Almost hate to add my two cents,but it cannot be Amy Billig they found in the dunes,if the info on the doe site is accurate.Amy is too short and it also states something like three weeks to three days for estimated time of death for the lady of the dunes,unless they held the lady in question,Amy dissapeared in March,"lady" was found in July.Closer would be,doe file 138DFNY,Valarie Lorraine Cuccia.I could be wrong about everything I just posted.hee hee
Identified! MA - Provincetown, Race Point, 'Lady in the Dunes' WhtFem 27-49, UP11840, Jul'74 - Ruth Marie Terry
- Thread starter mysteriew
- Start date
It would be possible that Hadden Clark was involved in her disappearance, and by a coincidence, the prison in Jessup, Maryland is now Clark's home. Clark has admitted to murdering many women, but he has only been convicted of two murders: That of Laura Hotelling, and that of Michelle Dorr. In both of those cases, Clark was living in their vicinity for some time before making his move.upallnite said:
He was a gardener for the Hotelling family prior to Laura's abduction and murder, and he came under suspicion early on. He had killed Laura with a knife and had buried her body in a secluded spot where he camped regularly in his pick-up truck.
Earlier, in 1986, Clark had lived a few houses down from the Dorr family with his brother's family. Little Michelle Dorr was a friend of his neice and came over to play with her when only Hadden was at home.
Clark enticed Michelle into the house and murdered her there in a bedroom - again with a knife. He then buried her in a remote area not far from her home, and lied to police about knowing anything. He was considered a suspec early on, but it was not until police used a special type of chemical that could luminesce old blood that they obtained trace blood from Clark's former house, and it tested positive for Michelle's DNA. Many years later, and without a body, Maryland prosecutors obtained a first degree murder guilty verdict on Hadden Clark. Afterward, Clark agreed to lead investigators to her buried body.
Clark should be considered a very likely suspect in this case of the Dunes Lady. He actually confessed to a similar murder, the method of death fit his proven MO, and he was in the area at the time. The fact that investigators could not find a body when he tried to show them where it was might be because the body had been found back in 1974. It might be that after 25 years, his recollection of the actual location (in sand dunes) might have blurred. Clark is as crazy as a loon, so you have to consider possible memory blurring.
There are, of course, two possibilities with this murder. One is that she was simply sunbathing and the murderer came upon her entirely by chance, with no previous knowledge of her. The other is that the killer may well have known her and either accompanied or followed her to the beach.
With Clark's known victims (Laura and Michelle) elements of both chance and familiarity entered. Clark knew both girls, and he waited for a "chance" to kill them. If he is connected to the murder of the Dunes Lady, I feel that he probably "knew" her in some way. Probably not on a normal personal level, but as a weirdo in close contact with her - maybe a neighbor or work acquaintance. Or maybe someone that he saw several times before at a bus stop or business place. It would have been in character for Hadden to have followed and spied on this girl, and waited his chance to kill her.
I do not know what specifics Clark gave LE, but he is a pathological liar, so anything he told them regarding this girl has to be suspect. If, however, his residence, work place, and other hangouts were known for that time, perhaps there is a missing person from the vicinity who would be a possible match to this woman.
I think Amy Billig is still a possiblity for two reasons. First, the height thing is usually an estimate, and I'm not sure how accurate LE could be on a victim with a nearly severed head. Secondly, Amy disappeared from Florida, and this victim was found in Massachusetts. If the victim is Amy Billig, she would have to be alive for however long it took for her to get to MA. If she was hitchhiking or riding with a biker gang, it seems likely that she could have spent several months on the road, traveling from place to place.upallnite said:
However, with that said, I think this is probably not Amy Billig because of the dental work. Doe network says the dental work is valued at 5-10k and was done in the "New York Style". It seems that in all the books and articles about Amy, there would have been some mention of all this dental work.
Any further updates on this case? Does anyone know if Amy Billig's DNA was ever compared with the victim's?
I was just looking at the Doe Network, and wondering the same thing about Valarie Cuccia and The Lady in the Dunes. But I'm sure they had a good reason to rule out that match.azure said:
I wonder how precise the age, height, and weight estimates are? Both Valarie and Amy Billig are slightly younger than the estimated age (25-40 years) of the Lady in the Dunes, and Amy was about 35 pounds lighter than the Lady in the Dunes. But both do bear a resemblance.
I think that Hadden Clark is the most likely killer of this woman. I wonder if any of his collection of Jewlry (dug up with his assistance during investigations) might be connected in some way with her.
