Let me hear from you if you think the R's are innocent

I don't get *advertiser censored*, nor do I seek it out. IMO it's disgusting...
I still don't believe it was a sexual predator, but was made to look like it could be to draw attention towards those types...and away from the real killer.

I've never ever seen another case where the child was killed and hidden within the home and an obviously fake ransom note was found.

Then again parents of child victims do like Mark Klass, John Walsh, the vanDam's, Mark Lunsford and countless other normal parents have done. As Mark Lunsford said, "you do everything you're asked to do"..you don't stall off the cops for months, go on CNN the day after you bury your daughter and tell your story before you've even really talked to the cops...
 
Seeker - people handle things differently. There are hardly any victims above reproach, look at what was happening to the Lunsfords before the truth came out. And the Van Dams. And everyone else, when the truth isn't quickly discovered. The victims become the suspects.

In Smit's theory, the predator WAS trying to get JonBenet out of the house, and couldn't do it.

Now let me ask you this. What are the odds that the parents would call the cops, knowing their dead daughter they killed is lying there in the house? These Ramseys aren't unsophisiticated *advertiser censored* like some people who think the body won't be discovered, if they put her body there, they KNEW it would be found once they called the cops. Despite the fact that this is an out of the way room in the house. Only a boob would think that body wouldn't be found.

I really believe that people who think the Ramsey's did this are "looking too closely at the elephant". If you stand and look at an elephant two inches away from your nose, with a magnifying glass, you'll never be able to grasp what the elephant really is. You have to stand back 5 yards to SEE the elephant.

Does this case really look like the parents did it to you? When you stand back and look at it? Also, you really have to put aside notions of normal people, and normal sexual behavior, and put aside notions that deviants would definately rape her. They wouldn't.
 
Seeker said:
JonBenet was not raped. /QUOTE]


Seeker,

It's not known for sure whether JonBenet was raped or not. The evidence suggests she was raped.

From page 56 in PMPT pb:

"During the autopsy, Meyer had told Arndt and Trujillo that JonBenet had suffered an injury consistent with vaginal penetration -- digital or otherwise. In his opinion, she'd sustained some kind of genital trauma that could be consistent with sexual contact."

IOW, it could have been from a finger, or from the stick, or from a prepubescent penis, or any combination of these.

JonBenet's hymen was gone except for a rim of tissue between the 10 and 2 o'clock positions, and she had sustained acute and chronic injuries to the vagina. IOW, JonBenet had been sexually abused prior to the night she died.

There were acute and chronic injuries at the same 7 o'clock position of the hymenal orifice, which itself, at 1 cm, was approximately twice the size it should have been. Both injuries at the same location 7 o'clock position suggest the same person caused the acute injury (night of the murder) and the chronic injury (1 to 3 days prior to the murder). A person's sexual routines do not change all that much from one day to the other.

BlueCrab
 
KatherineQ said:
Now let me ask you this. What are the odds that the parents would call the cops, knowing their dead daughter they killed is lying there in the house? These Ramseys aren't unsophisiticated *advertiser censored* like some people who think the body won't be discovered, if they put her body there, they KNEW it would be found once they called the cops. Despite the fact that this is an out of the way room in the house. Only a boob would think that body wouldn't be found.
What do suppose they could do instead? All four were due to leave for Minneapolis that morning in their private plane where they would meet up with the two older Ramseys and a friend.

How do you suppose they could continue with their plans? What explanation would they give to Burke for Jonbenet being missing? What would they tell the older kids?

It snowed during that night in Boulder. If they had attempted to remove the car from the garage, the car tracks would have been a dead giveaway (no pun intended). It would have also have been pretty risky if they'd attempted to remove her body on foot. What if a neighbour had seen them carrying a large bag out of the house during the night before they're daughter was found missing?

"Who" is looking too close to the elephant? :D
 
Jayelles - It seems to me, that those who have looked closely at this case agree with me - the Ramsey's have been cleared.

What do you think happened to her? Do you think Burke did it? Mr. Ramsey? Patsy and John Ramsey, together, sadistically killed their little girl that by any account, was the apple of their eye?

That it was an accidental beating death they tried to cover up by making it appear that a sexual deviant did this?

OR, that JonBenet, who I think everyone would agree was a pedophile magnet, was killed by a pedophile.

What really makes more sense? Putting aside pineapple, and whether someone had reg'lar sex with her before she was killed, and all the other minutia that really don't point at the Ramseys, but rather point to an unconventional person?
 
KatherineQ said:
Jayelles - It seems to me, that those who have looked closely at this case agree with me - the Ramsey's have been cleared.
Cleared? Perhaps you could provide a source for that. I have missed this.
 
