MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

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Tried to post this yesterday but somehow it disappeared (through no fault of administrators). Must have been an internet glitch. First though - thanks to all the great comments and ideas here. Great to see so many haven't forgotten about Vanessa, even though we're coming up on four months.

I still think parking on BSR for about 30 minutes (at a minimum) is a problem, especially when you consider 1) how close BSR is to the police station (minutes), right down the road; 2) that the owner or a neighbor could conceivably have driven by and called/stopped that day- if this was planned, that's a big risk to take on a weekend in broad daylight; and 3) that there are no obvious reasons to stop there. That path off BSR is no trail and nothing is nearby (as Rocky said); and 4) the risk of someone smelling smoke and calling it in. Also, there is the idea that if the perp had his car there, why not put her into car and drive to another safer locale? I just can't conceive of anyone taking that risk without a very good reason.

I think searunner's idea makes sense and Rocky's too. It would be easy to confuse a dark unmarked police SUV parked on the side of the road at, say, 4 or 5, with a dark SUV seen there at 3. And witnesses are quite often unreliable. Also, why the three-month wait? That just makes no sense to me. If it's a recent tip, then that lends even more credence to the idea the witness/witnesses recollections may be off.

Another possibility - the perp accidentally left something incriminating at the scene and had to return. He would be in a hurry to retrieve it and would take that risk. If he did drive a dark SUV he may even have felt somewhat confident, knowing witnesses might dismiss the vehicle as police and not call in a tip about it.

One last idea - Neither the DA, newspaper "sources," or the police have mentioned a sexual assault. All references I've seen about this refer back to the early press conferences. Recent police statements/releases make no mention of it. It could mean she wasn't in fact assaulted or could just mean they're keeping quiet on everything but the dark SUV.
 
Tried to post this yesterday but somehow it disappeared (through no fault of administrators). Must have been an internet glitch. First though - thanks to all the great comments and ideas here. Great to see so many haven't forgotten about Vanessa, even though we're coming up on four months.

I still think parking on BSR for about 30 minutes (at a minimum) is a problem, especially when you consider 1) how close BSR is to the police station (minutes), right down the road; 2) that the owner or a neighbor could conceivably have driven by and called/stopped that day- if this was planned, that's a big risk to take on a weekend in broad daylight; and 3) that there are no obvious reasons to stop there. That path off BSR is no trail and nothing is nearby (as Rocky said); and 4) the risk of someone smelling smoke and calling it in. Also, there is the idea that if the perp had his car there, why not put her into car and drive to another safer locale? I just can't conceive of anyone taking that risk without a very good reason.

I think searunner's idea makes sense and Rocky's too. It would be easy to confuse a dark unmarked police SUV parked on the side of the road at, say, 4 or 5, with a dark SUV seen there at 3. And witnesses are quite often unreliable. Also, why the three-month wait? That just makes no sense to me. If it's a recent tip, then that lends even more credence to the idea the witness/witnesses' recollections may be off.

Another possibility - the perp accidentally left something incriminating at the scene and had to return. He would be in a hurry to retrieve it and would take that risk. If he did drive a dark SUV he may even have felt somewhat confident, knowing witnesses might dismiss the vehicle as police and not call in a tip about it.

One last idea - Neither the DA, newspaper "sources," or the police have mentioned a sexual assault recently. All references I've seen about this refer back to the early press conferences. Recent police statements/releases make no mention of it. It could mean she wasn't in fact assaulted or could just mean they're keeping quiet on everything but the dark SUV.
 
Tried to post this yesterday but somehow it disappeared (through no fault of administrators). Must have been an internet glitch. First though - thanks to all the great comments and ideas here. Great to see so many haven't forgotten about Vanessa, even though we're coming up on four months.

I still think parking on BSR for about 30 minutes (at a minimum) is a problem, especially when you consider 1) how close BSR is to the police station (minutes), right down the road; 2) that the owner or a neighbor could conceivably have driven by and called/stopped that day- if this was planned, that's a big risk to take on a weekend in broad daylight; and 3) that there are no obvious reasons to stop there. That path off BSR is no trail and nothing is nearby (as Rocky said); and 4) the risk of someone smelling smoke and calling it in. Also, there is the idea that if the perp had his car there, why not put her into car and drive to another safer locale? I just can't conceive of anyone taking that risk without a very good reason.

I think searunner's idea makes sense and Rocky's too. It would be easy to confuse a dark unmarked police SUV parked on the side of the road at, say, 4 or 5, with a dark SUV seen there at 3. And witnesses are quite often unreliable. Also, why the three-month wait? That just makes no sense to me. If it's a recent tip, then that lends even more credence to the idea the witness/witnesses recollections may be off.

