John Ramsey Fabricated Open Basement Window "Evidence"

[Cottonstar]

At first, the window was no big deal to John. He didn’t seem to want to draw attention to it. If you want to make the case that someone came in from the outside of the house and broke in, wouldn’t you be cheerleading the broken window? So why does John not even mention it to the cops that morning? As a concerned parent he should be waving a great big flag at it. So why doesn’t he?

The police aren’t sure whether there’s been any break in anywhere, and what’s more, are mumbling about no footprints in snow. But the broken window is John’s big opportunity to say – wow, this is how and where they could have gotten in. Except John doesn’t do that.

Wilson. TDAC.



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[Userid]

Okay, I see now why you say he was "distancing himself" from the window. But I'm still confused as to when the police actually found out about it. Granted, JR never admits to telling police about it, but does that definitively they didn't know that entire day/night of the 26th? It seems like an impossible question to answer when exactly the police were aware of the window. Were they really that incompetent to miss that, in a kidnapping case, while looking for points of entry and while we know at least one officer searched that basement upon arrival?

Another question: pertaining to the cop who found the cellar door but couldn't open it (forget his name now) -- did that cop search the basement before JR latched the window himself?

 

[Cottonstar]

Okay, I see now why you say he was "distancing himself" from the window. But I'm still confused as to when the police actually found out about it. Granted, JR never admits to telling police about it, but does that definitively they didn't know that entire day/night of the 26th? It seems like an impossible question to answer when exactly the police were aware of the window. Were they really that incompetent to miss that, in a kidnapping case, while looking for points of entry and while we know at least one officer searched that basement upon arrival?

Another question: pertaining to the cop who found the cellar door but couldn't open it (forget his name now) -- did that cop search the basement before JR latched the window himself?

U-

Here’s the thing. When FW searched the basement in the early morning he found the window latched.

Nowhere in Arndt’s, French’s, or Reichenbach’s police reports do they mention the window.


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[Cottonstar]

After they weren’t indicted, the Rams went on their DOI book tour, where they were free to tell their mistruths.


From NBC Today show:

JOHN RAMSEY: We had a basement window that was under a- a grate, a removable grate that I had used the past summer to get into the house when I'd lost my keys. I- I wanted to check that window. I went down to that room. The window was open. It was broken. I went back upstairs and reported that to Detective Arndt.

COURIC: You did tell her about the...

JOHN RAMSEY: YES

COURIC:...open window?

JOHN RAMSEY: I did.

COURIC: And what did she say?

JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall that she said anything.

Of course, you don't recall her saying anything because you never told LE about the broken window in your basement while everyone was looking for your daughter. Gee, John, your daughter has been kidnapped, and you find a broken, open window in your basement, and you don't hoot or holler, jump up and down, blow bells and whistles for police to get down to the basement quickly?

Why didn't you want anyone in the basement John?


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[Cottonstar]

After they weren’t indicted, the Rams went on their DOI book tour, where they were free to tell their mistruths.


From NBC Today show:

JOHN RAMSEY: We had a basement window that was under a- a grate, a removable grate that I had used the past summer to get into the house when I'd lost my keys. I- I wanted to check that window. I went down to that room. The window was open. It was broken. I went back upstairs and reported that to Detective Arndt.

COURIC: You did tell her about the...

JOHN RAMSEY: YES

COURIC:...open window?

JOHN RAMSEY: I did.

COURIC: And what did she say?

JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall that she said anything.

Of course, you don't recall her saying anything because you never told LE about the broken window in your basement while everyone was looking for your daughter. Gee, John, your daughter has been kidnapped, and you find a broken, open window in your basement, and you don't hoot or holler, jump up and down, blow bells and whistles for police to get down to the basement quickly?

Why didn't you want anyone in the basement John?


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It was Arndt and Mason who told JR about the window on the night of the 27th.


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[Userid]

U-

Here’s the thing. When FW searched the basement in the early morning he found the window latched.

Nowhere in Arndt’s, French’s, or Reichenbach’s police reports do they mention the window.


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Well, now I'm even more confused, haha.

I'll just say this: if FW found the window (like you said, he found it latched), he would have had to have seen it was broken. If he didn't tell the cops of this (and it's technically possible he only asked JR about it and never mentioned it to anyone else), that was a misstep on his part.

