Living with a compulsive liar

[softsoul]

I've had to deal with a boy from age 5 to now age 12. He's stolen jewelry from all the female relatives, stolen money that we've had hidden away, and has told some wild delusional type tales several times in his life. When anyone is questioning him he tells what they want to hear. He will admit to some of his misdeeds if totally cornered and there's no one else to blame. He had also tried to recruit smaller children to steal money for him while he was the lookout and the other kids told that he concocted a "plan" to totally disrupt my home and hid fruit behind things knowing that I'm very allergic to mold. This was all because he didn't get his way and got grounded for one day due to sneaking fireworks in the home and leaving them where a smaller child could get them. Then he lied about where he got them, and tried to blame his older brother who was not even around. He now lives with a relative who has no small children and is still at it when he takes a notion. His lies are about what a child would lie about, such as homework, wanting to get out of cleaning, etc. The psychologist diagnosed him with ADD and OCD. Says it's a compulsion, but is considering that he may be a psychopath, and used the word psychopath. He had previously stopped treating him because he's so polite, pleasant, and good natured with no complaints. I've seen psychiatrists and tried to tell doctors of my fears that something is bad wrong, but can't seem to get very much help. No one wants to diagnose a child. He takes ADD medication and an antipsychotic, but still seems to have at least one big episode a year of some big questionable tale and stealing. I don't know how to deal with liars because I've told very few in my whole life, but I'm convinced there's some mental illness involved along with some personality disorder in the more cunning habitual liars.

Can I ask what antipsychotic drug he is taking? I agree with OneLost about it sounding more like ODD than OCD...I've never heard of a OCD diagnosis for lying but who knows. However, I have some concerns about a psychiatrist referring to a child as a psychopath. You really cannot diagnosis a child or adolescent with a personality disorder, although it is entirely possible for a child to experience psychosis...although extremely rare...most psychotic symptoms begin to appear in the early twenties, sometimes in the late teens.

I hope all of you and your loved ones get whatever help you need. It is hard enough being a parent but to have your child have such problems must be so challenging and heartbreaking.

 

[anneinchicago]

I firmly believe the problem is hereditary and therefore a true mental illness.

My mother (who had other mental health issues) was a pathological liar. After she died, I learned that not only was her age wrong, but her name was made up, her family history, everything. Not a word she had said was true. To this day, I still have no real idea of what her name really is, whether she (and I) still have family somewhere, where she was born, etc.

My daughter (and I think the first rush of teen-aged hormones is a contributing factor) began when she hit puberty. I have cut off all contact with her. She lies to everyone, steals, manipulates, wouldn't know the truth of something if it whacked her on the head. My daugter would call, hysteical, in the middle of the night, convince me she needed me to drop everything and come to wherever she was (the last time was at 1:00 AM), her husband was going to kill her, etc. etc. I would get there and she would act as if nothing was wrong and would I like to go with her to a flea market tomorrow.
I was invited to her wedding, have never met her husband (Lord only knows what she has said about me) or knows where she lives. She tells people I beat er. Or locked her up at home. Or... Or... Or... She sees no reason to be medicated.

Both my mother and daughter seem (ed) to firmly believe whatever they say. Confront them and it can escalate into violence or, at the very least, a screaming fit.

 

[kpass]

I have a son who is bi-polar (diagnosed at age 16)...the lying started at a very early age. He's 30 now & STILL lies! Refuses to take his meds because he thinks everyone else has the problem...He's right & the world is all wrong! Needless to say, his father was the same way, I divorced him many, many years ago when my son was 2 years. Usually, I believe it's hereditary.

 

[Fandy]

[/SIZE]

My daughter's diagnosis was Borderline, Narcissistic,Antisocial personality disorder with attachment disorder. I've read everything and counseling has helped my guilt and my reactions to her but if you've never lived with these people you cannot imagine what it's like. These are the kids who tell their peers parents you beat them,you kicked them out of the house, called social services and complained they were abused...you name it. I've been there. There was one house she ran away too where the mom allowed her to stay but called me to let me know she was safe. The arrangement worked well. My daughter never knew. I think she ran away 3 or 4 times during high school. Just didn't come home, call etc. I was scared to death the first time looked everywhere cried etc. After the second time it was old hat. You can just take so much.

I have had very much the same experiences with my daughter...it began freshman year in high school...she went from being and Honors student to almost failing the year....and although we did everything we could to get her professional help, she would lie to the psych, social workers andtry to con them. She is a master of manipulation and a real drama queen.

