Last Christmas of JonBenet by L. Smith

[daffodil]

I am not saying that John and Patsy told them the truth. I don't know the conversation. It is attorney/client privilege. Westerfield's lawyer knew he had killed that little girl. O'Reilly went crazy over that.

I am not saying John called his lawyer and said Patsy killed Jon Benet but it was an accident, what should we do? I am saying John would have called his lawyer had he not wanted to alarm the kidnappers. But he called 911 and I have no doubt at some point, he called his lawyers (after 911) and they were on the scene early afternoon after JonBenet was found - investigators from Team Ramsey were questioning Fleet White and his wife that afternoon. Mike Bynum called them that evening.

At some point that day, he called his lawyers.

Ah right.Sorry I misunderstood,I thought you were meaning the lawyers were called BEFORE 911 and told what happened-thats what I meant by a cover up.

 

[Solace]

Ah right.Sorry I misunderstood,I thought you were meaning the lawyers were called BEFORE 911 and told what happened-thats what I meant by a cover up.

Hi Daffodil,

I really doubt that John told his lawyers anything like that. But I suspect that Bynum formed his opinion that evening when he told John that the police suspected him and Patsy and he asked if John trusted him and John said yes, you take over.

There are ways of talking about things.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

That's what I thought too. Thank God I've never met anyone like the Ramseys.
Actually, I'm glad they left Jacques w/the Barnhills. I'm sure he was happy there.

Same here. I have no doubt that the Barnhills were able to provide the best home for Jacques and that he was very happy with them.

 

[Squishified]

Same here. I have no doubt that the Barnhills were able to provide the best home for Jacques and that he was very happy with them.

It's weird how the Ramseys had NO attachment to Jacques.

 

[coloradokares]

I am not saying that John and Patsy told them the truth. I don't know the conversation. It is attorney/client privilege. Westerfield's lawyer knew he had killed that little girl. O'Reilly went crazy over that.

I am not saying John called his lawyer and said Patsy killed Jon Benet but it was an accident, what should we do? I am saying John would have called his lawyer had he not wanted to alarm the kidnappers. But he called 911 and I have no doubt at some point, he called his lawyers (after 911) and they were on the scene early afternoon after JonBenet was found - investigators from Team Ramsey were questioning Fleet White and his wife that afternoon. Mike Bynum called them that evening.

At some point that day, he called his lawyers.

Have you considered that help, political or legal or at least people from high places were called much sooner and that it is entirely possible that important calls were were placed via those cell phones that we cant get the records to that call(s) were placed even before that. More like in the wee hours; now to prove that in a conspiracy of silence. GOOD LUCK! I would admittedly be what is it Super Dave calls spitballing .... But that is gut level feeling I get. I am asking have you ever asked what if, And Why JR said things were awful busy at 3 am not pm but am? I dont KNOW anything but how the good ole boy network could have worked and the power of influence it could have carried. I think anyone who has really studied this case has to ask themselves at some point what if............ is that even possible ????

 

[Squishified]

Good post ck!!
I wanted to post something similar but you have a much better way with words than I

I rule out NOTHING when it comes to the cover-up of this case. Absolutely anything is possible.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

It's weird how the Ramseys had NO attachment to Jacques.

Especially after the daughter who wanted the dog in the first place is murdered. You better believe if my daughter was murdered, I would dote on her beloved little dog...if nothing else, to honor her and make sure the pet she loved was taken good care of for her.

I've often been shocked how the Rs seemed to have little more than a superficial attachment to JonBenet as well. I think JR was emotionally distant to his second family from the word go, but I believe Patsy loved JB as much as was possible for her (loved her to death)...I just can't understand J&P making themselves and their own personal agenda so much more important than working with LE to find this killer and get justice for their child who was killed. IMO, the Rs let JB down harder than the parents of any other murdered child I have ever heard of. Simply shocking.

I won't even get into the fact that Patsy sent Jacques to the Barnhills mostly because he wasn't properly housebroken and she didn't want to have to deal with it, and how that relates to JonBenet's situation with being unable to stay dry herself.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Good post ck!!
I wanted to post something similar but you have a much better way with words than I

I rule out NOTHING when it comes to the cover-up of this case. Absolutely anything is possible.

