KC's "Brain Development"

[Solace]

I believe there is allycat..but assume they are sealed at this point...but Casey is a manipulator, and those she feels she can control, thus the lashing out at her "Controllers" (family) and "Responsibiities" (Caylee///:-()....She only holds onto relationships that she feels in control of and dismisses , rejects, or blames anyone who does NOT suit her purpose...

Bottomline..Sociopath/Narcissistic personality....NO EXCUSE for murdering an innocent...In the old dayz they termed this as "The Bad Seed" person...who took out any obstacle to her wants and needs by words or deeds!!...Maybe Casey fits in that category!!:twocents:[/QUOTE

They are not brought into the picture until the actual trial? Why would the psychological reports be sealed?

DEFENSE doesn't have a psychologist; the state would have gone along with it but defense did not want them to be there when she was examined. so they foregoed it (if that is a word)

 

[gngr~snap]

MOO- 21 years in pediatrics tells me LA has asperger's with almost certainty. My dad has it
and graduated from GA TECH
It's more of a social disorder than intelligence.
ICA runs more in the spectrum of high functioning autism.BUT I can only base my opinion on what I have witnessed on TV.
I. see ZERO indication of fetal alcohol syndrome. GOOGLE IT! ICA looks NOTHING like FAS.
JMOO!

 

[kinsey milhoune]

Wow- thanks for sharing that. I get it, completely. This personality is off the charts and very difficult to deal with. My friend, like your DIL, refused to give up. I felt helpless but eventually she's moved on to my circle of friends. It's just mind boggling. The boss I referenced, attempted to sue me for some really odd things after I quit. He lost every time, but not before nearly causing me a nervous breakdown. I finally just threatened his attorney with abuse of the system, which put the kabash on it. He must of seen something shiny which distracted him and has since moved on, now doing this to another ex-employee. This, mind you, is a CEO of a company.

I think the narcissist and sociopath can go hand in hand. Where one is, the other is not too far behind. We ALL need to be mindful of this type and run when you see the signs.
Thanks for sharing your story.

It's interesting that you mention your ex boss trying to sue you for really odd things, that is what the EX DIL is doing to my son. She has bogus charges against him, all of which her emails prove to be lies, but even so, her (crazy) lawyer goes right along with her.

That is why my son is so financially stressed. Everytime she files one of these bogus charges, his lawyer has to answer it & there goes another $500 to $600!!!

I think murder seperates the narc. from the sociopath, once they cross that line, they are a sociopath.

This EX can lie without a blink of the eye, the lies just flow from her mouth. She has gotten caught in every one of them & then lies some more to try to cover them.

Or her excuse is "I don't remember saying that" and her favorite one if she had hurt one of the children "It's in the past, why can't everyone just get over it"!!!!

 

[LyndyLoo]

I believe there is allycat..but assume they are sealed at this point...but Casey is a manipulator, and those she feels she can control, thus the lashing out at her "Controllers" (family) and "Responsibiities" (Caylee///:-()....She only holds onto relationships that she feels in control of and dismisses , rejects, or blames anyone who does NOT suit her purpose...

Bottomline..Sociopath/Narcissistic personality....NO EXCUSE for murdering an innocent...In the old dayz they termed this as "The Bad Seed" person...who took out any obstacle to her wants and needs by words or deeds!!...Maybe Casey fits in that category!!:twocents:[/QUOTE

They are not brought into the picture until the actual trial? Why would the psychological reports be sealed?

I could be wrong, but I have heard Judge Perry refer to Assesment of Casey by the state..and that she was not deemed unfit for trial/or had any issues that would deem her Incapable of abiding by rules and the laws//..and the actual report has never been exposed..All this was stated when the defense was seeking moneys for another "Psychologists"..and DT reassured they were NOT seeking "Deminished Capacity"...What does that mean?? Simply they are looking to find some sort of psychological rationale for her behaviors in mitigations or pointing to her inability to be "Rational"..Either way, Casey has been evaluated already..and so far havent seen any report...IIRC

 

[Omachka]

I find it odd that JB went on National TV and bragged how intelligent KC is and how much she was assisting in her defense. I don't have the link for that but it wasn't real long ago. Doesn't quite fit with what AF is trying to sell us.