I'm sorry to say that 12 years later she hasn't changed, she's now an adult and refuses to get help and recognise her problem...but my attitude has changed to save my sanity. i told her she was "off my payroll" and if she didn't show respect and civility she was not welcome in my home. Her father (myX) has done the same.

I saw the first phone call released from casey's records (the one where she talks to her mother asking for the phone number--huge waste statement, constant use of the f word)....it could have been my daughter speaking...i was away on vacation at the time and it just jolted me back.

I forget who said it, but you come away from a conversation with this type of person thinking you are the one that is wrong or *insane*...They are master manipulators. I can identify with Cindy to a point.

sorry i'm long-winded and this is probably one of the reasons i follow this case.:bang:

 

[tiredblondy]

Thanks to the kind responses and understanding. I really appreciate your support and wonderful comments. It really helps to know there are others who understand and have been there. Thank you so much. Is my daughter the only one who has had trouble with not crying or not dreaming?

 

[Vegas Bride]

The problem I have with replying to this thread is, I don't know which one of the many compulsive liars I've known should I talk about? Casey imo is certainly not alone in the compulsive liar cattegory!
Tonight I will talk about 1 of my sisters, she reminds me so much of Casey, partly because she had a baby at a young age, even younger than Casey. She manipulated and used everyone around her as much as she could. After she had the baby she was very good at using the baby as a tool to get things and threaten to take the baby away if she didn't get what she wanted, many time's she would tell us we'd never see her daughter again! I was younger and still a child myself and can look back at it all now and I just shake my head. I'm sure I don't know everything she pulled, but I was aware of enough to get a pretty good feel for her.
With my sister, she was attractive and had an outgoing personality (when she wanted to), she had a much higher oppinion about her looks than what reality was. Yes she was pretty but, there are plenty out there who were prettier. In her mind, if she had not gotten pregnent and gotten married, she would have become Miss America, she really believed this! It did not matter that she had never been in 1 single beauty pagent, much less won one and for the life of me I can't think of what her talent could have been, she was not a singer or dancer or did anything with music other than some ear hurting violin lesson for a little while. I can remember her standing in front of a mirror telling herself how beautiful she was. Through the years the 1 thing she has always done has been to take care of her appearance, she has never been overweight and has always been well groomed and well dressed, I think it's because she understand she's able to get away with things more because of how she looks. I think Casey may also. My mother in many ways fed into this, she enjoyed listening to my sister spin her tales and the drama she brought into the home. I remember how 1 day when she put it into her head to get her in-laws to buy her baby clothes, she purposely tore up an outfit so she could dress her daughter in rags so she could take her to them and they would see how she was dressed. This is how she used people, I also remember her taking some of her baby's Christmas gifts and exchanging them for something for herself, and nothing that was really needed! She was always wanting something from someone, always had a gimmic. For people who saw her true colors, well they were just jealous because she was so beautiful and when they die they will burn in hell for the way they treated her! The women at work were jealous of her because she dressed so much better than them, etc. I have a very limited relationship with her now, I am close to her daughter and have tried through the years to offer her some stability.
I could go on about this so much more but I better quit.
imo my sister and Casey both figured out at a very young age that if you look pretty, you can get away with stuff!

VB

 

[monkey]

Ok I am sleepy tonight but I really want help with what has happened in my life with a Liar! Well, a couple of them but one that lives in my house ! I will have to come back to this thread! loll! ( Just found it ) !

 

[txsvicki]

Can I ask what antipsychotic drug he is taking? I agree with OneLost about it sounding more like ODD than OCD...I've never heard of a OCD diagnosis for lying but who knows. However, I have some concerns about a psychiatrist referring to a child as a psychopath. You really cannot diagnosis a child or adolescent with a personality disorder, although it is entirely possible for a child to experience psychosis...although extremely rare...most psychotic symptoms begin to appear in the early twenties, sometimes in the late teens.

I hope all of you and your loved ones get whatever help you need. It is hard enough being a parent but to have your child have such problems must be so challenging and heartbreaking.

Sorry I've taken awhile to get back to this thread. He's taking Abilify. I think the Psychologist was mainly talking to me about concerns for future possibilities because I said (in a private talk) that I was afraid he'd grow up and be a psychopath. He did say that it's really a concern because medication and treatment has not resulted in enough improvement. I've been told as well that Abilify should control bipolar mania even though doctors seem very hesitant to even diagnose that.

