Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.07.17 - Charge to the Jury - Day 1

[winter2017]

Yes -- if LE's attention wasn't drawn to her in another way.

No -- based on them being fingered, and the evidence as presented in this trial.

yes they would have.

 

[billandrew]

Combining the cell ping data with other evidence from July 3 evening:

• DM picks up LB from Kipling Station around 6:30-6:40pm.
• They arrive back at Maple Gate around 7pm.
• LB's phone checks voicemail at 7:03pm. The phone is never used again.
• At 7:08pm, DM takes a call from (416) 358-2110 that lasts a bit over 6 minutes.
• Shortly after that call, DM leaves Maple Gate and drives north on the 427 highway.
• At 7:31pm, DM's and LB's phones ping near 407/427 junction, which is near the Claireville Conservation area where CN was working at a kid's camp. We don't know if CN was actually there at that time, but it's peculiar that DM (and possibly LB, too) went to that general area. Also peculiar that the Crown presented some evidence about CN working there.
• DM gets back home around 8:20pm.
• After 8:23pm, no activity is logged on DM's or MS's phones until 12:42am. I'm guessing after DM got home he brought MS into the "Laura situation".
• CN messages DM, "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things ." We have no context for this message. Did she know something was up that night? Is she the one who called and spoke to DM for 6 minutes around 7:08pm? Did DM take LB to see her around 7:30pm?

 

[Shaz14]

Combining the cell ping data with other evidence from July 3 evening:

• DM picks up LB from Kipling Station around 6:30-6:40pm.
• They arrive back at Maple Gate around 7pm.
• LB's phone checks voicemail at 7:03pm. The phone is never used again.
• At 7:08pm, DM takes a call from (416) 358-2110 that lasts a bit over 6 minutes.
• Shortly after that call, DM leaves Maple Gate and drives north on the 427 highway.
• At 7:31pm, DM's and LB's phones ping near 407/427 junction, which is near the Claireville Conservation area where CN was working at a kid's camp. We don't know if CN was actually there at that time, but it's peculiar that DM (and possibly LB, too) went to that general area. Also peculiar that the Crown presented some evidence about CN working there.
• DM gets back home around 8:20pm.
• After 8:23pm, no activity is logged on DM's or MS's phones until 12:42am. I'm guessing after DM got home he brought MS into the "Laura situation".
• CN messages DM, "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things ." We have no context for this message. Did she know something was up that night? Is she the one who called and spoke to DM for 6 minutes around 7:08pm? Did DM take LB to see her around 7:30pm?

Do you know what was meant by the text about the "Laura situation"? I saw that reference earlier but I wasn't sure where that wording came from.

 

[Shaz14]

Boy you guys never quit! lol as this ping talk started, it was just like in a movie that you think has ended, but this funky music starts to play and the main characters are at it again! good for you! I do not know T.O.

This is the first time that we have really seen the map of the pings I think. It seems so much clearer now....or more complicated... I dunno. All I know is I have sooo many more questions!

 

[billandrew]

Do you know what was meant by the text about the "Laura situation"?

Somebody on this forum postulated that Jill Cameron was just making a general reference when she said that, rather than quoting an actual text message containing those words.

 

[Shaz14]

Can anyone tell from the phone records which number was CN's? I'm curious to know when her and DM communicated....

 

[Oreck]

RSBM.
When you dial 911 from a cell phone, the dispatcher receives what is called an "uncertainty radius" of anywhere from a few to several hundreds of metres, identifying a certain cellular tower as the centrepoint.

Would the same data not be able to be extrapolated from these pings?

Your cell-tower center-points are a few miles apart.
You tell me.

 

[billandrew]

The only thing I don't follow with that is that the 407 is license plate recorded. Unless he had a transponder. Wouldn't there be a record of him travelling the 407? I feel they would have definitely been able to trace him better had he used the 407.

Good point. He didn't necessarily drive on the 407, but his and LB's phones pinged in the general area where the 427 meets the 407. About 30 minutes later, his phone pinged a tower way to the south (and bit west) at 5444 Dixie Rd in Mississauga. It seems he was making his way eastward along the 401 to get back home, but that would suggest he took a long route around to the west of Claireville and then south through Mississauga, rather than just hopping back on the 427 south from Claireville to his house.

 

[billandrew]

From Day 19 of the trial:

CBC Live Blog

The Crown calls the next witness, Julie Gallie. She's a community recreation programmer, from Claireville Conservation Area, a job she's held since 2012.

She knows Christina Noudga. Noudga was a staff person at the centre in 2012.

Noudga was a camp counsellor, overseeing children taking part in summer programming.

Gallie tells the court camp counsellors were not allowed to use their cell phones while they were monitoring the children.

Crown Ken Lockhart concludes this very brief line of questioning to the witness.

Millard and Mark Smich's lawyer, Thomas Dungey, have no questions.

Lisa Hepfner

Julie Gallie is the next witness. Community recreation programmer for the city of Toronto. They run a Clairville (sp?) day camp in the summer. Gallie is in charge of the staff, and preparation of the camp.