BlueCrab said:
Seeker,

It's not known for sure whether JonBenet was raped or not. The evidence suggests she was raped.

From page 56 in PMPT pb:

"During the autopsy, Meyer had told Arndt and Trujillo that JonBenet had suffered an injury consistent with vaginal penetration -- digital or otherwise. In his opinion, she'd sustained some kind of genital trauma that could be consistent with sexual contact."

IOW, it could have been from a finger, or from the stick, or from a prepubescent penis, or any combination of these.

JonBenet's hymen was gone except for a rim of tissue between the 10 and 2 o'clock positions, and she had sustained acute and chronic injuries to the vagina. IOW, JonBenet had been sexually abused prior to the night she died.

There were acute and chronic injuries at the same 7 o'clock position of the hymenal orifice, which itself, at 1 cm, was approximately twice the size it should have been. Both injuries at the same location 7 o'clock position suggest the same person caused the acute injury (night of the murder) and the chronic injury (1 to 3 days prior to the murder). A person's sexual routines do not change all that much from one day to the other.

BlueCrab


Whoa, BC, the evidence doesn't suggest that JonBenet was raped in the ordinary sense. It suggests that she was poked in the vagina with a stick. If you want to call that rape, that's your prerogative; depends on how you define the word. Unless Burke is a beaver, his prepubescent penis wouldn't scratch the hymen.

Whoa, BC, JonBenet's hymen wasn't gone except for a rim of tissue between the 10 and 2 o'clock positions. You got that from Schiller. He got that wrong in his book. In the autopsy report it says the hymen was a rim of tissue from the 2 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position (clockwise), not from 10 to 2. What you are describing is 4/12ths (33.33 %) of a complete circle; what Meyer (he performed the autopsy, not Schiller) described was 8/12ths (66.66 %) of a complete circle; a normal hymen configuration, as I and others have already pointed out to you on numerous occasions. Schiller incorrectly described the hymen when he said, in PMPT, "What remained of the hymen was a rim of tissue between the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions." It was in this incorrect characterization and description that folks got the impression that part of the hymen was missing; it wasn't.

Whoa, BC, your conclusion about the acute and chronic injuries is incorrect. Both the injury to the hymen (the abrasion) and the injury to the vaginal wall directly behind it (the abrasion) were acute (neither was chronic). It is true that both these acute injuries suggest that the same person made them at the same time; probably with the paintbrush handle. Make of that what you will.

An added comment about something that BC didn't mention this time. Many have gotten the impression that a piece of hymen was missing and had gone missing either that night or sometime prior to that night. Many folks have gotten the impression that the hymen was torn that night. The coroner said it was abraded; he didn't say it was torn. If you want to replace the term, "abrasion", with the term, "tear", feel free to do so, even though that would be incorrect. Then you'd have that the hymen had been torn by the paintbrush handle (or whatever was used to inflict the injury--not a penis). Still not rape in the ordinary sense; more on the order of a sadistic gesture.

Thomas, himself, didn't suspect rape nor did he suspect chronic sexual abuse in the molestation sense. He suspected physical abuse; probably of the nature of corporal punishment for bed wetting.

Let's get our facts straight. Old myths die hard.
 
The Ramsey's have not been cleared other than by those internet posters who think they're innocent, they remain under an umbrella of suspicion for those who don't and with the DA office and the BPD.

Let's see...the youngest child is "kidnapped" the note says DON'T call the police or we'll behead her, we're watching your every movement. What is done? Oh yeah, they call the police don't tell them to be inconspicuous because of what the note says and then call all their friends to rush right over...
To top it off Patsy says she only read the first few lines of it then ran to check JB's room while yelling for John YET she tells the 911 dispatcher HOW THE NOTE IS SIGNED OFF!!! "It says Victory S.B.T.C"

There's a killer out there, so hold your babies close so says Patsy Ramsey on 1/1/97, yet she sent her son away that same morning? Actually it was John who sent Burke to the Whites...

And the boy...let's NOT forget about his not asking one single friggen question about what was happening, where his sister was, nothing, not one single thing? Puleaze!!! What kid isn't going to look around see all the comotion be told he's being sent to another family's home and NOT ASK where the hell his sister is or why he's the ONLY one being sent away unless HE KNOWS something? Top that off by his LYING to the cop who goes to the White's house to talk to him. A NORMAL 10 year old (he was just about 10 so I'll say 10) LIES to a cop about ANYTHING unless he's hiding something or was told by his parents to say he slept through everything when he didnt'?

