Living with a compulsive liar

[OneLostGrl]

I wish all the other "mental illness" posts from the general discussion thread were posted in the mental illness thread. I would have liked to have been able to follow along as to what kinds of issues in regard to Casey that people were discussing because as I have pointed out in the past I do see some "behaviors" of Casey's that remind me of myself prior to treatment.

This is not meant to imply that I think she has Bipolar, just some behaviors that can and do go hand in hand with it but the behaviors also go hand in hand with a host of other illnesses as well, such as Anti-social personality disorder (what used to be termed Sociopath/Psychopath).

I don't understand why it took so long for her to come into contact with LE. If this girl has a personality disorder there has got to be a history of trouble with authority (other than he parents)...

I'm just sayin'

 

[asher1979]

Oh my gosh, some of the things you say are so spot on. The socially inappropriate thing is exactly like my grandmother. She has no filter between her brain and her mouth and just says whatever she thinks. At a family get together with a dozen people around she asked my mother if she had ever considered a breast reduction. At another family get together she asked my aunts if they thought my mother's weight was healthy. We were at a family funeral and I was 8 months pregnant. (I'm only 5'3 and I only gained 20 pounds while pregnant but on my frame it looked huge). In front of family she says to me "Are you sure there is only one baby in there and not two or three? You're huge." One of my cousins chuckled so my grandmother proceeded to repeat her question 3 more times. Every time someone new would walk over she would repeat it. If looks could kill my eyes would have delivered her death blow.

 

[tiredblondy]

I would suggest that those of you dealing with adults read up on the following diagnosis in which deceit is a prominent feature
Bipolar Disorder- these folks can be almost unbearable when they are in a manic phase. They love to get under others' skin and become very good at it. Medication can be very helpful in controlling symptoms.
Borderline Personality Disorder- say this to any mental health professional and they will likely cringe. I know after spending time with Borderlines I often walk out of the room believing I'm the one who needs professional help. Very attention-seeking and will say or do about anything to get this attention. Usually have a very difficult time coping with being alone, but not necessarily.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder- name is pretty self-explanatory. Very self-centered and NEVER wrong.
Antisocial Personality Disorder- most prominent feature is a lack of empathy or ability to feel guilt. Extremely self-serving, values others only to the extent in which they are "useful".
If any of these seem to fit there are books out that will help you understand how to cope/live with these folks. Of course there are other diagnosis as well that may fit but this a place to start.

My daughter's diagnosis was Borderline, Narcissistic,Antisocial personality disorder with attachment disorder. I've read everything and counseling has helped my guilt and my reactions to her but if you've never lived with these people you cannot imagine what it's like. These are the kids who tell their peers parents you beat them,you kicked them out of the house, called social services and complained they were abused...you name it. I've been there. There was one house she ran away too where the mom allowed her to stay but called me to let me know she was safe. The arrangement worked well. My daughter never knew. I think she ran away 3 or 4 times during high school. Just didn't come home, call etc. I was scared to death the first time looked everywhere cried etc. After the second time it was old hat. You can just take so much.

 

[tiredblondy]

Remember the counselor seemed to think it significant with my daughter that she never cried and didn't dream.

 

[CASuzk]

Yeah, my cousin. There is some history that may explain it:The true part- adopted in 1963, birth mother was a young professional in Washington D.C. who had an affair with an older married politician. (don't think it could be a Kennedy, cousin is tall and very blond)
Aunt had two children and did not want another but she'd married a man who wanted a child.
Aunt was the troubled child in her own family, was verbally abusive to the baby to the point that screaming "Shut up" at the crying baby would cause her to stop at once.

Cousin grew into a charming but pathological thieving liar.
She didn't graduate from high school but somehow, magically, she has been approached to be a model or movie star and she became an accountant for a firm in Hollywood where she regularly handles the funds of several major movie stars. I really don't know what she does for a living, I'm 100% sure that she isn't doing what she says she does but the other possiblites are too disturbing to think about and what good would it do to call her a liar?
However, she had a child who is now 24, and bless her heart, cousin did raise this child and has taken pretty good care of her.