ETA: I found reference to this on Hal Boedeker's blog. It says he told In Session that KC is intelligent in March of this year.

 

[allycat1208]

MOO- 21 years in pediatrics tells me LA has asperger's with almost certainty. My dad has it
and graduated from GA TECH
It's more of a social disorder than intelligence.
ICA runs more in the spectrum of high functioning autism.BUT I can only base my opinion on what I have witnessed on TV.
I. see ZERO indication of fetal alcohol syndrome. GOOGLE IT! ICA looks NOTHING like FAS.
JMOO!

Casey from all accountss seemed quite socialable. I though anyone affected by asperger's syndrome's is anti-social.

 

[wenwe4]

Phumi, what an incredible read! Thank you so much for posting the link. I truly agree with all of the attachment theory, the bio-psycho-social long term effects of trauma on small children and the PTSD aftermath. I believe these are the only mitigating factors that the DT has that have some sense of relevance. I honestly believe the following:
1) kc and ca had a disorganized relationship in their attachment due to CA's own personality issues.
2) kc never felt wanted, loved, nurtured, or good enough for her parents. she wanted a reaction from them and was as bad as she could be . . . failing in school, getting pregnant, getting fired, lying, cheating, whoring, drinking, forcing her parents to either confront her or enable her. they chose to enable.
3) meanwhile kc sees Caylee receiving the very thing she never could . . .unconditional love from both CA & GA.
4) when CA attempted to choke kc on the 15th . . . it was the first and only time CA stood up to kc.
5) kc punished her mother (and father) in the most horrific way by killing Caylee . . . the only person who got more love and attention than they ever gave kc (in kc's opinion). Remove her only competition for their love . . . after all Lee was all grown up and moved out. The A's threatened to take Caylee away from kc . . . she would show them . . . she would take Caylee out.

 

[kinsey milhoune]

Here's what I don't get about a narcissistic personality, how can they have that me, me, me thing and feel anger if they don't feel for other people or have remorse?

I hope someone understands what I'm trying to ask.

Narcissists require (to survive) what is called "narcissistic feed". It's like food or oxygen to us.

Narcissistic feed is people adoring them, people telling them how wonderful they are, so it is all about ME, ME, ME. The anger they feel is against someone who has wronged them(or the perceive to have harmed them), they don't have feelings about other people or their hardships or problems.

They are also totally paranoid & think everyone thinks like them & is out to get them.

Any tears they shed, unless it is for themselves, is a learned behavior. Narc's can learn to act like "normal" people from observing when it is the right time to show this or that emotion, but it's all fake.

Deep down, narcissists actually loathe themselves & they need outside gratification to keep convincing themselves how wonderful they are. They can also have multiple personalities & can actually blame one of the other personalities for the wrong doing.

It is a total fantasy world that they live in, in their mind.

They will discard anyone who stops giving them that narcissistic feed, like yesterdays trash.

You see how ICA has turned on her parents? That is because they are not giving her the narc. feed.

As for Caley, she got all the attention from ICA's parents, she took over the spotlight & my guess is ICA could not stand it, she wanted it back.

She see's herself as a celebrity now & can't understand why her parents & everyone else does not.

I will also tell you this, she is LOVING being in court. Look at all this attention just for HER.

She does not believe she will be found guilty, as narcissists feel they are above the law, can rationalize any wrong they have done & they believe that everyone else thinks like they do.

Don't try to analyze their mind, it's like trying to figure out a totally insane person.

That is basically what we are dealing with.

Hope this helps answer your question.

 

[kinsey milhoune]

I find it odd that JB went on National TV and bragged how intelligent KC is and how much she was assisting in her defense. I don't have the link for that but it wasn't real long ago. Doesn't quite fit with what AF is trying to sell us.

Narcissists can be extremely intelligent & also very social. They charm people with their fake lies. They are academy award actors!

 

[allycat1208]

In re: to Gngr-snap

I'm sorry... I misread what you wrote. You are talking about Lee Anthony.

