Resolved LA - Tallulah, WhtFem Skeletal 163UFLA, 19-23, Dec'94 - Name not found

[Mensch]

Carl,
I don't understand dentals. I just know if they appear the same or if there are visible frontal "ridges", chips or discolorations to compare. I have seen dental charts explained Left to Right when actually they are Right to Left. BTW, this is common in reading x rays of arms and legs and why it is so important to include (viewing R or L) just in case a photo image was reversed before printing.

Can you explain what is on NamUS regarding their UP?

Amalgam fillings noted on occlusal surfaces of teeth #2,14,18,19,30 and 31. Amalgam fillings noted on the buccal surfaces of teeth #18,30 and 3

I understand what a filling is but what is relevant regarding the two surface descriptions?
I hate to see a good possible match discarded based on a possible sloppy entry. stuff happens and more often than not or else the long list of missing would not be so long.

 

[CarlK90245]

Carl,
I don't understand dentals. I just know if they appear the same or if there are visible frontal "ridges", chips or discolorations to compare. I have seen dental charts explained Left to Right when actually they are Right to Left. BTW, this is common in reading x rays of arms and legs and why it is so important to include (viewing R or L) just in case a photo image was reversed before printing.

Can you explain what is on NamUS regarding their UP?

Amalgam fillings noted on occlusal surfaces of teeth #2,14,18,19,30 and 31. Amalgam fillings noted on the buccal surfaces of teeth #18,30 and 31

I understand what a filling is but what is relevant regarding the two surface descriptions?
I hate to see a good possible match discarded based on a possible sloppy entry. stuff happens and more often than not or else the long list of missing would not be so long.

Amalgam is a mercury alloy used in dental fillings. The occlusal surface is the top of a molar (i.e., the portion that contacts with the opposing tooth), or in other words, the chewing surface. A buccal surface is the portion of the tooth adjacent to the cheek.

Edit to Add: On a chart, a filled tooth is notated with a "F", regardless of where on the tooth the filling is located.

 

[CarlK90245]

I should add that I remember a conversation with Hal Brown of the Delaware ME office during which he said that he had to re-enter the dental charts in NCIC for all 17 of their UID's because they were previously entered incorrectly.

And as you probably recall, Buckskin Girl's dental chart was wrong until they corrected it.

 

[Mensch]

Thanks Carl. So now if you would please explain what I am missing with the NamUS site. Since this UP has such an unusual set of teeth (my opinion) why is there no explanation in the comments. If I had just read the dental entry I would not have known to look for the unusual set of teeth without seeing it on another site. Is the "O" supposed to be there to describe the placement of the tooth?

 

[CarlK90245]

Thanks Carl. So now if you would please explain what I am missing with the NamUS site. Since this UP has such an unusual set of teeth (my opinion) why is there no explanation in the comments. If I had just read the dental entry I would not have known to look for the unusual set of teeth without seeing it on another site. Is the "O" supposed to be there to describe the placement of the tooth?

The grid of the dental chart only describes the individual teeth, and not necessarily any anomalies in arrangement with respect to each other. However, the arrangement anomalies should be discussed in the comments section below the dental chart.

An "O" on the chart would be used to note a characteristic not covered by the available letter-codes, such as a chip or excessive decay.

Also, the person comparing the charts can't assume that the dental records being evaluated represent the most current dentition. The missing person could have had more recent dental work of which the family was not aware.

So for example, a filling in tooth #3 of the UID would not be considered irreconcilable to an unfilled tooth #3 of the MP.

But a filling in tooth #3 of the MP would be considered irreconcilably inconsistent to an unfilled tooth #3 of the UID.

 

[CarlK90245]

I received a reply from Helen Bouzon regarding Anjanette Piotrowski:

Carl,
I got Anjanette’s dental records. If the information entered is correct then she cannot be our unidentified remains based on 2 teeth.
Helen

That caviated wording seemed to leave a little wiggle room. I'm wondering if she doubts the reliability of AP's dental charts. I've seen numerous instances of errors in dental charts.

Considering how extensive the dental work was for the Jane Doe, inconsistencies on only two teeth seems pretty close.

I e-mailed Helen back, asking if she had reason to doubt the reliability of the charts. She replied as follows:

... Almost all of Anjannette’s teeth are listed as “virgin” meaning there has been no work done to them. The dental work present in the remains could conceivably have been completed after the date of Anjannette’s available records. The only way to rule her out is based on things present in her records that are not present in the remains. According to the records, Anjannette is missing 2 teeth that are present in the remains so the two cannot match.

So, this wasn't a case of all but two teeth being consistent. Rather, all but two weren't irreconcilably inconsistent.

And in reality, the dental charts were not that close.