 

[softsoul]

[/size]

My daughter's diagnosis was Borderline, Narcissistic,Antisocial personality disorder with attachment disorder. I've read everything and counseling has helped my guilt and my reactions to her but if you've never lived with these people you cannot imagine what it's like. These are the kids who tell their peers parents you beat them,you kicked them out of the house, called social services and complained they were abused...you name it. I've been there. There was one house she ran away too where the mom allowed her to stay but called me to let me know she was safe. The arrangement worked well. My daughter never knew. I think she ran away 3 or 4 times during high school. Just didn't come home, call etc. I was scared to death the first time looked everywhere cried etc. After the second time it was old hat. You can just take so much.

Wow, what a nightmare of a diagnosis!!:shocked2:

 

[tiredblondy]

Wow, what a nightmare of a diagnosis!!:shocked2:

Thanks...that's what I thought too. I don't know if all those were necessary or just to cover everything for insurance purposes. The attachment disorder was bad enough. I really feel the borderline and antisocial personality disorders were appropriate. I always thought of the attachment disorder as "reactive attachment disorder". The counselor said no it was attachment disorder. Those books, articles and videos helped me more than any others.

 

[txsvicki]

I've had to deal with a boy from age 5 to now age 12. He's stolen jewelry from all the female relatives, stolen money that we've had hidden away, and has told some wild delusional type tales several times in his life. When anyone is questioning him he tells what they want to hear. He will admit to some of his misdeeds if totally cornered and there's no one else to blame. He had also tried to recruit smaller children to steal money for him while he was the lookout and the other kids told that he concocted a "plan" to totally disrupt my home and hid fruit behind things knowing that I'm very allergic to mold. This was all because he didn't get his way and got grounded for one day due to sneaking fireworks in the home and leaving them where a smaller child could get them. Then he lied about where he got them, and tried to blame his older brother who was not even around. He now lives with a relative who has no small children and is still at it when he takes a notion. His lies are about what a child would lie about, such as homework, wanting to get out of cleaning, etc. The psychologist diagnosed him with ADD and OCD. Says it's a compulsion, but is considering that he may be a psychopath, and used the word psychopath. He had previously stopped treating him because he's so polite, pleasant, and good natured with no complaints. I've seen psychiatrists and tried to tell doctors of my fears that something is bad wrong, but can't seem to get very much help. No one wants to diagnose a child. He takes ADD medication and an antipsychotic, but still seems to have at least one big episode a year of some big questionable tale and stealing. I don't know how to deal with liars because I've told very few in my whole life, but I'm convinced there's some mental illness involved along with some personality disorder in the more cunning habitual liars.

 

[gimmeaclue]

I don't hold out much hope with her seeing a doctor and it helping. We have seen so many over the years for one thing or another. I believe a lot of her problem is that she is just spoiled and self centered. She means to have her way no matter what.
She's an only child and I think her dad and I have never made her suffer any consequences (sp). The thing is she can make her dad believe anything she says. But I'm on to her!
It is just unbelievable some of the tales she has.
You know I had considered talking about this in the jury room but I just couldn't get up my nerve.
It feels so good to get this off my chest! I could go on for hours! lol

 

[OneLostGrl]