Another possibility - the perp accidentally left something incriminating at the scene and had to return. He would be in a hurry to retrieve it and would take that risk. If he did drive a dark SUV he may even have felt somewhat confident, knowing witnesses might dismiss the vehicle as police and not call in a tip about it.

One last idea - Neither the DA, newspaper "sources," or the police have mentioned a sexual assault. All references I've seen about this refer back to the early press conferences. Recent police statements/releases make no mention of it. It could mean she wasn't in fact assaulted or could just mean they're keeping quiet on everything but the dark SUV.
I was thinking about people driving by, and possibly smelling smoke, if there was any, so I checked the weather for that day, and I'll post the chart.
At 1 PM, the wind was blowing at about 5 mph from the west.
At 2 pm, the wind was blowing at about 5 mph from the north west
At 3 pm, the wind was blowing at about 10 mph from the west.
Brook Station Road, where she was found, is slightly NE/SW, so if there was any smoke, that means it was blowing about 90 degrees away from BSR, meaning that it wouldn't have traveled across BSR where people would smell it, but more towards the woods.
If you scroll down on the chart, you can see wind speed/direction.

https://www.wunderground.com/histor...reqdb.zip=01541&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999
 
This is a small community. I would think a parked car would generate alot of interest in a community like that. Locals?

I am not local to Princeton but am to a small rural Massachusetts town. Actually in my opinion no. There are people that park and walk through the woods, hike, run their dogs etc. And this time of the year it is the hunters. I have never thought it was out of the norm but if something like this had happened I would remember if I was on that road and had seen a vehicle parked but really only then. You think your little town is a safe haven but really no where is today.
 
Sources: Police are using new DNA technology to give Vanessa Marcotte’s killer a face http://whdh.com/investigations/cher...logy-to-give-vanessa-marcottes-killer-a-face/

Great find! Thanks, JEF, for posting.

I was just wondering if they did more advanced DNA analysis. The article makes it sound like they've just recently taken advantage of this tech or will be doing so soon. Of course, we can't know that for sure. But if that's accurate, why the heck the wait? If this killer is still a threat (meaning he's not in jail or deceased), why wouldn't this technology be used sooner? We're talking a public safety issue.

Here's the most relevant snippet from the article:

[FONT=&amp]"We focus on externally visible traits. So we do eye color, hair color, skin color, freckling, the shaping of the face, then also the person’s geographic ancestry or ethnic ancestry. So where their ancestors are from. Using DNA gathered at a crime scene,” said Ellen McRae Greyak, the director of the Virginia lab, Parabon."

[/FONT]
The other impt part was that the tech can't predict height or weight. The tech seems best used to rule out potential suspects.

Well, IF the dark SUV is somehow involved and they know some likely key physical traits of the killer, things would be looking up.
 
Tried to post this yesterday but somehow it disappeared (through no fault of administrators). Must have been an internet glitch. First though - thanks to all the great comments and ideas here. Great to see so many haven't forgotten about Vanessa, even though we're coming up on four months.

I still think parking on BSR for about 30 minutes (at a minimum) is a problem, especially when you consider 1) how close BSR is to the police station (minutes), right down the road; 2) that the owner or a neighbor could conceivably have driven by and called/stopped that day- if this was planned, that's a big risk to take on a weekend in broad daylight; and 3) that there are no obvious reasons to stop there. That path off BSR is no trail and nothing is nearby (as Rocky said); and 4) the risk of someone smelling smoke and calling it in. Also, there is the idea that if the perp had his car there, why not put her into car and drive to another safer locale? I just can't conceive of anyone taking that risk without a very good reason.

I think searunner's idea makes sense and Rocky's too. It would be easy to confuse a dark unmarked police SUV parked on the side of the road at, say, 4 or 5, with a dark SUV seen there at 3. And witnesses are quite often unreliable. Also, why the three-month wait? That just makes no sense to me. If it's a recent tip, then that lends even more credence to the idea the witness/witnesses recollections may be off.

Another possibility - the perp accidentally left something incriminating at the scene and had to return. He would be in a hurry to retrieve it and would take that risk. If he did drive a dark SUV he may even have felt somewhat confident, knowing witnesses might dismiss the vehicle as police and not call in a tip about it.

One last idea - Neither the DA, newspaper "sources," or the police have mentioned a sexual assault. All references I've seen about this refer back to the early press conferences. Recent police statements/releases make no mention of it. It could mean she wasn't in fact assaulted or could just mean they're keeping quiet on everything but the dark SUV.