 

[softsoul]

Sorry I've taken awhile to get back to this thread. He's taking Abilify. I think the Psychologist was mainly talking to me about concerns for future possibilities because I said (in a private talk) that I was afraid he'd grow up and be a psychopath. He did say that it's really a concern because medication and treatment has not resulted in enough improvement. I've been told as well that Abilify should control bipolar mania even though doctors seem very hesitant to even diagnose that.

That makes more sense, thanks for sharing. I once knew an eight year old boy who had started burglarizing houses. He was violent with his mother and anyone who "got in his way". Nothing the family tried seemed to help. I had similar thoughts about him at that time and often wonder what became of him. He would be in his early 20's now.

On the brighter side I've seen many kids with severe behavioral problems, including compulsive lying, turn around and become healthy, happy adults. The older they get the more unlikely it becomes but it certainly can and does happen.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have a son who is bi-polar (diagnosed at age 16)...the lying started at a very early age. He's 30 now & STILL lies! Refuses to take his meds because he thinks everyone else has the problem...He's right & the world is all wrong! Needless to say, his father was the same way, I divorced him many, many years ago when my son was 2 years. Usually, I believe it's hereditary.

I'm sorry your son has not gotten help and I understand the pain that must cause you and the rest of your family, including your son! My heart goes out to you- I wish I could wrap my arms around you through our computer screens! :blowkiss:

I have Bipolar disorder as well and was misdiagnosed and over or under medicated at any given time throughout my entire life. I have caused my loved ones a lot of pain.. left a path of destruction in my wake until about 6 years ago. Something just clicked and I finally decided to get help no matter what.

I am medicated and I thank G0d for it but IMO more important, I have made amazing lifestyle changes. I stopped self-medicating (I am a prescription drug addict), I have learned to love myself which in turn has taught me how to love others. I keep my impulsivity in check, refuse myself a debit or credit card and keep my life drama free.

I have not been arrested in 6 years.. in the last 2 years I finished up the last of my punishments. I am off of probation for the first time ever in my adult life and I earned back my drivers license (had been suspended for 5 years!), I have not gotten a speeding ticket (your son has Bipolar, you understand about speeding tickets, I'm sure, no?!).

I screwed up a lot of things, I lied, I stole, I cheated, I worked as a "call girl", I broke laws, I am a convicted felon, a drug addict, I was a piece of s#it. But I'm not anymore.

This was 6 years ago... when I was 30.

Don't give up on your son...
:blowkiss:

 

[kpass]

I'm sorry your son has not gotten help and I understand the pain that must cause you and the rest of your family, including your son! My heart goes out to you- I wish I could wrap my arms around you through our computer screens! :blowkiss:

I have Bipolar disorder as well and was misdiagnosed and over or under medicated at any given time throughout my entire life. I have caused my loved ones a lot of pain.. left a path of destruction in my wake until about 6 years ago. Something just clicked and I finally decided to get help no matter what.

I am medicated and I thank G0d for it but IMO more important, I have made amazing lifestyle changes. I stopped self-medicating (I am a prescription drug addict), I have learned to love myself which in turn has taught me how to love others. I keep my impulsivity in check, refuse myself a debit or credit card and keep my life drama free.

I have not been arrested in 6 years.. in the last 2 years I finished up the last of my punishments. I am off of probation for the first time ever in my adult life and I earned back my drivers license (had been suspended for 5 years!), I have not gotten a speeding ticket (your son has Bipolar, you understand about speeding tickets, I'm sure, no?!).

I screwed up a lot of things, I lied, I stole, I cheated, I worked as a "call girl", I broke laws, I am a convicted felon, a drug addict, I was a piece of s#it. But I'm not anymore.

This was 6 years ago... when I was 30.

Don't give up on your son...
:blowkiss:

Thank you...God bless you! I'm so happy to hear that there is "hope" out there. I hope & pray every day that he'll see the light & come around. It's been about 7 mos. since we've talked. He has a 2 year old daughter that he doesn't see. I have her over 2 - 3 days a week & she's the spitting image of him. It breaks my heart that she doesn't know her father. It's like he doesn't even care. He saw her for 5 minutes when she was a few days old, held her, she cried & he handed her back to her mother & left. He's the one missing out, not her...she has many people that love her. I worry that she'll never know him. He's not a bad person, he has a good heart deep down...but refuses to take his meds & does CRAZY things...Yes, he's had many speeding tickets AND many other "criminal offenses." Has done jail time, etc. You name it, he's done it! I have always given him the benefit of the doubt, tried tough love, etc. I'm at the end of my rope. So is everyone else. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to help him & they always end up being the "bad guy" with him.