 

[kay74]

I'm new on here. I remember the window was broken and I believe the housekeeper said she knew that but never had it fixed. When LE checked the window they saw something pulled up against it for someone to crawl back out.

 

[kay74]

I also remember someone saying they had 7 entryway doors in their house and I think it only 3 were locked. Anyone could have walked in there and they did especially seeing it was so close to campus and homeless people. Also shortly after a neighbor man committed suicide. That is a red flag. Neighbors were never interviewed they just focused on Patsy and John. To think they had a Disney cruise to go on. How sad.

 

[UKGuy]

So FW finding the window latched and placing the piece of glass on top of the samsonite along with looking into the wine-cellar and seeing nothing must mean on the face of it FW saw nothing amiss?

1997 BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt

ST: Tom has some questions for you about when John had to break in that basement window . . .

PR: Right.

ST: . . .but was there any reason you couldn’t or John could not have retrieve the key from the Barnhills at that time to get in rather than breaking the window?

PR: He, he may not have know they had a key.

TT: When did John break that window in the basement?

PR: He, I don’t know exactly when he did it, but I think it was last suimmer sometime when we, the kids and I were at the lake.

1998 BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt

10 TRIP DEMUTH: What observations did you make

11 about the window when you cleaned up the glass or about

12 that whole area?

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, there was one of the

14 panes was broken. I don't remember what it was, but I

15 had asked -- that was another one of the odd jobs to

16 have Linda Huffman (phonetic) and her husband do. He

17 was going to do the odd jobs. I think I asked him to

18 repair that, too, but I don't remember. I don't know

19 whether they did that or not.

If you care to read all the parents statements about the broken window you discover Patsy is backing up John's version of events right down to saying she told LHP to do a cleanup.

So both parents know what is going on particularly JR, so all the PDI theorists who think JR read Patsy's mind telepathically can discount this aspect and accept the parents were colluding in post-mortem staging !

IMO the broken window represents a prior staging either not completed or discounted in favor of the wine-cellar abduction scenario. Its likely the suitcase was used to bring stuff down to the basement to assist in the abandonded/unfinished staging, e.g. JonBenet's cutesy photographs?

June 20, 2000 The Star - Linda Hoffmann Pugh, Excerpt

Another thing that made me think Patsy had staged the whole crime was the broken window in the basement.

I used to clean their house three times a week. If something was broken, Patsy had me clean it up. On the morning of the murder, police found a broken window in the basement, just a few feet from the room where JonBenet's body was found. John Ramsey told the police that he had broken the window to get into the house months before when he was accidentally locked out.

But I think that is a lie. If there had been broken glass in the basement, Patsy would have told me to clean it up. Another thing didn't make sense. John claimed he was locked out on that day when he supposedly broke the window.

But he never used a key to come in the front or side door of the house. He always opened the garage door from his car with his remote and came in through the garage entrance. I think Patsy broke that window herself on the night she killed JonBenet to make the police think there had been an intruder, and John concocted the story about breaking the window.

So LHP thinks the case is PDI with JR taking one for the Gipper.

So who do you believe Patsy or LHP?

Also could JR have moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar that morning, hence the blanket, when he went for a walk?

Would FW not have smelt death and urine in that wine-cellar ?

Bottom line is JR is fabricating a cover story for the broken window and Patsy is backing him up, i.e. both parents have constructed a post-mortem staging thereby colluding in JonBenet's homicide !

The only way out is to say LHP is lying but where is the percentage in that for LHP?

.

 

[Cottonstar]

So FW finding the window latched and placing the piece of glass on top of the samsonite along with looking into the wine-cellar and seeing nothing must mean on the face of it FW saw nothing amiss?

1997 BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt


1998 BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt


If you care to read all the parents statements about the broken window you discover Patsy is backing up John's version of events right down to saying she told LHP to do a cleanup.

So both parents know what is going on particularly JR, so all the PDI theorists who think JR read Patsy's mind telepathically can discount this aspect and accept the parents were colluding in post-mortem staging !

IMO the broken window represents a prior staging either not completed or discounted in favor of the wine-cellar abduction scenario. Its likely the suitcase was used to bring stuff down to the basement to assist in the abandonded/unfinished staging, e.g. JonBenet's cutesy photographs?

June 20, 2000 The Star - Linda Hoffmann Pugh, Excerpt


So LHP thinks the case is PDI with JR taking one for the Gipper.

So who do you believe Patsy or LHP?

