Lyons' talk of 'Mitigation'

[ThinkTank]

The emphasis on "mitigation" really caught my attention too! That is usually considered in the penalty phase of a trial, not in the guilt/innocence phase.

This is obviously Lyon's strategy - getting the family involved. This is straight from Lyon's instruction manual “Defending the Life-or-Death Case”. excerpt: 'Family members’ involvement can be key for the following reasons'. http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/ProgMaterials/Conf2006/DDEFE.pdf

I am just not quite connecting the dots on why Lyon is pressing for unmonitored, unrecorded family jail visits? Lyon can get whatever family history from KC (KC's distorted self-serving version of course), separate from getting the family history from Cindy (her distorted June Cleaver version of Anthony family life) and from George (telling whatever Cindy tells him to say). Why does there have to be "forced" (IMO KC wants nothing to do with her family) jail visits? Lyon can accomplish her goal without forcing KC to sit through visits with her parents and brother, against her will.

My impression is that Lyon is trying to steer the ship in the ways that she believes will work to get KC out of the death penalty, but she will most likely meet with MUCH resistance from this dysfunctional family.

 

[lawlady84]

Hmm... not sure the ethical ramifications, but why doesn't JB/AL hire GA/CA/LA as part of the defense, and then they'll be covered by privilege during meetings? GA as security, CA as secretary?

...is that legal? or a fraud on the court?

 

[ThinkTank]

Also, about the taping, why not ask the judge to seal the tapes? I wouldn't think a judge would have a hard time saying a capital defendant's constitutional right to a fair trial trumps disclosure under the sunshine law to the media. Judges can always act equitably in the interest of justice. WESH isn't exactly an imperative party to the litigation

I understand what you are saying, but I do not get the "special treatment" aspect.
Why should KC get any preferential treatment? She should get the same treatment and follow the same jail procedure that every other inmate is subject to.
Why should the media be barred from getting these jail videos either through Sunshine Laws or Freedom of Info Acts?
There is nothing sensitive to the case on these videos that would prevent KC from getting a fair trial. KC just will not discuss the case, that's all.
Anything KC wants to say about the specifics of the case, she can WRITE in letters to her family.
I believe that the Defense would need to show a LEGAL cause for sealing the tapes, and I just do not see one??? But, I am not a lawyer.

 

[SleuthyMama]

I find it so ironic that this whole thing might boil down to the A's having to air their dirty laundry, or create laundry dirty enough, to keep Casey from the DP when all along the one thing they have been trying so hard to do is coverup and deny the existence of the warts and ugliness that lie just beneath the family surface.

Kinda poetic justice in its own little way, KWIM?

 

[ThinkTank]

It's not going to work as an insanity defense, but a personality disorder combined with a toxic family environment could mitigate a DP sentence perhaps. And that's all AL wants to do ultimately.

I also think her family realizes (as does AL) that a SODDI defense is useless and will backfire. Claiming accidental death (unless there is actual evidence that proves premeditation) is the only real out she has. The "mitigating" circumstances of her "not coming forward" would simply be the insane relationship she had with her parents, particularly her mother, who is one degree away from KC, imo.

I think this is all about damage control - starting on the 31 days and culminating with the minute KC hired JB, which made this whole thing spiral into inanity.

There is ample "evidence" of the "strained" relationship between KC and Cindy.
KC told LE that she was totally afraid of her mother! Knew her mother would never forgive her.
KC's friends have told LE how bitter KC was about Cindy taking over the mother role with Caylee.
KC has said she was alienated from her father and had only just gotten close to him again when "this" happened. There are witnesses to George SCREAMING at KC and cursing at her.
KC has told friends that her brother made inappropriate sexual advances towards her.
KC has told friends that George had an affair and had been kicked out of the home, and Cindy's mother also sent emails to her own sister about all of this family discord.

 

[grasslands]

This isnt the first time we have heard that the defense wants KC (to have special treatment) in where her visits arent going to be taped. It was quashed b4, and I suspect it will be again.
The unfortunate part is that the ppl around KC, continue to molly coddle, and feed into her entitlement issues. Its sad that they dont recognize, she is where she is today, on account of the special treatment that was furnsihed to her, for her whole life. i cant see this motion ever being granted.

 

[Brini]

It's not going to work as an insanity defense, but a personality disorder combined with a toxic family environment could mitigate a DP sentence perhaps. And that's all AL wants to do ultimately.