 

[elementary]

I have to step out here for a bit but I really want to poke around in Danziger and Weitz's threads and review their studies. Something is telling me that AF may be referencing that her brain development was normal intellectually, but physiologically diferent in some way that impacted processing of emotions or recognizing risky behavior? :waitasec:

I am a huge proponent of Occam's razor in a case like this where the DT tries to befuddle and confuse and outright lies. Brain studies would only convince me if they did an MRI/CT scan. Fact is, psychopaths' brains have been studied in this manner, live, to document their responses/non-responses to emotional stimuli. Their brains do process differently, but not in a handicapped manner. It gives them a great advantage in the world because they lack empathy. Risky behaviours go hand in hand with sociopathy/psychopathy/personality disorders.

IMO, the relative brain difference the DT is hinting at would have to be quantified and in a significant manner for me to believe otherwise. Everything points to psychopathy. Why else will the DT not allow the perp to be examined by a psychiatrist/psychologist? They float this, at best, theory to raise doubt. I personally think it's silly. The perp didn't finish high school because that's typical of antisocial types. She preyed on others instead so she could live in the world of fantasy, sensation, and elevation. She's really too lazy and dumb to be a highly successful psychopath but that doesn't mean she isn't one.

 

[kaRN]

I have to step out here for a bit but I really want to poke around in Danziger and Weitz's threads and review their studies. Something is telling me that AF may be referencing that her brain development was normal intellectually, but physiologically diferent in some way that impacted processing of emotions or recognizing risky behavior? :waitasec:

All the RN's on the jury will want to see the MRI's and CT scans for proof of the physiological differences. Just saying it's so doesn't make it so to that crowd. :woohoo:

 

[badhorsie]

For what it is worth, I am a RN Psych. Happy to be verified but in UK and not sure how it would work.

I am wondering about a temporal lobe epilepsy syndrome with Casey, episodic dyscontrol being a part of this.
This would show up on an eeg and/or a spect scan or pet scan to a psychiatrist who knows what to look for and would be acceptable as mitigation in a UK court.

The "seizures" might fit into this, however, personally, I think these might be manifestations of Casey's extreme anxiety at the situation that she finds herself in.

People with TLE (temporal lobe epilepsy) are frequently misdiagnosed with personality disorders and often use alcohol/drugs to self medicate.

Just throwing that out there. I agree that her behaviour has been reprehensible in every way

 

[elementary]

For what it is worth, I am a RN Psych. Happy to be verified but in UK and not sure how it would work.

I am wondering about a temporal lobe epilepsy syndrome with Casey, episodic dyscontrol being a part of this.
This would show up on an eeg and/or a spect scan or pet scan to a psychiatrist who knows what to look for and would be acceptable as mitigation in a UK court.

The "seizures" might fit into this, however, personally, I think these might be manifestations of Casey's extreme anxiety at the situation that she finds herself in.

People with TLE (temporal lobe epilepsy) are frequently misdiagnosed with personality disorders and often use alcohol/drugs to self medicate.

Just throwing that out there. I agree that her behaviour has been reprehensible in every way

Don't know much about that, but does TLE cause all sufferers to do evil/immoral/amoral things and on a continuous basis?

 

[kaRN]

Does anyone know if there's any psychological reports of Casey Anthony.

Yes JS ordered 2 when she was indited but they're under seal IIRC.

 

[wenwe4]

Narcissists require (to survive) what is called "narcissistic feed". It's like food or oxygen to us.

Narcissistic feed is people adoring them, people telling them how wonderful they are, so it is all about ME, ME, ME. The anger they feel is against someone who has wronged them(or the perceive to have harmed them), they don't have feelings about other people or their hardships or problems.

They are also totally paranoid & think everyone thinks like them & is out to get them.

Any tears they shed, unless it is for themselves, is a learned behavior. Narc's can learn to act like "normal" people from observing when it is the right time to show this or that emotion, but it's all fake.

Deep down, narcissists actually loathe themselves & they need outside gratification to keep convincing themselves how wonderful they are. They can also have multiple personalities & can actually blame one of the other personalities for the wrong doing.

It is a total fantasy world that they live in, in their mind.

They will discard anyone who stops giving them that narcissistic feed, like yesterdays trash.

You see how ICA has turned on her parents? That is because they are not giving her the narc. feed.

As for Caley, she got all the attention from ICA's parents, she took over the spotlight & my guess is ICA could not stand it, she wanted it back.

She see's herself as a celebrity now & can't understand why her parents & everyone else does not.