I second "Good post ck!!" I have the same exact suspicions about the Rs making calls before the 911 call. It's just too convenient that the phone records cannot be obtained for so long and are completely blank when they are.

I still CANNOT believe Hunter told ST to build a rapport with the Rs and then politely request that they hand over possibly incriminating information, rather than give him search warrants. Who does that??? Name one other murder investigation in which the police were told by the DA to buddy-up with the prime suspects and say "please and thank you" to get phone records.

Totally insane and ridiculous.

 

[Solace]

Have you considered that help, political or legal or at least people from high places were called much sooner and that it is entirely possible that important calls were were placed via those cell phones that we cant get the records to that call(s) were placed even before that. More like in the wee hours; now to prove that in a conspiracy of silence. GOOD LUCK! I would admittedly be what is it Super Dave calls spitballing .... But that is gut level feeling I get. I am asking have you ever asked what if, And Why JR said things were awful busy at 3 am not pm but am? I dont KNOW anything but how the good ole boy network could have worked and the power of influence it could have carried. I think anyone who has really studied this case has to ask themselves at some point what if............ is that even possible ????

YES, YES AND YES???

Great post Colorado. John's subconscious is just all over the place isn't it.

 

[coloradokares]

I second "Good post ck!!" I have the same exact suspicions about the Rs making calls before the 911 call. It's just too convenient that the phone records cannot be obtained for so long and are completely blank when they are.

I still CANNOT believe Hunter told ST to build a rapport with the Rs and then politely request that they hand over possibly incriminating information, rather than give him search warrants. Who does that??? Name one other murder investigation in which the police were told by the DA to buddy-up with the prime suspects and say "please and thank you" to get phone records.

Totally insane and ridiculous.

I know it! As to naming another investgation in which the police were told to buddy up with the prime suspects and say "please and thank you" to get the phone records, ahem :waitasec: :waitasec: nope nothing comes to mind!

 

[Solace]

I know it! As to naming another investgation in which the police were told to buddy up with the prime suspects and say "please and thank you" to get the phone records, ahem :waitasec: :waitasec: nope nothing comes to mind!

Anyone know the reason that was given for not getting the phone records?

 

[Ames]

Anyone know the reason that was given for not getting the phone records?

No, but I found these...

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t1610.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=da...-PjYy&sig=vOMmuycGaYXkqppSrAP8uDPVASI#PPP1,M1

 

[DeeDee249]

What I dont understand though is WHY lawyers would go along with a cover up? Surely they would advise them to come clean because if the truth came out and it was found the lawyers knew about it would they risk their reputations etc for John and Patsy?

Defense laywers work a little differently. PLEASE no offense meant to anyone here who may be or know a defense attorney. Here is the logic (if you want to call it that) IF they NEVER KNOW or ASK about the guilt of the client, then they cannot be a part of a coverup. So they will not ask. Defense attorneys can then defend a client, even a guilty one, by preventing information that points to their guilt from being brought into evidence. One way is to prevent their client from answering any incriminating questions about the crime. Another is to block incriminating information from being discovered through search warrents and supoenas.
It is my belief that calls WERE made in the hours between 12 midnight and that 911 call. The process of keeping the Rs out of jail was put in motion at that point. They got to Hunter, whose lazy manner of law inforcement was to take no case to trial and make no waves.
There is simply no other explanation for Hunter's refusal to allow those phone records to be obtained.
One other thing- just because a lawyer doesn't ASK doesn't mean they don't know or think their client is guilty. And if there were no suspicious phone calls made why NOT allow a search. In this case, they were called and they KNEW.
And no, they are not required to SAY they know of their client's guilt. They are only required to NOT LIE in court. The R lawyers show time and again that their clients ARE guilty- for all of the aformentioned reasons.

 

[JMO8778]

Dee,I don't recall who it was,but it was a well-known attorney I saw on a crime show several yrs ago...I don't recall the case,but he was asked the question,'what would be the first thing you would do for your clients in this case?' And he said,in *any case,I would first sit them down and ask them 'What happened?????'

 

[JMO8778]

IMO, the Rs let JB down harder than the parents of any other murdered child I have ever heard of. Simply shocking.

it is.I've often thought so as well.It's sheer betrayal also.That's just as bad as murder,IMO.And if the R's think God will forgive them for that,that they're justified somehow in betraying her,I believe they are sorely wrong.very wrong.I've been through enough negative situations to *know that God does hold ppl accountable in the next life.they're wrong in thinking they can publicly lie and even point the finger at innocent ppl and still go to that heaven of theirs.