I've had to deal with a boy from age 5 to now age 12. He's stolen jewelry from all the female relatives, stolen money that we've had hidden away, and has told some wild delusional type tales several times in his life. When anyone is questioning him he tells what they want to hear. He will admit to some of his misdeeds if totally cornered and there's no one else to blame. He had also tried to recruit smaller children to steal money for him while he was the lookout and the other kids told that he concocted a "plan" to totally disrupt my home and hid fruit behind things knowing that I'm very allergic to mold. This was all because he didn't get his way and got grounded for one day due to sneaking fireworks in the home and leaving them where a smaller child could get them. Then he lied about where he got them, and tried to blame his older brother who was not even around. He now lives with a relative who has no small children and is still at it when he takes a notion. His lies are about what a child would lie about, such as homework, wanting to get out of cleaning, etc. The psychologist diagnosed him with ADD and OCD. Says it's a compulsion, but is considering that he may be a psychopath, and used the word psychopath. He had previously stopped treating him because he's so polite, pleasant, and good natured with no complaints. I've seen psychiatrists and tried to tell doctors of my fears that something is bad wrong, but can't seem to get very much help. No one wants to diagnose a child. He takes ADD medication and an antipsychotic, but still seems to have at least one big episode a year of some big questionable tale and stealing. I don't know how to deal with liars because I've told very few in my whole life, but I'm convinced there's some mental illness involved along with some personality disorder in the more cunning habitual liars.

wow! How'd you do it for so long? it sounds more like ODD, not OCD to me!

 

[fixingtoburst]

My mother is, and always has been a pathological liar. She would tell the most ridiculous stories that would make her look good, or she thought would be received as humorous. Example:

"I went to the Post Office today and saw Shirley there. I told her that if she didn't stop spanking her 3 year old son with his pants pulled down in the front yard I was going to call the police and have her arrested for child abuse."

She would think that this makes her look good. If I happened to be with her, and she told an outlandish story, I would quickly add that the whole thing was untrue and that it never happened. Needless to say, she hated me. I haven't seen or spoken to her in over 10 years, but I don't doubt that she's still at it.

Her favorite thing was to tell stories about us kids and other kin. She's say "your sister said that you were driving drunk yesterday." I'd say, that's not true, I didn't even see my sister yesterday." "Well, she saw you, she told me so." So I call my sister, big fight, huge blow-up until we figure out that dear old Mom is the culprit not either one of us.

It took us girls well into our 30's to finally write her out of our lives completely. The final straw for me was when she started her tricks on my 5 year old son. I cut her out of my life completely.

It's not something that I will ever tolerate again, from anybody. My advice is to call them out when you catch them in a lie. Eventually, she tried very hard not to lie when I was present because she knew she couldn't get away with it. It was almost impossible for her to do though. She'd sooner lie than tell the truth about almost anything.

She told everybody that my elderly grandmother (Daddy's mom) was a lesbian. She knew this because she saw them necking on Gramma's couch one time. Big lie, it broke my Gramma's heart too. I could go on and on. If you know somebody like this steer clear of them, they are nothing but trouble. If you are forced to be in their company, don't let them lie and get away with it. Good Luck!

We must have the same mother. That's really scary.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't hold out much hope with her seeing a doctor and it helping. We have seen so many over the years for one thing or another. I believe a lot of her problem is that she is just spoiled and self centered. She means to have her way no matter what.
She's an only child and I think her dad and I have never made her suffer any consequences (sp). The thing is she can make her dad believe anything she says. But I'm on to her!
It is just unbelievable some of the tales she has.
You know I had considered talking about this in the jury room but I just couldn't get up my nerve.
It feels so good to get this off my chest! I could go on for hours! lol

Don't stop now, girl! We have threads about mental illness about borderline personality etc in the jury room. Come check us out sometime!

here's one about Borderline http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67257 (it may just lead you to getting answers on how to help your daughter, who know?! It can't hurt!)

 

[Salem]

I am really enjoying this thread. It gives me so much in-sight into what Casey might be doing (I can't say thinking or feeling) and how her family might have responded over the years.

I also want to say I am sorry for everyone's pain and trials, but it does sound as if you have all found or are working on finding a way to deal with your particular circumstances.

Prayers to all of you and thank you all so much for sharing!

Salem

 

[ShouldBWorking]

We must have the same mother. That's really scary.

we might be triplets

 

[Amity]

I just have to say this........

I have tears on my cheeks and my nose is running. Reading all these responses....my heart goes out to each of you and your families.

