 48 Hours interview, claiming the gun man tried to shoot her but the gun jammed so she could escape. IMO she was drawing on her actual experiences and observations when coming up with these stories so as to try to make them believable.

:hug: I had to give you a hug after reading that. That is EXACTLY how I feel except your words are more interesting to read.

6. To make it as believable as possible, I think she relied on what she actually observed as reality ..Travis was shot and was badly injured but did not die or lose consciousness. She left out the stabbing to the heart and throat slice because she wanted to claim he was still alive when she left.

:rocker: I agree with this too!!!

 

[TaRazza]

http://picturepush.com/public/11992995



Here's an estimation of the bullet's path and what part(s) of the brain may have been affected and what those parts do. We are all shaped a little differently, so this is by no means accurate. It is possible that the bullet tumbled/wobbled a bit after striking/piercing bones, but in my opinion, this was probably its basic path.

Newbie here, can't seem to figure out how to post the picture, but the link is above.

 

[JitteryJoe]

Posted this in another thread, but this one is more appropriate..

The only way I can make sense of the totality of the wounds is if the ME is off on his opinion that the gunshot wound would have immediately rendered Travis unconscious and unable to defend himself. Even the ME says he does not have complete information because he can't track the bullet through the brain. There's no testimony about what functions are controlled in that part of the brain or why it would necessarily have immediately incapacitated Travis completely.

The other factors that support the gunshot being first are:

1. The shot was downward traveling from Travis' right brow down to his left cheek from at least 2-3 feet away. (ME testimony and pics). This was exactly the relative positions of Travis and Jodi in the last "alive" picture of Travis in the shower 44 seconds before the camera dropped.

2. At no time after the throat wound would Travis have been in a sitting up position that could have led to the path of the projectile from right brow to left cheek unless Jodi was laying on the floor shooting him...an outlandish scenario.

3. The shot could not have been made in the position Travis was found in the shower, so if he was shot after death in the bathroom/shower, Jodi would have had to again reposition his body in the shower after she shot him.

4. Jodi brought the gun with her and all the evidence indicates that she went with the intention of shooting Travis. Reason and logic say that shooting him would have been her first attempt to kill him. In one of her interviews she said that if she killed Travis she would have kept shooting him til he was dead -- and I think that was her intention, but the gun jammed and she had to resort to other "less humane" means. She worked the gun jam into her story during her 48 Hours interview, claiming the gun man tried to shoot her but the gun jammed so she could escape. IMO she was drawing on her actual experiences and observations when coming up with these stories so as to try to make them believable.

5. ME testified that the trajectory of the bullet could have caused blood to enter mouth and nose. This fits the blood spray and patterns around the sink which cannot really be explained any other way -- stabbing in the heart would not cause that kind of spray and would not cause blood in mouth and nose. Although I do think there was some testimony that the patterns could have been caused by Travis being stabbed while he was positioned at the sink.

6. Finally, although we cannot take any of Jodi's statements as the truth, I believe that her account of the intruders was her way to telling pretty accurately what happened to Travis. She wanted to make it believable so she gave an account that she actually believed could have happened -- i.e. Travis being shot and still surviving and able to lift himself up on all fours. To make it as believable as possible, I think she relied on what she actually observed as reality ..Travis was shot and was badly injured but did not die or lose consciousness. She left out the stabbing to the heart and throat slice because she wanted to claim he was still alive when she left.

The only thing that was holding me back from believing in this sequence was the ME's testimony. But there are so many other factors that support him being shot first, and after listening to the ME testimony again, it's not as conclusive as I thought. In fact, he first says that the head would would have "likely" been incapacitating "rapidly" (not immediately). So I conclude that the ME made a mistake with his opinion about the sequence. The fact that the shell casing had no blood does not bother me at all -- Jodi poured water over stuff, and it could have been kicked around or cleared from the gun after the fact.

Ty .. This is exactly as I had imagined it.. I cannot see it any other way. I think if she had stabbed him first.. There would be more defensive wounds to his hands/forearms than what we saw. He was a big guy in relation to her.

 

[*~Aimee~*]

my hubby keeps saying she couldn't drag him and put him in the shower. I say yea she could because look at Shelly Wright and her hubby. She drug him outside. (I think she used something though)

But have they ever said who the guy was that was at the car rental place? How old was her younger brother?