Also could JR have moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar that morning, hence the blanket, when he went for a walk?

Would FW not have smelt death and urine in that wine-cellar ?

Bottom line is JR is fabricating a cover story for the broken window and Patsy is backing him up, i.e. both parents have constructed a post-mortem staging thereby colluding in JonBenet's homicide !

The only way out is to say LHP is lying but where is the percentage in that for LHP?

.

What about BR version of events? Completely different. According to BR, he was WITH his father when he broke the window. Hmmm, somebody is lying.


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[k-mac]

wasnt it the incredible superhero smit who deleted ...rearranged ...added....realigned john ramseys window basement situation to accommodate his intruder theory.
john obediently went along for the ride. sounded good. why not.
laughable he'd already locked in with the police owning the broken window. backed up by his wife.
what a joke. jokes on us the people. jokes on the death of a beautiful sweet little girl ​

:thinking:

 

[UKGuy]

What about BR version of events? Completely different. According to BR, he was WITH his father when he broke the window. Hmmm, somebody is lying.


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Cottonstar,
I totally agree. I reckon LHP has no skin in this game, she is telling the truth, she even tells us JR had an alternative entrance via the gargage door, is this not how they entered on returning from the Whites?

From the parents admission BR was awake prior to the 911 call, yet BR himself had claimed he slept all night in his bedroom, never awakening once.

So on the latter and the former claim he was with his father BR when he broke the window, surely tells us BR is also involved directly in post-mortem staging?

i.e. all three Ramsey's chop and change their story to suit the circumstances, latest example is JR regarding the flashlight and BR going downstairs to play with a toy.

The case is most definitely not PDI with JR catching up on events telepathically and sweet innocent BR lying clueless asleep in his bed.

Its JDI or PDI with each parent covering for the other and telling BR what to say and do, or its BDI with both parents covering for BR?

.

 

[Userid]

Cottonstar,
I totally agree. I reckon LHP has no skin in this game, she is telling the truth, she even tells us JR had an alternative entrance via the gargage door, is this not how they entered on returning from the Whites?

From the parents admission BR was awake prior to the 911 call, yet BR himself had claimed he slept all night in his bedroom, never awakening once.

So on the latter and the former claim he was with his father BR when he broke the window, surely tells us BR is also involved directly in staging?

i.e. all three Ramsey's chop and change their story to suit the circumstances, latest example is JR regarding the flashlight and BR going downstairs to play with a toy.

The case is most definitely not PDI with JR catching up on events telepathically and sweet innocent BR lying clueless asleep in his bed.

Its JDI or PDI with each parent covering for the other and telling BR what to say and do, or its BDI with both parents covering for BR?

.

It's ironic you say this, because in BDI, both parents would need to be telepathic. In many BDI scenarios (including yours, at one time or another?), you have the parents stumbling upon the body only after BR committed the crime, and immediately beginning the staging, before ever confronting BR and/or calling an ambulance. And in many BDI scenarios, you have PR staging and JR not realizing what happened until later (without confronting PR or BR). So to act like PDI is the only scenario that would involve "telepathy" is rich.

Anyways, I've always believed it was the underlined.

 

[icedtea4me]

So FW finding the window latched and placing the piece of glass on top of the samsonite along with looking into the wine-cellar and seeing nothing must mean on the face of it FW saw nothing amiss?

1997 BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt


1998 BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt


If you care to read all the parents statements about the broken window you discover Patsy is backing up John's version of events right down to saying she told LHP to do a cleanup.

So both parents know what is going on particularly JR, so all the PDI theorists who think JR read Patsy's mind telepathically can discount this aspect and accept the parents were colluding in post-mortem staging !

IMO the broken window represents a prior staging either not completed or discounted in favor of the wine-cellar abduction scenario. Its likely the suitcase was used to bring stuff down to the basement to assist in the abandonded/unfinished staging, e.g. JonBenet's cutesy photographs?

June 20, 2000 The Star - Linda Hoffmann Pugh, Excerpt


So LHP thinks the case is PDI with JR taking one for the Gipper.

So who do you believe Patsy or LHP?

Also could JR have moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar that morning, hence the blanket, when he went for a walk?

Would FW not have smelt death and urine in that wine-cellar ?

Bottom line is JR is fabricating a cover story for the broken window and Patsy is backing him up, i.e. both parents have constructed a post-mortem staging thereby colluding in JonBenet's homicide !