Hadden Clark agreed to assist investigators and to point out places to dig, as long as they would allow him to wear women's clothing on his outings. He reportedly looked for his sand dune victim, but could not find her.
Hadden Clark agreed to assist investigators and to point out places to dig, as long as they would allow him to wear women's clothing on his outings. He reportedly looked for his sand dune victim, but could not find her.
PonderingThings
Former member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 1,752
- Reaction score
- 210
The page has been updated. New images and stats changed.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/119ufma.html
# Unidentified White Female Located on July 26, 1974 in the Race Point Dunes, Provincetown, Barnstable County, Massachusetts.
# Cause of death was a blow to the head.
# Estimated Date of Death: 10 days to three weeks.
# Her nickname is The Lady in the Dunes
Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 25 - 40 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5' 6-1/2"; 145 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Long, auburn or reddish-blond hair. Athletic body. 34" waist, 31" legs. Her hair was tied in a ponytail with a rubber-type barrette. Her toenails were painted pink.
* Dentals: Extensive dental work. She had gold crowns on her teeth worth $5000 up to $10,000 at that time. The dental work was done in what dentists call "the New York style" of dental work. Dental charts available.
* Clothing: Jeans were found at the scene. She wore a elastic barrette in her hair. She lay on one half of a light green, heavy cotton beach blanket.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/119ufma.html
# Unidentified White Female Located on July 26, 1974 in the Race Point Dunes, Provincetown, Barnstable County, Massachusetts.
# Cause of death was a blow to the head.
# Estimated Date of Death: 10 days to three weeks.
# Her nickname is The Lady in the Dunes
Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 25 - 40 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5' 6-1/2"; 145 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Long, auburn or reddish-blond hair. Athletic body. 34" waist, 31" legs. Her hair was tied in a ponytail with a rubber-type barrette. Her toenails were painted pink.
* Dentals: Extensive dental work. She had gold crowns on her teeth worth $5000 up to $10,000 at that time. The dental work was done in what dentists call "the New York style" of dental work. Dental charts available.
* Clothing: Jeans were found at the scene. She wore a elastic barrette in her hair. She lay on one half of a light green, heavy cotton beach blanket.
PonderingThings
Former member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 1,752
- Reaction score
- 210
[size=-1][font=arial,verdana,geneva,lucida]Sorry deleted as I got confused with dates and this post was incorrect[/font][/size]
PonderingThings
Former member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 1,752
- Reaction score
- 210
[font=arial,verdana,geneva,lucida][size=-1]http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1311dfwi.html[/size][/font]
Catherine Lynne Sjoberg
Missing since June 5, 1974 from Concord, Jefferson County, Wisconsin.
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics
* Date Of Birth: January 15, 1957
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5" (165 cm); 120 lbs (54 kg)
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; green eyes.
* AKA: Cathy
Circumstances of Disappearance
Sjoberg was last seen leaving her high school prom during the early morning hours of June 5, 1974. She has not been seen or heard from since.
************
She is 1.5" shorter and 4 yrs younger. There is no mention of dentals.
Catherine Lynne Sjoberg
Missing since June 5, 1974 from Concord, Jefferson County, Wisconsin.
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics
* Date Of Birth: January 15, 1957
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5" (165 cm); 120 lbs (54 kg)
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; green eyes.
* AKA: Cathy
Circumstances of Disappearance
Sjoberg was last seen leaving her high school prom during the early morning hours of June 5, 1974. She has not been seen or heard from since.
************
She is 1.5" shorter and 4 yrs younger. There is no mention of dentals.
HI, I am newbie here and very interested in any leads on Catherine,. I know a cousin of hers and host her story on my Missing persons website. I came here looking for another Wisconsinite and thought Maybe I see what if anything is here on Catherine....I sent him this link as well....her cousin...to this forum...Surely I know this family would appreciate any kind of closure or finding here as well....
If you search out thebubbler that is his forum and dotcom....that is her cousin..
)
It is a Wisconsin forum but outsiders are welcome and there I have same ID so you can see where I link to websleuths under the missing folks..General section.....Thanks for any leads on her...from me and the family!!
Jan from Wisconsin
If you search out thebubbler that is his forum and dotcom....that is her cousin..
)It is a Wisconsin forum but outsiders are welcome and there I have same ID so you can see where I link to websleuths under the missing folks..General section.....Thanks for any leads on her...from me and the family!!