Way back, can't even remember which # Caylee General Discussion it was, I posted a little bit about my daughter.
With one exception in a Private Message (which I will always cherish) my post wasn't responded to.
That's OK. The forums for Caylee move so fast it was understandable but I also felt that maybe I was the only parent/Mom on the Caylee forum that could see similarities with Casey and my own adult child.
That other Moms on this forum didn't have the unfortunate experience of having a Drama Daughter was OK by me.
I was glad of that as I wouldn't wish my life with my Drama Daughter on my worst enemy.

Then I see this topic, start reading and omg, my heart aches for each of you having to deal with these broken loved ones.

((((( To all of you who have shared your story, your heartache)))))

 

[Love_Mama]

I wish all the other "mental illness" posts from the general discussion thread were posted in the mental illness thread. I would have liked to have been able to follow along as to what kinds of issues in regard to Casey that people were discussing because as I have pointed out in the past I do see some "behaviors" of Casey's that remind me of myself prior to treatment.

This is not meant to imply that I think she has Bipolar, just some behaviors that can and do go hand in hand with it but the behaviors also go hand in hand with a host of other illnesses as well, such as Anti-social personality disorder (what used to be termed Sociopath/Psychopath).

I don't understand why it took so long for her to come into contact with LE. If this girl has a personality disorder there has got to be a history of trouble with authority (other than he parents)...

I'm just sayin'

Posters here. OneLostGrl is a well loved long time highly respected poster here at WS.
Look at her post number.

If you see a post by her, read it. She know's more about problems with children lying than most of us would ever know. She's the best and she's been through a lot, believe me.


xxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[lisalei321]

Oh okay, I am getting a little concerned with my son. I know this is off subject but he is in Kindergarten and is constantly in trouble. No matter how much I drill it into his head he just doesn't listen to his teacher. Sometimes at night when we are sitting around talking, he starts telling me how such and such punched him in the face at school. When I start to question him about it, he goes along with it. Finally I have to tell him that he better be telling me the truth or I will question his teacher. Then he says, "I'm just kidding MOM!" Is this normal for a 5 year old? I am really concerned. I don't know what to do anymore.

I have an 8 year old that had the same problem in school, luckily for us we had an EXTREMELY awesome teacher, she called it "what I wanted to have happened syndrome", so now when she starts telling us something that sounds like a fantasy we ask her if it's a story or is it true? We bought her some journals and we have her write down the story (to share at dinner) and she pretty much always speak what actually happened (this started when she was 6 btw). She has gotten really good at telling us "this is what happened" and "this is what I wrote down", the funny part? Her stories are pretty dang good!

 

[Salem]

(((((Amity))))) -Amity hugs to you also! I have only spot read the 60+ threads in the general discussion. With 200 posters at a time I have not had time to read every post. I am so sorry I missed yours and I am glad you found this thread!

I think having this thread can be very instrumental in helping to find Caylee because it gives us a "real" look into Casey's head and provides some understanding of the family's behavior.

If our threads could lose a little frustration and start really looking at how the family dynamics are set up and Casey's possible response to those dynamics, we might get somewhere...

Prayers to all,

Salem

 

[Salem]

I have an 8 year old that had the same problem in school, luckily for us we had an EXTREMELY awesome teacher, she called it "what I wanted to have happened syndrome", so now when she starts telling us something that sounds like a fantasy we ask her if it's a story or is it true? We bought her some journals and we have her write down the story (to share at dinner) and she pretty much always speak what actually happened (this started when she was 6 btw). She has gotten really good at telling us "this is what happened" and "this is what I wrote down", the funny part? Her stories are pretty dang good!

How creative! What a wonderful idea! And what a nice way to teach your daughter the difference between the "fantasy" and the reality.

Salem

 

[lisalei321]

How creative! What a wonderful idea! And what a nice way to teach your daughter the difference between the "fantasy" and the reality.

Salem

I firmly believe it has saved me alot in future "therapy" billings (whether they be mine or hers I'm not sure):woohoo: