John Ramsey Fabricated Open Basement Window "Evidence"

[Britt]

Wasn't it the practice note that was addressed to both? The actual note was addressed to Mr. Ramsey only.

Yes, that's right. Great catch, IrishMist!

 

[IrishMist]

As I read the rest of the deposition, Mr. Wood does try to clear this up:





MR. WOOD: Let me briefly cover a couple of matters with you, Mr. Ramsey, by way of direct or reflect discovery.

EXAMINATION BY-MR.WOOD:

Q. Let me hand you what has been marked for purposes of identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 16 to this deposition, and I think it has been represented to you and acknowledged by you, it appears to be — we don't know how much generations away from the original, but a copy of the ransom note found in your home on December 26, 1996. You have looked at that earlier today?

A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

Q. At the time earlier in your testimony with Mr. Hoffman, I think you made reference to one of the peculiarities of the ransom note being that you were first discussed or addressed formally and then later in the note informally. Do you remember —

A. Yes.

Q. — telling Mr. Hoffman about that? And I think you made the reference that you were addressed "Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey." Do you recall telling him that?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have the ransom note in front of you at the time you were giving that information to Mr. Hoffman?

A. No. I had forgotten that it was only addressed to me. But what it was what — what I noticed was that it was a formal address, and yet they fell into a familiar form later on.
MR. WOOD: That is all I wanted to clarify.


It still strikes me as odd.

 

[Britt]

Oh yes, I bet Wood wanted to "clarify" that little slip of John's... lol. OOPS.

[JOHN RAMSEY] A. No. I had forgotten that it was only addressed to me.

Forgotten? Yeah right. He quoted it.

 

[BlueCrab]

No I don't think I misunderstood your post at all. In your post before you were talking about things that were not reported. That would mean there were reports and you gave the impression that you knew what was in them. And you still haven't answered my question. How do you know what Fleet White and Rick French said or didn't say about moving boxes, etc.? I understand that if it didn't happen there would be no mention of it, all I want to know is how do you know it didn't happen, for a fact? If you have access to material we've never seen you should let us know what that material is. If you don't and you are merely speculating, you should also let us know that and not state these things as fact. Thanks!

trixie,

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I know something in police reports that others don't know. I know nothing more than what's also available to you. I have never seen Rick French's police report nor his first responder's report. I know that Steve Thomas leaked the first responder's report to Ann Bardach to write her Vanity Fair article, but other than that, I don't think the report was made public. The Bonita papers, written largely from information in stolen police reports, states that Fleet White "In checking the latch for the window he discovered that it was unlatched, but closed."

I'm simply using logic to state that if Rick French or Fleet White had found the basement window open they would have certainly reported it immediately, within minutes, not four months later. So the window wasn't likely open when Rick French and Fleet White inspected it. John Ramsey, who allegedly inspected the window at 10 AM, four hours AFTER Rick French and Fleet White had inspected it and apparently did not find it open, said he found the window open. Therefore, John seems to be lying.

Rick French, in his report, may have noted that the window glass had a hole in it and the latch was unlocked, but his report is not public and I didn't see the report. Fleet White made a lot of handwritten notes that morning, so he too may have documentation about the window.

The absence of information coming from Rick French and Fleet White on day one about a window being found open in the basement logically tells me there was no open window in the basement.

BlueCrab

 

[trixie]

Thank you BlueCrab for answering me and clarifying that this is an opinion you have formed using your own logic and this is not fact based. Over the years I've seen a lot of the facts twisted just so someone can make their particular theory make sense, and no, I'm not saying that is what you did, I just think sometimes you forget your "IMO,s"and it can be really confusing especially for someone who is new to the case and trying to learn the facts by reading this board. We've been around this block before you and I and I have to give you credit, you always answer my post eventually, you don't avoid it.

 

[rashomon]

Quote:
I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he came up from the basement, I mean it was just a horrible thing

This is like a jigsaw with pieces missing, so I am skeptical about assuming John is implicated on the basis of a bad memory event, as opposed to the usual amnesic explanation.
there are other examples even in the staging theories where stuff does not seem to fit, but I gloss over it, since the essence seems correct.
There is one in the above quote where Patsy has a confessional lapse:
Something does not fit here, or is Patsy trying to implicate John in advance of an assumed court appearance?
Why should John be screaming, especially returning from the basement?
Scream down in the basement maybe, but why upstairs, I dont get it!

To me this is a classic example of a liar unable to keep her story straight and getting caught in the web of her own fabrication.
John Benet's body had not officially been 'discovered' by John before 1:05 p.m., but Patsy here makes it seem as if John Ramsey had come up from the basement when she first saw the ransom note, i. e. very early in the morning. When she said that, she forgot for a moment that she couldn't yet 'place' John in the basement at all at that point.
What a blunder on her part - wow!
To me this is the proof that Patsy's whole account of the dramatic discovery of the ransom note was nothing but a big fat LIE. Patsy never discovered any note - she wrote it.
Nor do I believe that John 'discovered' JB's body at any point. I think he himself carried it down to help Patsy in the cover-up. I can't imagine a hysterical type like Patsy would have been able to pull all this staging through alone and in cold blood.

 

[Cypros]

To me this is a classic example of a liar unable to keep her story straight and getting caught in the web of her own fabrication.
John Benet's body had not officially been 'discovered' by John before 1:05 p.m., but Patsy here makes it seem as if John Ramsey had come up from the basement when she first saw the ransom note, i. e. very early in the morning. When she said that, she forgot for a moment that she couldn't yet 'place' John in the basement at all at that point.
What a blunder on her part - wow!
To me this is the proof that Patsy's whole account of the dramatic discovery of the ransom note was nothing but a big fat LIE. Patsy never discovered any note - she wrote it.
Nor do I believe that John 'discovered' JB's body at any point. I think he himself carried it down to help Patsy in the cover-up. I can't imagine a hysterical type like Patsy would have been able to pull all this staging through alone and in cold blood.

You can interpret PR's quote that way, but it is also possible to interpret that her mention of John screaming as he came up from the basement is in reference to when he officially found her later in the day. She was relating the story of finding the note at 6am and her hoarse voice, but she goes offtrack for a second and talks about the screams that she still hears in her head -- her own and John's when he found JB (in bold below) -- and then she returns to the discovery of the note.

PR: I remember my voice was just cracking. I mean it was like "JOHN," like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know, ....I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he came up from the basement, I mean it was just a horrible thing.... he comes down those stairs there and...I am pacing.

Don't get me wrong. I believe PR and JR were involved, but I don't think this quote is the smoking gun.

 

[rashomon]

You can interpret PR's quote that way, but it is also possible to interpret that her mention of John screaming as he came up from the basement is in reference to when he officially found her later in the day. She was relating the story of finding the note at 6am and her hoarse voice, but she goes offtrack for a second and talks about the screams that she still hears in her head -- her own and John's when he found JB (in bold below) -- and then she returns to the discovery of the note.

PR: I remember my voice was just cracking. I mean it was like "JOHN," like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know, ....I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he came up from the basement, I mean it was just a horrible thing.... he comes down those stairs there and...I am pacing.

Don't get me wrong. I believe PR and JR were involved, but I don't think this quote is the smoking gun.

You mean Patsy just threw the things that she remembered together? Possibly.
But did John Ramsey scream at all when he came up from the basement at 1:05? He screamed when he saw JB's body down in the basement, but Patsy could not have heard that scream because she was upstairs at that time.

 

[BBB167893]

"Don't get me wrong. I believe PR and JR were involved, but I don't think this quote is the smoking gun."

Maybe not, Cypros. But don't forget, earlier she had screamed from the first floor to John on the third floor, and he came rushing to her. The police did tests that showed a scream would be heard more easily outside than in the house. Which is it?

"He remembered other phrases and whatnot... does this seem odd to anyone else?"

This whole case is unusual, Irishmist!

 

[Toltec]

Still unconvinced that John found JonBenet early that morning?...

JR: So when I first found her I was like "Thank God, I found her." I didn't want Patsy to see her that way, and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.