Jan from Wisconsin
PonderingThings
Former member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 1,752
- Reaction score
- 210
Thanks for posting Jan!oakie06 said:HI, I am newbie here and very interested in any leads on Catherine,. I know a cousin of hers and host her story on my Missing persons website. I came here looking for another Wisconsinite and thought Maybe I see what if anything is here on Catherine....I sent him this link as well....her cousin...to this forum...Surely I know this family would appreciate any kind of closure or finding here as well....
If you search out thebubbler that is his forum and dotcom....that is her cousin..
It is a Wisconsin forum but outsiders are welcome and there I have same ID so you can see where I link to websleuths under the missing folks..General section.....Thanks for any leads on her...from me and the family!!
Jan from Wisconsin
I posted about Catherine possibly being a match to the Jane Doe as I find the stats and the resemblence very close... perhaps a member of her family, or a friend should review the information?
Another possibility to consider, though this might be a long shot...
Elizabeth Swann
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1667dfuk.html
Elizabeth Swann
Missing since early 1974 from Birmingham, England, United Kingdom
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics
Circumstances of Disappearance
Swann was last seen in Birmingham, United Kingdom in early 1974. At the time she had been staying with one of her brothers in Birmingham. Elizabeth told him she had accepted a receptionist job in Gloucester. She said she intended to hitch-hike there to take it up. Elizabeth was never heard from again.
=================================================
Here's a hypothetical for Elizabeth... She's from England, so this is quite a stretch. But, perhaps she was abducted from England and brought to the United States (for prostitution?), possibly to New York City. She somehow was able to get away from her abductors and made her way to Massachusetts/Cape Cod area. Or her abductors brought her there. And at some point she encountered the killer.
What strikes me is the resemblance of Elizabeth to this reconstruction, particularly the long nose, the chin, the mouth, the shape of the face. I admit, though, that the photo of Elizabeth is not the best view:
I can only speculate about how to explain details like the gold teeth. Perhaps Elizabeth could have had dental work done in the U.S., although who would pay for such expensive work? Her abductors?
Long shot, guys! But what do you think? Here is the link to the Lady of the Dunes on DoeNetwork again: http://doenetwork.us/cases/119ufma.html
Elizabeth Swann
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1667dfuk.html
Elizabeth Swann
Missing since early 1974 from Birmingham, England, United Kingdom
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics
- Age at Time of Disappearance: 23 years old
- Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5"7".
- Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Long blonde hair worn in a ponytail; blue eyes. Slim build.
Circumstances of Disappearance
Swann was last seen in Birmingham, United Kingdom in early 1974. At the time she had been staying with one of her brothers in Birmingham. Elizabeth told him she had accepted a receptionist job in Gloucester. She said she intended to hitch-hike there to take it up. Elizabeth was never heard from again.
=================================================
Here's a hypothetical for Elizabeth... She's from England, so this is quite a stretch. But, perhaps she was abducted from England and brought to the United States (for prostitution?), possibly to New York City. She somehow was able to get away from her abductors and made her way to Massachusetts/Cape Cod area. Or her abductors brought her there. And at some point she encountered the killer.
What strikes me is the resemblance of Elizabeth to this reconstruction, particularly the long nose, the chin, the mouth, the shape of the face. I admit, though, that the photo of Elizabeth is not the best view:
I can only speculate about how to explain details like the gold teeth. Perhaps Elizabeth could have had dental work done in the U.S., although who would pay for such expensive work? Her abductors?
Long shot, guys! But what do you think? Here is the link to the Lady of the Dunes on DoeNetwork again: http://doenetwork.us/cases/119ufma.html
WhiteWolf
New Member
Richard said:
Richard, I just started this thread, and you already have a viable suspect. I'm impressed! Haddon Clark has some similarities to the Hannibal Lector in "Silence of the Lambs". Bon appetite!
Bumping an old thread - just finished the book about the Billig's.
The Lady in the Dunes had a large amount of dental work done in the "new york style."
Amy's doe page lists her as having "much dental work" and they did live in new york prior to moving to coconut grove fl.
any updates on this??
The Lady in the Dunes had a large amount of dental work done in the "new york style."
Amy's doe page lists her as having "much dental work" and they did live in new york prior to moving to coconut grove fl.
any updates on this??
I just watched a show on this last weekend. I think it was Psychic Detectives, which I don't watch, but I was intrigued by the case. Does anyone know if Amy was ever ruled out?