The only way out is to say LHP is lying but where is the percentage in that for LHP?

.

22 LOU SMIT: Were you alone at that time?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
24 LOU SMIT: First of all, now when you
25 drove home, did you drive home when you got in
0216
1 that late that night?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall specifically.
3 But I think I took (INAUDIBLE) and it dropped me
4 off.
5 LOU SMIT: And then they dropped you off
6 there at the house.
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
8 LOU SMIT: So you don't have a garage
9 door opener at that time, is that what you're
10 saying?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
12 LOU SMIT: Do you normally have a garage
13 opener?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: In my car. See I have a
15 garage opener I can get in the house because we
16 never lock the door in the garage that goes in the
17 house. And that was 98 percent of the time how I
18 got in the house.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

 

[UKGuy]

It's ironic you say this, because in BDI, both parents would need to be telepathic. In many BDI scenarios (including yours, at one time or another?), you have the parents stumbling upon the body only after BR committed the crime, and immediately beginning the staging, before ever confronting BR and/or calling an ambulance. And in many BDI scenarios, you have PR staging and JR not realizing what happened until later (without confronting PR or BR). So to act like PDI is the only scenario that would involve "telepathy" is rich.

Anyways, I've always believed it was the underlined.

Userid,
Thats just how you wish to interpret what I post. I certainly do not know in a BDI which parent found JonBenet, but I reckon its pretty evident they both knew, telepathy is not required, the post-mortem staging should flag this up for you.

PDI is the front runner where the parents are concerned, but JDI still makes an appearance due to JR's diligence in the post-mortem staging down to his latest twist about using the flashlight to put BR to bed, whut, who needs a flashlight in his own house?

I reckon we will find out more once JR leaves us, BR will do some media interview and drop a hint?

.

 

[Cottonstar]

wasnt it the incredible superhero smit who deleted ...rearranged ...added....realigned john ramseys window basement situation to accommodate his intruder theory.
john obediently went along for the ride. sounded good. why not.
laughable he'd already locked in with the police owning the broken window. backed up by his wife.
what a joke. jokes on us the people. jokes on the death of a beautiful sweet little girl ​

:thinking:

This is a more accurate rare crime scene photo that depicts how the window looked on the morning of Dec. 26. This is how FW saw the window.

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[Cottonstar]

This is a more accurate rare crime scene photo that depicts how the window looked on the morning of Dec. 26. This is how FW saw the window.

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Also, remember the suit case was flush against the wall when FW saw it.


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[Userid]

Userid,
Thats just how you wish to interpret what I post. I certainly do not know in a BDI which parent found JonBenet, but I reckon its pretty evident they both knew, telepathy is not required, the post-mortem staging should flag this up for you.

PDI is the front runner where the parents are concerned, but JDI still makes an appearance due to JR's diligence in the post-mortem staging down to his latest twist about using the flashlight to put BR to bed, whut, who needs a flashlight in his own house?

I reckon we will find out more once JR leaves us, BR will do some media interview and drop a hint?

.

How would either definitively know that BR (out of blue, unless you think this wasn't his first murder) killed JBR without confronting him and/or before beginning the staging process? There's only one answer: telepathy. Even if you think his childhood behavior was off, BR's previous behavior was in no way indicative that he would ever pull off such an extreme act. I'm not trying to fight here; I'm just saying, let's not pretend that telepathy is utilized only in PDI.

 

[UKGuy]

How would either definitively know that BR (out of blue, unless you think this wasn't his first murder) killed JBR without confronting him and/or before beginning the staging process? There's only one answer: telepathy. Even if you think his childhood behavior was off, BR's previous behavior was in no way indicative that he would ever pull off such an extreme act. I'm not trying to fight here; I'm just saying, let's not pretend that telepathy is utilized only in PDI.

Userid,
Sure no fighting right kids? Its a subject ripe for discussion, no expansion on this topic allows people to form their own views and you think : telepathy, thats fine.

Except the alleged circumstances in PDI and BDI are different, i.e. according to whomever is promoting the theory. Some people think Patsy did it all with JR magically and slowly realizing what was going on, but he hangs in there and eventually assists.

Anyway there is evidence to show all three R's were knowingly involved in post-mortem staging so that alone should rule out telepathy regardless of which RDI you suscribe to.

So telepathy is required in some PDI theories, e.g. DocG, as JR wakes up from a melatonin induced sleep to the murder of his daughter and knows all the right stuff to say and do without being told.