LS: Upstairs?

JR: Probably up in the tv room. I just ran up these stairs and went back down and put the blanket over her.

 

[shiloh]

Still unconvinced that John found JonBenet early that morning?...

JR: So when I first found her I was like "Thank God, I found her." I didn't want Patsy to see her that way, and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.

LS: Upstairs?

JR: Probably up in the tv room. I just ran up these stairs and went back down and put the blanket over her.

That's pretty convincing. Is this from an old transcript that you had copied? I'm not finding this anywhere on the internet.

 

[BBB167893]

Could be from the book that had the interviews in it.

 

[shiloh]

Could be from the book that had the interviews in it.

Which book is that? Do you know? I'm just finding a partial quote on the internet, just up to "Thank God, I found her." But nothing after that.

 

[Thorkim]

Still unconvinced that John found JonBenet early that morning?...

JR: So when I first found her I was like "Thank God, I found her." I didn't want Patsy to see her that way, and I ran upstairs and got a blanket off one of the chairs.

LS: Upstairs?

JR: Probably up in the tv room. I just ran up these stairs and went back down and put the blanket over her.

Oops.

 

[Thorkim]

Two things stand out to me after thinking about this interview. I'm assuming this was Lou Smit and John. First, John says he ran upstairs and got the blanket, then went back downstairs to cover JonBenet. Ok, John, when did that happen? You're right Toltec. It sure as hell didn't happen at a little after 1:00 pm when Arndt sent him on the finding JonBenet quest.

The other strange thing is saying "probably" the tv room. Didn't he know? This falls into place their fairy tale of a book the Death of Innocence. Usually, they would do this and that on Xmas morning. No details on this Christmas. They are so vague. Why didn't I pick up on this gem before? Thanks Toltec, great catch.

 

[icedtea4me]

This is from the 6/23/98 interview on the ACR site-

25 LOU SMIT: Now when you brought her up, did
0168

1 you bring her from the basement, and did you meet

2 anybody up on the first floor?

3 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember anybody. I

4 just remember bringing her in and laying her -- I

5 mean there were people in the dining and living

6 room. But I remember Linda Arndt kneeling down

7 beside her. I was there and Linda said she's dead.

8 And I didn't want -- Patsy hadn't come in the --

9 LOU SMIT: When was Patsy --

10 JOHN RAMSEY: But I didn't know at the time,

11 but later, she was back in the study with Barbara

12 Fernie and I don't know who else. My emotion was

13 that I had found her, which was good. But she was

14 dead, which was horrible. But it was almost better

15 than not knowing. Cause not knowing where your

16 child is the most horrible feeling, I think, a

17 parent can experience. And that was (INAUDIBLE)

18 what had been going through our mind all that

19 morning.

20 So when I first found her I was like,

21 (Thank God, I found her.̃ I didn't want Patsy to

22 see her that way, and I ran upstairs and got a

23 blanket off one of the chairs, I think, it's got

24 a little shape like.

25 LOU SMIT: Upstairs?

0169

1 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably up in the TV room.

2 I just ran up these stairs and went back down and

3 put the blanket over her.

-Tea

 

[sissi]

Lord, poor John, he was faced with a horror and still remained a caring husband. He brought her upstairs and ran to get her a blanket so Patsy wouldn't have to see. Linda Arndt did something similar, she covered her with a sweatshirt. BTW, I was looking at the artist rendering earlier today, it did not depict Jonbenet in the position that has been described. No arms frozen into position over her head in the "front of her".

 

[capps]

" So when I first found her ..."

I have to admit that's a strange way for John to phrase that ... was there a second time he found her?

 

[shiloh]

Thank you, Tea. That clears it up. It was after he had brought her up from the basement that he went and covered up with a blanket in the livingroom.

 

[icedtea4me]

Thank you, Tea. That clears it up. It was after he had brought her up from the basement that he went and covered up with a blanket in the livingroom.

Yet he was already on the first floor, the same floor where the living room was located. Therefore, there would be no need for him to go up the next floor.


-Tea