I also think her family realizes (as does AL) that a SODDI defense is useless and will backfire. Claiming accidental death (unless there is actual evidence that proves premeditation) is the only real out she has. The "mitigating" circumstances of her "not coming forward" would simply be the insane relationship she had with her parents, particularly her mother, who is one degree away from KC, imo.

I think this is all about damage control - starting on the 31 days and culminating with the minute KC hired JB, which made this whole thing spiral into inanity.

Maybe.. MOST violent offenders have personality disorders and toxic families.

My guess is that KC's youth, gender, appearance, and middle class background will be instrumental in saving her from the DP-- not any psych crap that the defense can cook up.

 

[ziggy]

Maybe.. MOST violent offenders have personality disorders and toxis families.

My guess is that KC's youth, gender, appearance, and middle class background will be instrumental in saving her from the DP-- not any psych crap that the defense can cook up.

Good point - and I'd like to add that in my criminal law class it was pointed out by professor and forensic psychologist that all of us have some portion of a "personality disorder" and most of us also have some dysfunctional families. In many cases it's not enough to amount to mitigating circumstances. The A's would have to be airing some uhhuugggly stuff wouldn't they?

The jury might just feel too creepy about sending that cute white girl to "the chair" so to speak. You may be right about that.

 

[RR0004]

One of Lyon's main goals in a DP case is to hope for the best and expect the worst. In the long haul, finding mitigating circumstances is her ultimate job in the worst case scenario.

Casey made it clear in an early family visitation that she wouldn't "say anything" to the psychologist. What that "anything" is has been widely discussed on the board.

That being said, I can't imagine any Kumbaya moments in any family visit, regardless of whether or not the video is released or destroyed.

I'm not buying it at all. All of this can be done through attorneys. As they will no doubt be stretching the truth anyway (I'm being generous), what difference does it make if they have this sit down to "share"? Do any of these people seem like they're terribly deep?

 

[ThinkTank]

http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/ProgMaterials/Conf2006/DDEFE.pdf

“Defending the Life-or-Death Case” by Andrea Lyon

pg 45

“Mitigation – reasons to punish with imprisonment rather than death – is any evidence that might tend to explain the client’s actions, family history, mental health issues, physical health matters, or the impact the client’s execution would have on his or her loved ones. The rules of evidence are relaxed at a penalty phase ......
......locating and presenting mitigating evidence – much of which is a matter of shame to the client and his family.”

 

[CapsDeej]

Seems to me a mitigation investigation is standard in DP case and typically commences as soon as possible upon learning that the prosecution intends to seek the death penalty. Perhaps the defense strategy is shifting or perhaps they are just doing their homework for the penalty phase (if/when).

The part that has me intrigued is that they need KC and her family together - that makes me think that perhaps something more is going on.

http://www.capital-mitigation-specialist.com/mitigation-investigations.htm

 

[CarolinaMoon]

http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/ProgMaterials/Conf2006/DDEFE.pdf

“Defending the Life-or-Death Case” by Andrea Lyon

pg 45

“Mitigation – reasons to punish with imprisonment rather than death – is any evidence that might tend to explain the client’s actions, family history, mental health issues, physical health matters, or the impact the client’s execution would have on his or her loved ones. The rules of evidence are relaxed at a penalty phase ......
......locating and presenting mitigating evidence – much of which is a matter of shame to the client and his family.”

Thank you for bringing that quote here, it bears repeating.

In her very first court appearance, Lyons announced in front of the courthouse that she did not oppose Casey visiting with her family.

What is abundantly clear is that this family has its secrets and dirty laundry they don't want anyone to know. It was clearly stated in one of the jail visits early on in the case. Casey assured her mother that she didn't speak openly with the psychologist and didn't "tell them anything".

It's obvious that this is what the desire for private meetings is all about. Lyon needs all the "dirt" and family secrets in her ammunition pack if she hopes to overcome the death penalty.

In a sense, Lyon is asking George, Cindy, and Lee to meet with Casey to get the information. Then, should the case come to the DP phase, she can promptly throw them all under the proverbial bus to save Casey's life.

Will George, Cindy, and Lee be willing to do that?

Certainly not in public as it were.

Unfortunately for the defense, the jail cannot make special rules for the special young woman!