 

[webrocket]

here are a couple that seem to fit the general description. not all describe dentals:

Shaylene Farrell - OH, lka 8/8/94, 5'3", 135
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1306/3/

Dedra Bracken - LA, lka 7/14/92, 5'6", 140
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/4058/16/

Dedra is a little heavier than the UID, but if she was on the move for a couple of years she could have lost weight.

 

[webrocket]

sorry we can eliminate Shaylene. her dentals are described here:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/farrell_shaylene.html

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Bumped into Lorraine Light while looking for someone else, and noticed the teeth. Just throwing the long shot out there.


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/light_lorraine.html

 

[CarlK90245]

here are a couple that seem to fit the general description. not all describe dentals:

Shaylene Farrell - OH, lka 8/8/94, 5'3", 135
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1306/3/

Dedra Bracken - LA, lka 7/14/92, 5'6", 140
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/4058/16/

Dedra is a little heavier than the UID, but if she was on the move for a couple of years she could have lost weight.

Dedra is listed in Charley as Dedra Michelle Saxon

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/saxon_dedra.html
Nothing obvious to eliminate, but I'm not sure I can get real excited about her as a possible without seeing her teeth.

 

[webrocket]

Dedra is listed in Charley as Dedra Michelle Saxon

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/saxon_dedra.html
Nothing obvious to eliminate, but I'm not sure I can get real excited about her as a possible without seeing her teeth.

I hear you Carl but without any description of her dentals and the fact the remains were skeletonized, the composites do not always resemble the deceased.

At least Dedra has some proximity to the area where the body was found.

 

[carbuff]

Dedra is listed in Charley as Dedra Michelle Saxon

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/saxon_dedra.html
Nothing obvious to eliminate, but I'm not sure I can get real excited about her as a possible without seeing her teeth.

She certainly seems worth checking out.

 

[webrocket]

I sent an email to the address given in the Doe Network flyer inquiring about Dedra Bracken a/k/a Dedra Michelle Saxon.

as soon as I hear anything I will let everyone know.

 

[webrocket]

got an acknowledgement of my submission:


Thanks xxxxx. I’ll look into this.

Nicole deL. Harris

this faces unit is pretty attentive!

 

[webrocket]

I sent a follow up email last week to the woman who responded last time and I got no word back yet.

 

[webrocket]

received this message today:

Sorry for the late response. Things have been super busy over here. I checked again on this comparison and we are waiting for dentals and/or DNA from law enforcement to be able to do an accurate comparison. Once we receive one of the two we will be able to make a call on this case. Thanks for checking in.



Nicole deL. Harris

LSU FACES Lab


so they are working on it. great news.

 

[webrocket]

I last followed up a couple of months ago with no further word. I guess these ME offices are too busy with the recently deceased than to worry about UIDs long dead and buried.

don't mean that to sound sarcastic but these offices only have so many people working in them so if they have to prioritize, I would think a recent murder victim trumps a 17 y.o. mystery.

 

[webrocket]

sent a follow up on this one too.

 

[webrocket]

got this response:

We do not have dental records on Dedra to be able to do a dental comparison. However, both she and the unidentified’s samples are in CODIS so if they are a match then they will hit upon one another. Thank you.

I looked back at the profiles and did a little head scratching.

I sent this follow up:


thank you for your response.

the DNA thing is interesting as Dedra's just says "available and entered" while the UID's says that nuclear DNA is on file with the FBI.

there is no way for a casual reader of the Namus profiles to know which DNA type of Dedra's is on file - nuclear or mitochondrial. if Dedra only has mitochondrial DNA on file, it is my understanding that the two different types of DNA will not produce a match so this might not be an automatic Codis rule out.

 

[webrocket]

somehow I doubt I am going to get a response to my last email.

I decided to email the contact person for Debra Bracken, Helen Bouzon.

this was what I asked:

Dear Ms. Bouzon,

you are listed as the contact person for a missing person from Lousiana, Dedra Bracken.

I am a private citizen who tries to help match missing persons to unidentified deceaseds.

I do have one question regarding Dedra that I hope you might be able to clear up. In her DNA section, it states "Sample submitted - Tests complete". do you know which type of DNA they have for Dedra, i.e. mtDNA or nucDNA or both?

Dedra's name has been mentioned as possible matches for one or another UID but some UIDs have only one type so it is not clear whether Dedra would be ruled out or if the samples are mismatches.

I would appreciate any feedback on the subject. Dedra's Namus page is here for reference.


Let's see what if any response I get.

ETA - my hunch is that they have only mitochondrial DNA for Dedra from a hair sample or other family member. if that hunch is correct, she is not automatically ruled out on UIDs which have only nuclear DNA on file.