In BDI nobody knows what took place or who found JonBenet or when, this is why BDI can appear opaque. I'm assuming if, as per Kolar, the case is BDI All then one of the parents would have found JonBenet and from the childish staging known BR was involved, so BR would have been spoken to, whether he told his parents everything, who knows?

Similar applies to a BDI where BR whacks JonBenet in anger waits a while then informs his parents, possibly after some cleanup measures, again the parents will want to know what happened, does BR tell the truth though?

So it should be obvious telepathy is not needed in a BDI theory since the parents are going to stage for BR, principally because they are adults and think they can do a better job than BR, if that is BR on the 911 call we heard JR telling BR that they were not speaking to him, so ...

So the parents behavour in BDI can be explained without recourse to telepathy, not so in some PDI theories, as above, its a moot point now, since we know all three R's colluded in post-mortem staging.

The unknown in BDI is , is it as bad as Kolar makes out with his hints regarding BR's state of mind, bear in mind BR was seeing a therapist prior to JonBenet's death, or is the case a sad accident that was staged as an abduction gone wrong via a sexual assault?

The case is still wide open, particularly after JR's alleged remarks on Dr Phil, i.e. why does he need to worry about anything if the case is really PDI, similarly for BDI, he should be enjoying his retirement spending all his litigation awards.

.

 

[Userid]

Userid,
Sure no fighting right kids? Its a subject ripe for discussion, no expansion on this topic allows people to form their own views and you think : telepathy, thats fine.

Except the alleged circumstances in PDI and BDI are different, i.e. according to whomever is promoting the theory. Some people think Patsy did it all with JR magically and slowly realizing what was going on, but he hangs in there and eventually assists.

Anyway there is evidence to show all three R's were knowingly involved in post-mortem staging so that alone should rule out telepathy regardless of which RDI you suscribe to.

So telepathy is required in some PDI theories, e.g. DocG, as JR wakes up from a melatonin induced sleep to the murder of his daughter and knows all the right stuff to say and do without being told.

In BDI nobody knows what took place or who found JonBenet or when, this is why BDI can appear opaque. I'm assuming if, as per Kolar, the case is BDI All then one of the parents would have found JonBenet and from the childish staging known BR was involved, so BR would have been spoken to, whether he told his parents everything, who knows?

Similar applies to a BDI where BR whacks JonBenet in anger waits a while then informs his parents, possibly after some cleanup measures, again the parents will want to know what happened, does BR tell the truth though?

So it should be obvious telepathy is not needed in a BDI theory since the parents are going to stage for BR, principally because they are adults and think they can do a better job than BR, if that is BR on the 911 call we heard JR telling BR that they were not speaking to him, so ...

So the parents behavour in BDI can be explained without recourse to telepathy, not so in some PDI theories, as above, its a moot point now, since we know all three R's colluded in post-mortem staging.

The unknown in BDI is , is it as bad as Kolar makes out with his hints regarding BR's state of mind, bear in mind BR was seeing a therapist prior to JonBenet's death, or is the case a sad accident that was staged as an abduction gone wrong via a sexual assault?

The case is still wide open, particularly after JR's alleged remarks on Dr Phil, i.e. why does he need to worry about anything if the case is really PDI, similarly for BDI, he should be enjoying his retirement spending all his litigation awards.

.

Okay, but they're the minority in the PDI camp and (arguably) the majority in the BDI camp. In BDI, many believe that BR did it all by himself: the rape, the strangling -- and they don't have the parents finding out until BR is back in his bed beneath the covers and they stumble upon the body in the morning. Moreover, they don't have them finding out from confronting BR himself; they just "know" he did it. Evidently, you think BR was confronted (which is a recent belief?); and I think that both parents knew as both were involved at the same time -- so neither one of us believe in telepathy in our respective camps; but nevertheless (and more to my point, which you seem to not want to admit for some reason): in both sides (PDI and BDI), there exists a subsection that employs telepathy. Why you don't want to admit this is a bit perplexing; I've literally gotten into disagreements many times on this very subject with multiple people (BDI'ers) here.

And as we've gone over before, I'll just say I disagree that there is evidence that all three were involved in the staging. There is evidence of two people being involved in the staging, but let's not go down that route again (we've been there before). You think the bloomies, the long-johns, and the knot prove BR was involved; I don't; so be it.