 

[Brini]

Seems to me a mitigation investigation is standard in DP case and typically commences as soon as possible upon learning that the prosecution intends to seek the death penalty. Perhaps the defense strategy is shifting or perhaps they are just doing their homework for the penalty phase (if/when).

The part that has me intrigued is that they need KC and her family together - that makes me think that perhaps something more is going on.

http://www.capital-mitigation-specialist.com/mitigation-investigations.htm

Sure they do! They have to get their stories together.

 

[Brini]

Thank you for bringing that quote here, it bears repeating.

In her very first court appearance, Lyons announced in front of the courthouse that he did not oppose Casey visiting with her family.

What is abundantly clear is that this family has its secrets and dirty laundry they don't want anyone to know. It was clearly stated in one of the jail visits early on in the case. Casey assured her mother that she didn't speak openly with the psychologist and didn't "tell them anything".

It's obvious that this is what the desire for private meetings is all about. Lyon needs all the "dirt" and family secrets in her ammunition pack if she hopes to overcome the death penalty.

In a sense, Lyon is asking George, Cindy, and Lee to meet with Casey to get the information. Then, should the case come to the DP phase, she can promptly throw them all under the proverbial bus to save Casey's life.

Will George, Cindy, and Lee be willing to do that?

Certainly not in public as it were.

Unfortunately for the defense, the jail cannot make special rules for the special young woman!

Not sure about dark secrets and dirty laundry.

My guess is that when KC said she "didn't tell them anything," she meant about the fight w/ CA that CA is so anxious to deny. The one that touched the whole thing off.

Sje also might have meant that she did not admit to having killed Caylee-- which is the biggest "shame" issue-- to the family, if not to KC.

 

[Brini]

http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/ProgMaterials/Conf2006/DDEFE.pdf

“Defending the Life-or-Death Case” by Andrea Lyon

pg 45

“Mitigation – reasons to punish with imprisonment rather than death – is any evidence that might tend to explain the client’s actions, family history, mental health issues, physical health matters, or the impact the client’s execution would have on his or her loved ones. The rules of evidence are relaxed at a penalty phase ......
......locating and presenting mitigating evidence – much of which is a matter of shame to the client and his family.”

The BIGGEST shame, of course, is that they really DO have a murdering daughter. NO family dysfunction is a greater shame than that.

The atty's efforts may involve getting the family to admit to that.

Of course she would have to have LWOP, because she is too dangerous to be out on the street.

 

[Brini]

There is ample "evidence" of the "strained" relationship between KC and Cindy.
KC told LE that she was totally afraid of her mother! Knew her mother would never forgive her.
KC's friends have told LE how bitter KC was about Cindy taking over the mother role with Caylee.
KC has said she was alienated from her father and had only just gotten close to him again when "this" happened. There are witnesses to George SCREAMING at KC and cursing at her.
KC has told friends that her brother made inappropriate sexual advances towards her.
KC has told friends that George had an affair and had been kicked out of the home, and Cindy's mother also sent emails to her own sister about all of this family discord.

But, remember.. KC lies like a cheap rug:

1) KC was never so totally afraid of CA that she didn't defy, countermand, and scream back at CA.

2) KC"s "bitterness" at CA's assumption of the mother role to Caylee did not prevent her from dumping Caylee on CA, at every opportunity.

3) Per both the immediate and extended family (including RP) GA was kicked out for losing money in a Nigerian scan, NOT for having an affair.

4) KC told one guy that LA had tried to touch her, once, in middle school. That could be her efforts to look "that hot" to a guy. I'm suspicious, because if it REALLY happened, I think she'd make more hay out of it. She liked to be seen as a victim of her family.

In short-- I suspect the family dysfunction is the result of two dominant females with personality disorders, plus two weak males. Also, GA being a poor provider, and a squanderer of family assets is going to add tension.

 

[Brini]

The emphasis on "mitigation" really caught my attention too! That is usually considered in the penalty phase of a trial, not in the guilt/innocence phase.

This is obviously Lyon's strategy - getting the family involved. This is straight from Lyon's instruction manual “Defending the Life-or-Death Case”. excerpt: 'Family members’ involvement can be key for the following reasons'. http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/ProgMaterials/Conf2006/DDEFE.pdf

I am just not quite connecting the dots on why Lyon is pressing for unmonitored, unrecorded family jail visits? Lyon can get whatever family history from KC (KC's distorted self-serving version of course), separate from getting the family history from Cindy (her distorted June Cleaver version of Anthony family life) and from George (telling whatever Cindy tells him to say). Why does there have to be "forced" (IMO KC wants nothing to do with her family) jail visits? Lyon can accomplish her goal without forcing KC to sit through visits with her parents and brother, against her will.