And WHY would you send your other child away when the safest place for them is next to your side? Hold your babies close? HA!

OH and let's not forget John taking a WALK by HIMSELF out in the WOODS that very night of his "finding" his daughter's body!!

And you think these people are normal? In what sense are they, or have they shown anyone that they are "normal" since that very day back in 96 when the public became aware of them?

Dressing JonBenet up in garish costumes, applying too much makeup, teaching her how to move seductively, having a very grown up portfolio done complete with excessive hair and makeup to make her look like a 20 something, and dying her hair (at 6 which is unethical and illegal) are not the acts of a "normal" mother who let's her daughter compete "just a few times a year" for "fun".

I don't know who killed JonBenet, but that family is anything but normal and their actions have proven that they aren't. They are covering something up and have been for over 8 years now...
 
The Ramsey's have not been cleared other than by those internet posters who think they're innocent, they remain under an umbrella of suspicion for those who don't and with the DA office and the BPD.
Thank you. That is what I thought.

OH and let's not forget John taking a WALK by HIMSELF out in the WOODS that very night of his "finding" his daughter's body!!
The woods? Was he completely alone? I wonder if the police ever searched the route of John's walk?

In the case of the Yorkshire Ripper. He was eventually caught with a prostitute. Police asked him to come into the station with them and he asked if he could go and empty his bladder first. The police allowed him to do this. Later, one of the police remembered that he had gone for a pee and went back to the site to find the murder weapon that had been used on his victims.
 
Jayelles said:
The woods? Was he completely alone? I wonder if the police ever searched the route of John's walk?
Yes, he went for a walk alone that night according to Schiller's book PMPT, but the Ramsey's have never disputed that fact, so I tend to believe it is an accurate account.
 
If I had just had my daughter killed under my nose in my own home, and the killas were still out there (presuming I was innocent of guilty knowledge), I sure wouldn't go walking around alone at night in Boulder the next night. The note said they were pithed at John and his bussiness. These people know what happened that night, IMO.
 
RedChief said:
I think we all need to calm down. I thought this thread was for people who feel the Ramseys are innocent?
:clap:




Perhaps someone should start another thread that discusses the evidence that they feel implicates the Ramseys.
 
Thorkim said:
If I had just had my daughter killed under my nose in my own home, and the killas were still out there (presuming I was innocent of guilty knowledge), I sure wouldn't go walking around alone at night in Boulder the next night. The note said they were pithed at John and his bussiness. These people know what happened that night, IMO.
Or stalling off the cops for 4 months and then giving evasive answers...

ST: What would you say if I asked you to take a polygraph?

JR: I'd be insulted.

Yeah, that's sure an INNOCENT man talking isn't it?
 
AuntieKaren said:
Here we go again.
There is absolutely no evidence, not one shred, that points to any Ramsey having been involved.
Karen


AMEN!!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
 
I guess I was wrong, they haven't been officially declared "cleared".

How does anyone know, really, what Burke said or didn't say? Sometimes things get picked up by the media and get repeated and theyr'e not true. There's so much here that the public doesn't know.

I know a lot of people who think the Ramsey's are odd, but I know people here who get their little daughters involved in "cheer" as it's called now, at about the age of 3, they trot their daughters out in daring outfits doing oddly provocative dances with make up, hairspray, etc. The moms sit in the audience at these cash cow competitions and complain amongst themselves why THEIR daughter isn't up front, she's better than Jennifer, bla bla bla. It's a culture. I don't get it, but I do see it often enough to know it doesn't make someone a murderer because they do that sort of thing.

People, and the media can just grab on to some small thing and decide it makes a case, when it's just a small thing. Why didn't the Jessica Lunsford's dog bark? We'll never know. But fact of the matter is, some drugged out nut broke into her house while her grandparents slept and wandered around the trailer long enough to go through her room, pick her up and take her. That's the facts of the matter, regardless of whether the front door of the trailer was usually locked or not, and the dog didn't bark, and the grandfather had been arrested 50 years ago for attempted kidnapping. None of that matters.

How does John Ramsey's walk in the woods point to anything? Do murderers walk in the woods more than people shocked with grief? These are all non issues.

I believe same here. Teeny confusing details, perhaps even incorrectly reported shouldn't block out what seems clearly to have happened to this girl.
 
bensmom98 said:
FYI: The original source of this is a National Enquirer article.
The Ramseys gave the Enquirer this exclusive interview. It wasn't one of the "unnamed sources" pieces.
 
Yes, it was an interview given by the Ramsey's as part of a settlement agreement. It's still their words and their interview....
 

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