I will also tell you this, she is LOVING being in court. Look at all this attention just for HER.

She does not believe she will be found guilty, as narcissists feel they are above the law, can rationalize any wrong they have done & they believe that everyone else thinks like they do.

Don't try to analyze their mind, it's like trying to figure out a totally insane person.

That is basically what we are dealing with.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Wow Kinsey, you have nailed it hard!!!! You have just described to a Tee the narcissist that I lived with for many years. I have just been 2 years on the other side of pulling completely out of that relationship with no more contact. No more toxicity and I am finally able to heal. Thank you for reminding me that it was the most cathartic thing I could have ever done.

 

[butwhatif?]

I know that many threads exist about opinion pertaining to KC's mental status, but I don't think that there is a thread about what Ann Finnell has referred to during voir dire as "brain development". Clearly, Finnell is referring to some sort of intellectual disability.

From the beginning the thing that has baffled me along with why Caylee is dead is why didn't KC graduate from high school. A normal middle class girl graduates from high school!

It's a long way to mitigation, but in the meantime, do you have opinions on KC's "brain development"?

For example: Might KC have belonged in a remedial class, but the superior Anthony's couldn't/wouldn't accept that she was "slow"?

What do you think? Discuss!

Hmmmm....This made me think back to one of the earlier transcripts, where George was being asked about Cindys pregnancy.. ie: If their were any complications, if it had been a c-section etc.

I can't remember now what the answers were. Was it a C-section or complicated birth? Anyone remember which transcript this was in?

My DD has an intellectual disability and at every different appt with specialists I'm asked if there were any pregnancy and/or birth complications, because a major theory is that it stems from a traumatic birth.

I'll have to go back over the transcript if I can find it, because the milestones are significant also. (Age of crawling, walking, talking etc) to see if they can try this one as another mitigating factor.

A couple of things I've noticed could fit a few of the LD's out there (and many have co-morbid issues like anxiety/depression) . ICA's constant fidgeting, 'zoning out', inappropriate reactions/facial expressions are just some of them.
Remember that many people who have LD's are of average to above average intelligence, but they have difficulty with certain academics, and seem to excel in the arts...ICA thought she could be a famous singer one day, didn't she?

Even if ICA is found to have an LD- there are many people who aren't dx'ed until they are adults....and it doesn't make them killers.

JMO

 

[LyndyLoo]

Yes JS ordered 2 when she was indited but they're under seal IIRC.

TY..I thought I was recalling another case:waitasec:..I knew ICA had already been evaluated..and since no report has been exposed..assumed it was under seal until or when needed in the trial...

In the meantime..I see the Defense is trying very hard to plant seeds into potential jurors regarding ICA's possible "State of mind" issues..IF nothing more than for mitagation...

TY very much kaRN..:seeya:

 

[LambChop]

I believe there is allycat..but assume they are sealed at this point...but Casey is a manipulator, and those she feels she can control, thus the lashing out at her "Controllers" (family) and "Responsibiities" (Caylee///:-()....She only holds onto relationships that she feels in control of and dismisses , rejects, or blames anyone who does NOT suit her purpose...

Bottomline..Sociopath/Narcissistic personality....NO EXCUSE for murdering an innocent...In the old dayz they termed this as "The Bad Seed" person...who took out any obstacle to her wants and needs by words or deeds!!...Maybe Casey fits in that category!!:twocents:[/QUOTE

They are not brought into the picture until the actual trial? Why would the psychological reports be sealed?

Judge Strickland ordered them first thing to see if she was mentally ill/insane probably because she lied. He then sealed them and, I believe, made the famous statement, "Ms. Anthony and the truth are strangers." Unless they plan on using them in court I think the remain sealed. jmo

 

[badhorsie]

Don't know much about that, but does TLE cause all sufferers to do evil/immoral/amoral things and on a continuous basis?

No, of course it doesn't but a lot of Casey's abhorrent behaviour could be down to poor impulse control, exacerbated by drug and alcohol use.
I am talking about grandiosity,allegedly cashing mums checks, stealing from friends and allegedly, the killing of her baby daughter

More difficult to explain are her lies and dishonesty, That has nothing to do with any kind of syndrome.

I am not making excuses for her, I am discussing this on an intellectual level, I am personally disgusted by her