I won't even get into the fact that Patsy sent Jacques to the Barnhills mostly because he wasn't properly housebroken and she didn't want to have to deal with it, and how that relates to JonBenet's situation with being unable to stay dry herself.

good point,I hadn't thought of that.I think JB's underwear shows that Patsy was lazy in cleaning up JB,and didn't really want to be bothered cleaning her very well.I'm not sure the fact she had so many pairs of dirty underwear was from abuse.I know some experts concluded that,but Thomas believes that wasn't the case and he must have had more info on the corporal cleaning to make that a deciding factor,IMO.

 

[DeeDee249]

I am sure many attorneys would do that. Then they plan a defense based either how to prevent a jury from hearing incriminating information, or in the case of obvious guilt, an insantity/self defense plea or some other extenuating circumstances.
But defense lawyers don't have to ask that. Asking what happened doesn't always mean they will be told the truth.
In the R case, one of the lawyers had said that he didn't ask if they were guilty and said he would never "insult" the R by asking.

 

[JMO8778]

But defense lawyers don't have to ask that. Asking what happened doesn't always mean they will be told the truth.

oh by no means I'm sure ! Esp. w the R's.I have to wonder what they did say in those pre 911 calls.my guess would be something along the lines of 'we found our daughter dead in our basement,what do we do now??? we know we're going to be the first suspects....',or something along those lines.If the note was mentioned at all,(I have to say at all,because they put in it not to call LE),then I suspect it was mentioned as nothing other than just a standard KN note,as in we have your child,ransom gets her back,etc.any thoughts on what they would have said,anyone??? I'm just having a hard time thinking the lawyers would have told them to call 911 right away,knowing the contents of the whole note,but I could be wrong.

 

[DeeDee249]

We'll never know. Even if those phone records were ever made available, they probably were not recorded, so it'd be impossible to prove what was said. It IS hard to imagine any lawyer telling a friend who has told them that their daughter was just accidentally killed to do all the staging that was done to JBR. BUT IF they were told that, let's say, "my wife just accidentally killed our daughter in a fit of rage" or "my wife just slammed our daughter's head into the tub/sink/whatever and now she's not moving; we think she's dead" WHAT DO WE DO?
THEN I could imagine their friend/lawyer saying simply "Make it look like an accident, then call 911".

 

[JMO8778]

We'll never know. Even if those phone records were ever made available, they probably were not recorded, so it'd be impossible to prove what was said. It IS hard to imagine any lawyer telling a friend who has told them that their daughter was just accidentally killed to do all the staging that was done to JBR. BUT IF they were told that, let's say, "my wife just accidentally killed our daughter in a fit of rage" or "my wife just slammed our daughter's head into the tub/sink/whatever and now she's not moving; we think she's dead" WHAT DO WE DO?
THEN I could imagine their friend/lawyer saying simply "Make it look like an accident, then call 911".

good point.
And I imagine if they'd read that ridiculous note to a lawyer,whether they admitted writing it or not,he'd have told them to burn it ! But I agree,and no way would an attorney ever tell them to leave behind 3 pages of their own handwriting.I just don't think they even knew there was a note until later,unless JR didn't elaborate on it very much.

 

[JMO8778]

BUT IF they were told that, let's say, "my wife just accidentally killed our daughter in a fit of rage" or "my wife just slammed our daughter's head into the tub/sink/whatever and now she's not moving; we think she's dead" WHAT DO WE DO?
THEN I could imagine their friend/lawyer saying simply "Make it look like an accident, then call 911".

but, it was staged a murder..why make it look worse than it is? for some reason,(maybe the marks on her neck and or sexual abuse),it *had to appear to be done by an intruder.so I'm not sure that JR would say that it was an accident done by Patsy...they were too far gone for that,due to the appearance of her body and or what might be found upon autopsy.I'm guessing more like he said they'd found JB dead in the basement and they have a RN,author unknown,or maybe they even lied and said BR did it accidentally,now they don't want him to realize it,so they stage an intruder.but it seems the staging was already done before any lawyers were called,IMO.