Kids go to camp July-August. She's been doing the job since 2010. Christina Noudga was one of the employees working there in 2012. Not after 2012. Kids at camp are aged 6-16, bussed in.

Noudga was a camp counsellor "so she was overseeing a group of children all day every day." Noudga would have rode in on the bus with the kids, as bus monitor, making sure everyone got on etc. 21 stops through Etobicoke. Noudga would get on at Brown's Line

Councillors were not allowed to use their phones while at work, they were aged 17-mid 20's. Gallie agrees they weren't allowed to use phones but they didn't have oversight all the time. Millard & Dungey no questions. She is done.

 

[musicaljoke]

The only thing I don't follow with that is that the 407 is license plate recorded. Unless he had a transponder. Wouldn't there be a record of him travelling the 407? I feel they would have definitely been able to trace him better had he used the 407.

Did we hear during the TB trial that he had a special license plate cover that hid his plate number from the 407ETR cameras? Is there not also a conversation about plate covers in billandrew's timeline?

ETA .. I see that the conversation was about backing plates, and not about the license plates.

Schlatman texts Millard: "You will likely have to drive Olds a few more days. Can't get backing plates for this Yukon easily."
Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 5:40 pm Babcock texts Millard: [message unknown]. Babcock Day 9: Rebelo testimony
Jul 3 6:11 pm Millard texts Babcock: [message unknown]. Babcock Day 9: Rebelo testimony
Jul 3 6:15 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "didn't expect plates to be done this week, just everything else." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 6:16 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "No this is backing plates for the parking brakes. They are rusted away and need to be there." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 6:16 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "Hopefully will have them tomorrow sometime." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 6:16 pm Babcock calls Millard. 2 min call.

 

[Just4TB]

Can anyone tell from the phone records which number was CN's? I'm curious to know when her and DM communicated....

The only reference I can locate is from Exhibit 37 in the Tim Bosma Trial.
Within that exhibit, CN's phone was

RogersPhone 647-801-2580 – CN

It spelled out her full name, and the exhibit was created by:

Ontario Provincial Police
Created by: Phil Wilkinson
Date: February 8, 2016

It is possible that her phone number had been changed following the earlier LB murder, so this exhibit does not rule out the 416 number calling DM, as being CN,

 

[mozzagirl]

Maybe the purpose of the super brief testimony from the camp lady was just to show that where DM and LB's phones pinged near Claireville on the night of July 3 is right near where CN worked. Short and sweet evidence from that witness and with it is another possible puzzle piece when looking at the totality of evidence.

So supposedly, DM and LB go up to see CN at her work around 730pm on July 3 and then three hours later CN texts DM, "have fun doing big things".

It paints some context to that text from CN to know that DM and LB's phones ping near her work not long before.

All MOO.

IMO, I think it won't take long for the verdict to be returned as guilty of M1 for both accused. I will be downtown a week today and will be blocks from the courthouse. You better believe if they return the verdict that day I will find a way to be in the room as it is read!!

 

[canadiangirl]

Wow I missed a lot today. Totally agree with the phone pings. Too coincidental IMO
Thanks for transcribing everyone!

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[Tealgrove]

DM picks up Laura and comes back to Maple Gate. Laura checks her voicemail at 7:03 and her phone is never used again. A few minutes after Laura checks her voicemail, DM tells MS he's going on a mission. Laura's phone and DM's phone travel up to the Claireville area and then end up in Mississauga and back to Maple Gate.

Could Laura have asked DM to take her somewhere? When she checked her messages, maybe she remembered that she needed to go somewhere and get something?

Could the whole mattress thing be a red herring?

Could DM have killed Laura in the car (that was the mission)? Which would mean that MS wasn't there for the actual murder.

Day Camps usually end around 3:00 - 4:00 pm. CN would have rode the bus back with the kids. Got off at Browns Line (where she was picked up) and gone home. I don't think he went up to Claireville to see CN. Maybe he thought he would kill her up there away from everyone but it was too busy? Now he had to come back and do it at the house. Maybe a spot he had seen or scouted previously?

Why would he go up to the Claireville area?

Just thinking here...the murder of TB was VERY unorganized. VERY messy, even though it was planned. It was ridiculously sloppy. And those guys drove all over the place that night. It was like they had no idea where they were going. But they went there knowing they were going to kill Tim.

LB's murder was planned as well. Again, we have the driving around all over the place. I think Laura was with him and still alive. The Crown believes she was murdered at Maple Gate and they know more than us so I'm going to go with the Crown's contention that Laura was killed at Maplegate.

Ah....she didn't use her phone after 7:03 because the battery was low? DM slipped up and said he didn't have a charger for her Blackberry when he picked her up. She had enough battery life to check messages and then was on "fumes" and didn't use her phone while in the car? It had enough battery life to ping but maybe she chose not to use it to preserve the battery until she could charge it?