Take care & keep it up! :clap:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Posters here. OneLostGrl is a well loved long time highly respected poster here at WS.
Look at her post number.

If you see a post by her, read it. She know's more about problems with children lying than most of us would ever know. She's the best and she's been through a lot, believe me.


xxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
:blowkiss::blowkiss:

LOL- I was talking about you to my son the day that you wrote this!

It's the same day that I got in trouble here for getting mouthy with a new poster (discussing mental illness in regard to the mom in this case) and I said to my son "I know Love_mama will stick up for me- she knows about Bipolar too!!"

Thanks for sticking up for me, mama- you are the best! As always it is great to see you! :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Thank you...God bless you! I'm so happy to hear that there is "hope" out there. I hope & pray every day that he'll see the light & come around. It's been about 7 mos. since we've talked. He has a 2 year old daughter that he doesn't see. I have her over 2 - 3 days a week & she's the spitting image of him. It breaks my heart that she doesn't know her father. It's like he doesn't even care. He saw her for 5 minutes when she was a few days old, held her, she cried & he handed her back to her mother & left. He's the one missing out, not her...she has many people that love her. I worry that she'll never know him. He's not a bad person, he has a good heart deep down...but refuses to take his meds & does CRAZY things...Yes, he's had many speeding tickets AND many other "criminal offenses." Has done jail time, etc. You name it, he's done it! I have always given him the benefit of the doubt, tried tough love, etc. I'm at the end of my rope. So is everyone else. Everyone has bent over backwards trying to help him & they always end up being the "bad guy" with him.

Take care & keep it up! :clap:

A lot of the Borderline personality behaviors that people are describing on the other thread are very similar to Bipolar behaviors I'm sure you have noticed. Also a lot of addict behaviors are much alike as well. I point this out because (IMO) as with addiction, a person with Bipolar or BPD will not get help.. will not get well until they are ready, until they have hit rock bottom.


It sounds as if your son has built a wall and none of you are allowed on his side of it anymore. We push away the people that might be of the greatest help to us, the people who have seen us well, who call us on our bull****. Once confronted we become angry.. it is then that everything becomes their fault. Your concern looks to us like interference or rejection. Your worry for us makes us feel you are overprotective or treating us like a child.

Sadly it will only worsen until he gets help. Hopefully that will be before his daughter is grown!

There are a lot of reasons people with Bipolar go off their meds. I will list a few just to give you some idea. Please don't think that I condone any of these because I don't. It took me a long time but I have learned that I will be on medication for the rest of my life or I will die from my disease.


Giving up our crazy isn't easy- it's all we have ever known. I realize that sounds crazy but good or bad, people become used to what they know and all we know is crazy. Wellness is scary because it is unknown.

Some of us begin to feel so good, so "normal" that we wonder if what we have really is Bipolar at all. We wonder if it is the therapy, the skills and lifestyle changes, not the medicine, that has made us well. We have become so strong we actually believe we can handle it without medication. We fool ourself into thinking we are like everyone else.

Besides the fact that they can take quite some time to kick in and being pretty expensive (my medications cost $1,550 a month!), many of the medications prescribed for Bipolar are mind dulling, cause weight gain, drowsiness (in many cases actual over-sedation), have the potential for abuse & require weekly or monthly blood work. Some can cause diabetes, liver disease, thyroid issues and many interfere with other, non-psych, medications (even over the counter ones).

Sometimes our medications just stop working through no fault of our own. We can feel it happening, we loose faith in our doctor, in the meds, in ourselves.. so we say screw it, if my meds aren't gonna work I might as well go off of them and at least enjoy a high before I crash.

Another reason is that we don't feel we are worthy of peace of mind, we hate ourselves and our illness has convinced us that we don't want to feel good.





If you ever need to talk or whatever PM me :blowkiss:

 

[csds703]

I lived was a compulsive liar for 13 years. It was subtle at first. It would appear as being just immature or irresponsible. It showed itself more and more through the years.

As a rational sane person it is mind boggling to even consider why they lie about the things they do. Most of the lies are so outrageous but sprinkled with some truth that it is confusing. As the person living with them, you are always thinking why would they lie about that? I always felt like something wasn't quite right.

Like Casey, my liar even continued to lie when confronted by LE. His lies brought him more trouble at times than the truth would have. There was always some weird fantasy image that he was trying to uphold about himself.

As for me, I would wake up in the middle of the night with panic trying to figure out what was really going on around me.

I feel for anyone who deals with this.