My impression is that Lyon is trying to steer the ship in the ways that she believes will work to get KC out of the death penalty, but she will most likely meet with MUCH resistance from this dysfunctional family.

There will be GREAT resistance to the admission of family dysfunction.

Dysfunctional families are always deeply ashamed they are not Ozzie and Harriet, and people will find that out.

My family was that way. The dirty secret? Dad was a drunk, who liked to hit his daughters and p--- his secretaries.

Such families KNOW they aren't "normal." but, their standards of "normalcy" are also irrational (read: Ozzie and Harriet).

 

[biggirl]

Hmm... not sure the ethical ramifications, but why doesn't JB/AL hire GA/CA/LA as part of the defense, and then they'll be covered by privilege during meetings? GA as security, CA as secretary?

...is that legal? or a fraud on the court?

Wow, that is an excellent idea. It probably is fraud, but it it brilliant. Not tapes if they are working for the defense team. (and they have been for some time)

They also seem to be working for any media outlet that will pay them to sit on their azzes so why not throw JB and co in the mix?:banghead:

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Also, about the taping, why not ask the judge to seal the tapes? I wouldn't think a judge would have a hard time saying a capital defendant's constitutional right to a fair trial trumps disclosure under the sunshine law to the media. Judges can always act equitably in the interest of justice. WESH isn't exactly an imperative party to the litigation

Because then the jail officials will be able to hear them all getting their lies...I mean stories straight. Anything that she asks them to do that tampers with things and includes them lying in court is yet another crime. You may have seen the latest Madeoff scandal with his taped phone conversations. Regardless it is preferential treatment and should be laughed out of court. There is this thing we have here in the US called the Constitution that makes us all equal under the law. To allow her unrecorded access to her family would set precedent and open the flood gates for every drug dealer and murderer in the country to site the case and ask that their conversations not be taped as well. Prison/Jail officials can even (and often do) read the mail that they have coming in from friends/family/fans. Not going to happen at all. Could be sealed, but I would think that their fighting of the gag order should come in to play with that, but I forgot for a second there that KC is innocent and special. :sick:

Allowing people to hear her conversation in jail does not violate her constitutional rights. If it did this would have been settled long ago by a far smarter criminal than KC and their far smarter defense attorney than JB. They have been recording these conversations for years and years. And if too much media attention is what is going to come into play hurting her constitutional rights then that ship sailed long ago. But again, they fought the gag order and won. They are always the ones on TV spouting their nonsense. I have never seen Yuri or anyone else from LE or the prosecution on TV spouting anything but straightforward fact that the public are entitled to. And in my opinion, there is far less media attention to KC now than there was months and months ago. If it weren't for here I would rarely even hear about anything that is going on.

 

[LeLe1953]

IMHO, which is really humble, the most interesting portion of yesterday's motions is Lyons' explanation of why the Anthony's need to visit without being taped. Much talk of 'mitigation'.

Am I totally offbase that the word 'mitigation' means Lyons' is admitting she did it? If not, what is there to mitigate?

From Lyons motio -- 'Mitigation often involves the investigation and discussion of painful and emotional past acts or occurrences or certainly circumstances surrounding the inmate and his crime that are not easily disclosed to strangers.'

and

'Miss Anthony must be allowed the support of her family and the ability to talk to her family while discussing these emotionally charged topics with her attorney. The inherent stressful nature of a mitigation investigation requires that the capitally charged person feel supported by her family while talking about what could be very difficult topics to discuss.'

Sounds to me like Lyons' saying she did it, but you shouldn't fry her. And she needs to visit with her family privately so Casey can announce, "under the bus you go, you go! No hard feelings, right?? Your not gonna, like, deny that you beat me / sexually abused me / were MEAN to me, right? 'Cause if you do, I'll be ever so mad at you and you can forget me ever waving to you in the courtroom."



Blaise

:banghead::banghead::furious::furious: I am beyond pizzed that the lawyers and the Anthony's all seem to think they are entitled to special treatment. She is a BABY KILLER NOT A FREAKING ROCK STAR. I saw lock mom up with her & they can pass notes written on toilet paper. I hate & I do mean HATE these people.