What was the mission? That was the code word for something nefarious. That whole crew new what a "mission" meant.

Sorry...I know I'm all over the place but the timing of the pings, the texts, the checking of voicemail, the locations of the pings, and all the driving is driving me crazy.

ALL MOO and my ramblings.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

The only reference I can locate is from Exhibit 37 in the Tim Bosma Trial.
Within that exhibit, CN's phone was

RogersPhone 647-801-2580 – CN

It spelled out her full name, and the exhibit was created by:

Ontario Provincial Police
Created by: Phil Wilkinson
Date: February 8, 2016

It is possible that her phone number had been changed following the earlier LB murder, so this exhibit does not rule out the 416 number calling DM, as being CN,

That’s a possibility of new number because her phone conveniently got stolen as she testified to at TB trial.

ETA: tel416) 358-2110 is a Rogers number and CN is Rogers. So seems highly likely. Also did d we not see this number in the TB trial? Seems familiar for some reason.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

You mean when DM broke up with CN for even talking to Boris? Clearly showing they were not in an open relationship?

Hi Grey-St ... thank you so much for answering my query about the “Laura situation” last night. You are always so helpful.

I am wondering if you can point me to any info about this “Boris”? I have followed these cases for years now, especially on WebSleuths, and read Ann Bro’s book and everything else I could find, but don’t ever remember hearing about Boris before. Could, however, just be a “senior moment”, lol.

Once again, thank you. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JuneBug67]

Hi Grey-St ... thank you so much for answering my query about the “Laura situation” last night. You are always so helpful.

I am wondering if you can point me to any info about this “Boris”? I have followed these cases for years now, especially on WebSleuths, and read Ann Bro’s book and everything else I could find, but don’t ever remember hearing about Boris before. Could, however, just be a “senior moment”, lol.

Once again, thank you. [emoji4]


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Boris is somebody who came up in this trial for the first time. He was a friend and/or lover of Christina, and the cause of a fight between DM and her in early June of 2012. It was revealed through texts from DM to her that DM had accused her of texting Boris to initiate sex. As a result he told her he wasn’t caling her his gf any more, but the tiff was short lived. You can see the texts in Billandrew’s timeline. And that’s all we know about Boris!

 

[JuneBug67]

Did we hear during the TB trial that he had a special license plate cover that hid his plate number from the 407ETR cameras? Is there not also a conversation about plate covers in billandrew's timeline?

ETA .. I see that the conversation was about backing plates, and not about the license plates.

Schlatman texts Millard: "You will likely have to drive Olds a few more days. Can't get backing plates for this Yukon easily."
Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 5:40 pm Babcock texts Millard: [message unknown]. Babcock Day 9: Rebelo testimony
Jul 3 6:11 pm Millard texts Babcock: [message unknown]. Babcock Day 9: Rebelo testimony
Jul 3 6:15 pm Millard texts Schlatman: "didn't expect plates to be done this week, just everything else." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 6:16 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "No this is backing plates for the parking brakes. They are rusted away and need to be there." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 6:16 pm Schlatman texts Millard: "Hopefully will have them tomorrow sometime." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 6:16 pm Babcock calls Millard. 2 min call.

With regard to the plate covers, I remember that as an observation made here from photos of the Yukon. I might be misremembering though!

 

[Stratocaster]

Combining the cell ping data with other evidence from July 3 evening:

• DM picks up LB from Kipling Station around 6:30-6:40pm.
• They arrive back at Maple Gate around 7pm.
• LB's phone checks voicemail at 7:03pm. The phone is never used again.
• At 7:08pm, DM takes a call from (416) 358-2110 that lasts a bit over 6 minutes.
• Shortly after that call, DM leaves Maple Gate and drives north on the 427 highway.
• At 7:31pm, DM's and LB's phones ping near 407/427 junction, which is near the Claireville Conservation area where CN was working at a kid's camp. We don't know if CN was actually there at that time, but it's peculiar that DM (and possibly LB, too) went to that general area. Also peculiar that the Crown presented some evidence about CN working there.
• DM gets back home around 8:20pm.
• After 8:23pm, no activity is logged on DM's or MS's phones until 12:42am. I'm guessing after DM got home he brought MS into the "Laura situation".
• CN messages DM, "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things ." We have no context for this message. Did she know something was up that night? Is she the one who called and spoke to DM for 6 minutes around 7:08pm? Did DM take LB to see her around 7:30pm?

He's now in dire need of a new mattress, the crime happened on the mattress imo

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Boris is somebody who came up in this trial for the first time. He was a friend and/or lover of Christina, and the cause of a fight between DM and her in early June of 2012. It was revealed through texts from DM to her that DM had accused her of texting Boris to initiate sex. As a result he told her he wasn’t caling her his gf any more, but the tiff was short lived. You can see the texts in Billandrew’s timeline. And that’s all we know about Boris!

Thank you so much, JuneBug! It must have been a “senior moment” for me then because I have read every line of BillAndrew’s superb timeline. [emoji4]


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