I'll second your comment about it's good to see all the input and people haven't forgotten about Vanessa. I don't routinely follow crime cases, but it seems that these stories are often soon forgotten, as they're replaced by fresh news. I just hope she didn't suffer too much.

Great post. Agree with all points. I'm not a local, but I have similar areas not far from me and wouldn't find it odd to see a car pulled off the road. I know people who live in similar areas and I don't think most of them would find it strange either. Besides most people have their own stuff on their mind.

With that being said, I agree with you that IF this was a planned act, it would seem insanely risky to park a car near that spot, as there is always the possibility a cop driving by might decide to investigate. So there appears a disconnect. So it seems likely to me that the killer (1) gets off on high risk activities (in which case, perhaps his hobbies reflect this); or (2) isn't that bright; or (3) didn't plan in advance to kill Vanessa (has low impulse control or a hot temper).

I'm glad you brought the sexual assault topic back up, as I responded to your post on the topic just before the new thread started, so that conversation kind of ended. Like the car being involved scenario, there also seems a disconnect here. This string of possible facts doesn't make sense to me: Act planned - rape or attempted sexual assault occurred - burning motive was to destroy DNA - killer fairly intelligent. I would think that if he sexually assaulted her or attempted to and the burning motive was to erase evidence, then he'd try to burn her private parts. Or he'd realize that internal DNA would be hard to wipe away (unless he set her entire body ablaze; ugh; I hate typing that) and just leave the CS immediately rather that wasting time burning only some parts of her body that could have DNA on them.
 
AUG 09 2016

"There are reports that she was naked and there were burns on her hand and feet and signs of sexual assault, CBS2’s Janelle Burrell reported."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/nyc-google-worker-killed-massachusetts/

Then, the LEO requested volunteer DNA swabs from the community. Recently, they've released that a dark SUV was seen parked along the road near the TOD. LEO did not announce all of the other 1000 tips so this tip about the dark SUV must have some level of authenticity to it.

I feel the sexual assault remains in the envelope. LEO acts as if they have the killer's DNA for a reason.
 
AUG 09 2016

"There are reports that she was naked and there were burns on her hand and feet and signs of sexual assault, CBS2’s Janelle Burrell reported."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/nyc-google-worker-killed-massachusetts/

Then, the LEO requested volunteer DNA swabs from the community. Recently, they've released that a dark SUV was seen parked along the road near the TOD. LEO did not announce all of the other 1000 tips so this tip about the dark SUV must have some level of authenticity to it.

I feel the sexual assault remains in the envelope. LEO acts as if they have the killer's DNA for a reason.
But that is from early August. Why no recent comments re assault?

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AUG 09 2016

"There are reports that she was naked and there were burns on her hand and feet and signs of sexual assault, CBS2’s Janelle Burrell reported."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/nyc-google-worker-killed-massachusetts/

Then, the LEO requested volunteer DNA swabs from the community. Recently, they've released that a dark SUV was seen parked along the road near the TOD. LEO did not announce all of the other 1000 tips so this tip about the dark SUV must have some level of authenticity to it.

I feel the sexual assault remains in the envelope. LEO acts as if they have the killer's DNA for a reason.
How would it benefit investigators not to mention info already alluded to? Compare to the Karina Veteran case where it was confirmed later. Again maybe it means nothing at all.
But that is from early August. Why no recent comments re assault?

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Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
AUG 09 2016

"There are reports that she was naked and there were burns on her hand and feet and signs of sexual assault, CBS2’s Janelle Burrell reported."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/nyc-google-worker-killed-massachusetts/

Then, the LEO requested volunteer DNA swabs from the community. Recently, they've released that a dark SUV was seen parked along the road near the TOD. LEO did not announce all of the other 1000 tips so this tip about the dark SUV must have some level of authenticity to it.

I feel the sexual assault remains in the envelope. LEO acts as if they have the killer's DNA for a reason.

DNA could be under her nails too
 
I see the comments about smoke. In my opinion, this wasn't a significant fire. It sounds like the perp left burns on her, but didn't necessarily set her on fire. If that's true, I'm not sure there would be much smoke. Probably just some odor, if anything. From what LE has described, and what we saw of the crime scene, I don't think there was a fire significant enough to alarm anyone. And you can smell something burning in your neighborhood and not call the cops. It happens.

The area also appeared to be very dry. I think more than just a lighter may have caused an actual fire. Thoughts from locals?
 
