Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 3

[Morag]

Has this been reported elsewhere? It/s extra creepy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/18/wmaddy18.xml
Claims were made yesterday in a Portuguese newspaper that home-made video tapes of a "disturbing sexual nature" were found at Mr Murat's villa.

This may be important:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007210138,00.html
"A “WEIRD” man bothering children was reported two weeks ago to staff at the resort where toddler Madeleine McCann was snatched, it was claimed today.
A mother raised the alarm with police after seeing the suspicious man loitering around apartments."

After I re-read this, it sounded like she may have seen a maintenance person at work, rather than something more ominous.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I NEVER said that you all weren't allowed to express your opinions, but the subject of this board is Missing People; not Neglectful Parents. I was asking that we stay on topic. If this board goes in the direction back to bashing the parents, I will find another board to actually discuss the missing person.

And MoonGoddess, I've seen your bashing posts on lots of other boards. It's sad that you have made it your mission to condemn the parents--instead of findng this poor, lost child.

All I want is to discuss the missing person and the case to find her.

Doodle, I have read through MoonGoddess posts and there is no bashing! She has only been a member for a week and you for a day. Also, she has not posted on lots of other boards. MoonGoddess has a total of 24 posts!!! She has simply stated that the parents are ultimately responsible for what happened to Maddie. That is a fact. It does not mean that they intentionally allowed her to be kidnapped (if that is what happened), it just menas that it would not have happened had they not left her alone. There is no arguement to be had there it is simply the truth. We here at webslueths discuss all aspects of a case including what led up to the said event. It is not bashing!

 

[MoonGoddess]

Doodle, I have read through MoonGoddess posts and there is no bashing! She has only been a member for a week and you for a day. Also, she has not posted on lots of other boards. MoonGoddess has a total of 24 posts!!! She has simply stated that the parents are ultimately responsible for what happened to Maddie. That is a fact. It does not mean that they intentionally allowed her to be kidnapped (if that is what happened), it just menas that it would not have happened had they not left her alone. There is no arguement to be had there it is simply the truth. We here at webslueths discuss all aspects of a case including what led up to the said event. It is not bashing!

I appreciate that sleuthin4fun.

I am stunned by that accusation and have reported it to the Moderators.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Doodlebug...You don't get to tell us what we can and can't post...We have moderators for that.

And the parents clearly put this child in harms way...There is a mom doing time in GA right now for not watching her toddlers (the two kids that drowned in a retention pond across the street).

 

[CarpeDiem]

Having traveled alot with 2 toddlers myself (not twins), I can understand leaving them safely in the care of the aunt. Their routine will be kept as normal as possible, and they will be safe. The parents, meanwhile, can concentrate on the purpose of their trip (which is only a day or so) and then return posthaste. This makes sense to me, as a parent, and shows that the McCanns are actively thinking about what is best for their children. It is tragic they did not show this forethought previously.

I pray God that I will never know their anguish and heartache. I do not personally feel they are involved (other than leaving her alone that night). I do not presume to know how I would react, or act, or what my actions would be. I do think I would move heaven and earth to find her. If that means "sucking up to the media" as someone else put it, I would do that. I would see every dignitary, president, queen, king or pope who would hold audience with me if it meant keeping her disappearance in the public spotlight.

Sadly, in the US I haven't seen her case mentioned in the news in over a week. I have to check online for news. I pray the coverage continues in the rest of the world and that it helps find her.

Welcome. Great first post. But, her case has been mentioned in the US media more often than that, just the past two days a lot of coverage of the upcoming visit with the Pope. And a newspaper in Arizona has had a lot of coverage of the story, articles no one else has run, go figure. I too use the internet for a lot of news stories, Google News with the search term Madeleine McCann, sorted by date, works well.

Edited to add, here is the publication out of Arizona that has run a lot of stories on Madeleine, The National Ledger. This one was from this morning:

Police Botch Suspect Description:
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272613701.shtml

 

[Shazza]

You can try to excuse the parents all you want......some of us have different opinions and we are allowed to express them
The parents are copping flack because of their continuing poor choices.....if they had used better judgement in the first place we wouldnt even be here discussing this case.

Exactly, we are not parent bashing, it is stating facts, we dont have enough facts on the whereabouts of Madelaine, I am saying that the parents are more involved in this than we think and the behaviour they are showing while their daughter is missing is not normal for parents who have a missing daughter, who btw wouldnt be missing if they had taken better care of her.

 

[Shazza]

I appreciate that sleuthin4fun.

I am stunned by that accusation and have reported it to the Moderators.

You have a lot of posters who support your posts, I too am one of those posters, how can you be parent bashing when you are stating fact.

We all want the same outcome, for Madelaine to be found safe and sound.

 

[Jdee]

To answer your question simply.. no... but it was these parents fault.

 

[Shazza]

That is want we all want, and if the children were being watched, yes they could have been taken at any time if that is what happened, you are assuming that they were kidnapped, a kidnapping has not yet been proven. The parents left the children alone in an unlocked room where they could not see or hear them, which is contrary to what they said. If I leave a child in a parked car while I went into the shop for a minute I would be have been hauled up before a judge and charged with child neglect, what these parents did was neglect and should pay accordingly. You say to stop parent bashing, but we are stating fact, everything else that is being discussed on this thread has not been proven so there are a lot of different scenerios being thrown in here that we all have different opinions about, but we are not accusing anybody else that their opinion is wrong and a lot of what is being said is obviously not right, we are all trying to picture what happened without knowing the all the facts.

Just chill a little, your opinion is not being questioned just your accusations.

 

[doodlebugstudio]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

 

[dingo]

Well said Shazza....we all hope and pray that Madeline is found safe.