"burns on her hand and feet"....
I wonder if these burns were defensive wounds ... like, perp tried to set VM on fire and she fought him off -- held her hands to her face to shield it and kicked the perp -- maybe he pulled her shoe off and threw it then and forgot about it or couldn't find it, so when LE recovered the shoe it contained the perp's DNA, too. IF that's the case, LE expects bruising on the perp (IIRC, they said scratches and bruises). VM would've continued kicking the perp as he tried to set her on fire, thus the burns on her feet, IMO, until he restrained her. I think he used something larger than a Bic lighter to cause the burns. Poor Vanessa. She did not deserve this.

The perp seems to be:

1.) Young and ignorant about the risks he was taking.
2.) An experienced predator, who enjoys taking risks. They are usually narcissists who believe they are smarter than everyone else, including LE.

Either way, the perp was interested only in fulfilling his own obsessions/compulsions. He did not view VM as a sentient human being. I hope he is ID'd and arrested before he strikes again. If he feels he has gotten away with this, it will give him more confidence.
 
I see the comments about smoke. In my opinion, this wasn't a significant fire. It sounds like the perp left burns on her, but didn't necessarily set her on fire. If that's true, I'm not sure there would be much smoke. Probably just some odor, if anything. From what LE has described, and what we saw of the crime scene, I don't think there was a fire significant enough to alarm anyone. And you can smell something burning in your neighborhood and not call the cops. It happens.

The area also appeared to be very dry. I think more than just a lighter may have caused an actual fire. Thoughts from locals?

Not only that - at that time we were 12 inches below normal rainfall. In fact the most severe drought in recorded history. I still think - and this is JMO - The burns are more related to some kind of torture, like a lighter or cigarette. There was some report that there were bindings that were burned around her hands and feet but I can't find a link to that.

In any case I doubt there was a fire or even noticeable smoke that day. Fire danger warnings were reported in the weather reports every day as high.The video of the supposed crime scene showed charred trees with green grass below. How in the world of physics does that happen?

IMO those charred trees, both upright and horizontal were old scars from an old brush fire. The spot that I saw where she was found was said on a video as a burn mark. To me it looked more like CSI had removed some soil from under the body looking for trace evidence. Everything else was green weeds.

Again JMO and I wish I saved the video and reports in my bookmarks but alas...

MOO
 
Great find! Thanks, JEF, for posting.

I was just wondering if they did more advanced DNA analysis. The article makes it sound like they've just recently taken advantage of this tech or will be doing so soon. Of course, we can't know that for sure. But if that's accurate, why the heck the wait? If this killer is still a threat (meaning he's not in jail or deceased), why wouldn't this technology be used sooner? We're talking a public safety issue.

Here's the most relevant snippet from the article:

[FONT=&]"We focus on externally visible traits. So we do eye color, hair color, skin color, freckling, the shaping of the face, then also the person’s geographic ancestry or ethnic ancestry. So where their ancestors are from. Using DNA gathered at a crime scene,” said Ellen McRae Greyak, the director of the Virginia lab, Parabon."

[/FONT]
The other impt part was that the tech can't predict height or weight. The tech seems best used to rule out potential suspects.

Well, IF the dark SUV is somehow involved and they know some likely key physical traits of the killer, things would be looking up.

I share your impulse to wonder why LE would hesitate to deploy this awesome tool. But I bet it will prove tricky to apply, or at least until LE and the legal system gets its arms around it. Remember the polygraph. In some ways, DNA face estimations would be less good than a witness sketch - DNA won't tell you how fat, old, hairy, tatooed, pierced or scared up a perp is - and we know that witness sketches are often of limited help, and sometimes mislead.
 
Posting some screen shots of the trees near where the body was found that are from Bob Ward's Facebook talk. I think they look like new burns and then there is the other burnt tree in the background
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. I do think the trees suggest the site was prearranged (i.e. the killer set up those trees beforehand) or that at least the killer chose that spot beforehand. If the crime wasn't random, I believe he'd probably watched her run from BSR before. I also think it's possible he'd watched the house at various points. It's a heavily wooded area and it was summer. Easy to stay hidden.

As for the killer, the risk of the crime suggests a thrill seeker, possibly someone with alcohol or substance issues and arrests for (at the very least) smaller crimes - for fighting, speeding, etc. I also believe such a risk taker would have posted "clues" on social media accounts. By now he's feeling confident police have nothing and he thinks he's smarter than they are. Speculation only!

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Hi JEF, been so busy the last week or two haven't had time to keep up with developments - Who is Bob Ward? Is there a link to the photos you have posted above? thanks in advance. t

ETA I think you are referencing Bob Ward of Fox 25. Not finding those pics on his FB page. Are they on the station page or stills from a video located on either of those pages?
 
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