 

[doodlebugstudio]

I will chill! I just would like the topic to get back to where it was. And I'm taking all of this way too personally. I feel like I'm being attacked and told I'm a bad parent for trying to understand the parents. I would never leave my children alone, but I also wouldn't be pointing fingers. I guess I'm that kind of person. I understand that everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes.

I feel horrible for these people and I get really angry when people beat-up people that are already down. I guess I've always felt for the underdog and I just feel people are not playing fair.

 

[dingo]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

We are looking for clues Doodle ....and untill this case is solved the parents are as suspect as anyone else who was near Madeline that night.
The parents are the biggest part of the case at the moment......so far they are the only ones proven to have done something to endanger Madeline.
Stop telling us to move on!

 

[mjak]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

Herein lies the confusion. You vew the case as being seperate from the parental neglect issue. Others, including myself feel it can not be seprated because at this point we can not conclude that the parents are not involved with Maddie's dissapearence. Therefore, to our thinking there behavior needs to be analyzied inorder to find clues. What makes Websleuths work the best is when people are able to express various opinions and insight. When a person becomes angry and tries to supress another members thoughts this deminshes the constuctive communication we have and is not conducive to a good sleuthing environment. I encourage you to continue to express your beliefs but at the same time show respect for other opnions and insight. If people post topis that are not of intrest to you then you are free to bypass. Please do not ask that those topics cease. IF we put constraints on the flow of ideas because of what we find tasteful then we are hindering our own investigatory progress by closing off information flow.

Thanks
mjak

 

[Shazza]

I will chill! I just would like the topic to get back to where it was. And I'm taking all of this way too personally. I feel like I'm being attacked and told I'm a bad parent for trying to understand the parents. I would never leave my children alone, but I also wouldn't be pointing fingers. I guess I'm that kind of person. I understand that everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes.

I feel horrible for these people and I get really angry when people beat-up people that are already down. I guess I've always felt for the underdog and I just feel people are not playing fair.

This is a very emotional thread for me also, it really is doing my head in, and there has been many a time where I would really like to say to some of the posters on this thread what was really on my mind about what they were saying, but sometimes you have to bite your tongue, we all dont think alike and am sure that the majority of parents here wouldnt have left their children alone, I always think of the worst things that could happen and that really stresses me out. You sound like a very caring parent, and dont feel like the underdog here, I too have felt that nobody has listened to what I have had to say when I think it really has a significant bearing on this case, but I just keep on posting and reading and trying to figure out where little Madelaine could be. Keep posting your ideas and thoughts and opinions, maybe all of us together might be able to help solve and understand what has happened to Madelaine.

 

[harleysnana]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

doodlebugstudio... I appreciate your posting and your thoughts...but
a big part of this case is the fact that the parents left 3 very young
children unattended in a unlocked apartment!

It may be that they were targeted like you stated...
add that to the fact that they left the door unlocked...
Ill say it again and again...their neglect made it very easy for their child to be taken!

He probably did watch them.
He probably figured out that they were only checking
every 30 min or so.
He probably watched them leave the door unlocked
after checking on them.
IMO... had they not left the kids alone… or had they locked the doors each time they checked...
we might not be talking about this poor missing girl!

... I think this board is for people to post their thoughts!
It would be great if we could find clues and solve cases
in the meantime…. but that is not the only reason we have
this board.

IMO the before, during and after is a big part of solving a case.
And what the parents did before, during, and after play a big part of
this case as well as any case involving a missing child!

 

[CarpeDiem]

He probably did watch them.
He probably figured out that they were only checking
every 30 min or so.
He probably watched them leave the door unlocked
after checking on them.
IMO... had they not left the kids alone… or had they locked the doors each time they checked...
we might not be talking about this poor missing girl!

I have yet to figure out WHY they left the door unlocked. Because the random people in this party of 9 adults (including the McCann's) supposedly didn't go in the apartments the children were in, they just listened outside for crying. So why keep the door unlocked??

 

[Jdee]

I read that they did go in the apartment but the kids were in an inner room and they did not enter that room until Mrs. McCann opened the door and the inner door blew shut like a vacume which would have been created by an open window.

 

[Salem]

I only have a few minutes tonight - but whoever said that Maddie looks like Dawn, I think this is an EXCELLENT point.

Somewhere I read that the Portugese police think this could be some kind of "revenge" taking. Someone mad at the McCanns so they stole her daughter. Also, there is a bunch of talk about "sex" on both Murat's and McCanns sides. I haven't been paying much attention to it because I thought it sounded like "sour grapes."

But..... looking at Maddie and Dawn, maybe there is something there? We know it took fertility treatments or some such method for Ms. McCann to get pregnant. What if Dawn's eggs were used? See where I'm going with this?

I have to go to a meeting, but can't wait to get back here.

Prayers for Maddie - may she be found soon, alive and well!

Salem

 

[mjak]

I only have a few minutes tonight - but whoever said that Maddie looks like Dawn, I think this is an EXCELLENT point.

Somewhere I read that the Portugese police think this could be some kind of "revenge" taking. Someone mad at the McCanns so they stole her daughter. Also, there is a bunch of talk about "sex" on both Murat's and McCanns sides. I haven't been paying much attention to it because I thought it sounded like "sour grapes."

But..... looking at Maddie and Dawn, maybe there is something there? We know it took fertility treatments or some such method for Ms. McCann to get pregnant. What if Dawn's eggs were used? See where I'm going with this?

I have to go to a meeting, but can't wait to get back here.

Prayers for Maddie - may she be found soon, alive and well!

Salem

As farfeched as your idea may seem I can't discount it. This whole situation is bizzare and I am not counting any explanation out.

mjak