Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #32

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Pixie Child said:
Well, there’s the partial fingerprint, much will depend on that. And he had form for breaking & entering and assault as we know from the DM case. There may be other similarities to the DM case, if such evidence is allowed.
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All we know comes from the media. Not always reliable and prone to printing falsehoods and exaggerations.
 
Pixie Child said:
Yes but these Proceedings are about HBeahan & Ors. HB’s case is probably as good a rape case as any and there’s no reason why a Saxony Anhalt prosecution should not proceed.
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I was referring to the MM case. I feel that this is a convenient bureaucratic technicality that could allow the BKA to leave the case hanging indefinitely. No charge for CB but no confirmation of innocence either, just a media trial and conviction by HCW. Terrible outcome but one I think is possible, perhaps likely.
 
Denis R Tandib said:
I was referring to the MM case. I feel that this is a convenient bureaucratic technicality that could allow the BKA to leave the case hanging indefinitely. No charge for CB but no confirmation of innocence either, just a media trial and conviction by HCW. Terrible outcome but one I think is possible, perhaps likely.
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Yes, for sure. The Saxony Prosecutor could take a very different line.

The BKA already has a lot on their hands shutting down the German CP problem. They took down the Boys Town replacement with 410k subscribers in Dec ‘22. That represents a lot of live victims, with possibly many German children to identify.
 
Pixie Child said:
Yes, for sure. The Saxony Prosecutor could take a very different line.

The BKA already has a lot on their hands shutting down the German CP problem. They took down the Boys Town replacement with 410k subscribers in Dec ‘22. That represents a lot of live victims, with possibly many German children to identify.
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Good point. I think some may be hoping that this could result in the MM case being dropped. I doubt any prosecution would ever drop a case when there’s material evidence against a man for murdering a toddler. The same goes for the other cases IMO.
I doubt the new prosecution will question the validity of the evidence, however they may run the investigations slightly differently. IMO new arrests (for the 5 other cases) will follow relatively quickly should the case be moved to a different region. Fulscher can drag things out as much as he likes, but inevitably he will be faced with the evidence in a courtroom
 
Denis R Tandib said:
I was referring to the MM case. I feel that this is a convenient bureaucratic technicality that could allow the BKA to leave the case hanging indefinitely. No charge for CB but no confirmation of innocence either, just a media trial and conviction by HCW. Terrible outcome but one I think is possible, perhaps linvestigationikely.
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I don't think the BKA make decisions about charging people, they respond to requests for investigative help. It wasn't the Federal prosecutor who was seeking to charge CB, it was the Braunschweig prosecutor/s. I assume they requested the help of the BKA because the cases became complicated, needing investigation in various areas in Germany and overseas.
 
frank-cole said:
Good point. I think some may be hoping that this could result in the MM case being dropped. I doubt any prosecution would ever drop a case when there’s material evidence against a man for murdering a toddler. The same goes for the other cases IMO.
I doubt the new prosecution will question the validity of the evidence, however they may run the investigations slightly differently. IMO new arrests (for the 5 other cases) will follow relatively quickly should the case be moved to a different region. Fulscher can drag things out as much as he likes, but inevitably he will be faced with the evidence in a courtroom
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Hasn't HCW already told us he doesn't have any material evidence re: Madeleine?

He said three years ago "If you knew what we know" and he's still saying it. First time I saw him I thought he was a bluffer. He gambled (imo)
 
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frank-cole said:
Good point. I think some may be hoping that this could result in the MM case being dropped. I doubt any prosecution would ever drop a case when there’s material evidence against a man for murdering a toddler. The same goes for the other cases IMO.
I doubt the new prosecution will question the validity of the evidence, however they may run the investigations slightly differently. IMO new arrests (for the 5 other cases) will follow relatively quickly should the case be moved to a different region. Fulscher can drag things out as much as he likes, but inevitably he will be faced with the evidence in a courtroom
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I would expect a new prosecutor to carefully scrutinise all the evidence if only to avoid ending up with egg on his/her face
 
Lyall0814 said:
Hasn't HCW already told us he doesn't have any material evidence re: Madeleine?

He said three years ago "If you knew what we know" and he's still saying it. First time I saw him I thought he was a bluffer. He gambled (imo)
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SF ‘do you have material evidence’?

HCW ‘yes’

He’s also described it as material evidence (in German) via other interviews.

Whatever they have is non-forensic material evidence that proves MM is dead.

Their challenge is making sure there’s no room for the defence to cast any doubt between CB & the evidence.
For example; he had a photo of MM deceased on his device. Damning enough for the public to accept CB is responsible but as clear cut as it may seem it still offers the counter argument of ‘prove he took that’. Hence asking for tourist photos to corroborate his presence in the area after Carole Tramner’s statement, preferably on or after he received the phone call.

IMO when it comes to the actual evidence the defence won’t have a strong argument. Which is why I think they’ll slow it down, look for technicalities & anything the can sow doubt on. IMO inevitably the outcome will be the same, which is CB being convicted of MM’s murder & some or all of the other offences.

Just MO
 
frank-cole said:
SF ‘do you have material evidence’?

HCW ‘yes’

He’s also described it as material evidence (in German) via other interviews.

Whatever they have is non-forensic material evidence that proves MM is dead.

Their challenge is making sure there’s no room for the defence to cast any doubt between CB & the evidence.
For example; he had a photo of MM deceased on his device. Damning enough for the public to accept CB is responsible but as clear cut as it may seem it still offers the counter argument of ‘prove he took that’. Hence asking for tourist photos to corroborate his presence in the area after Carole Tramner’s statement, preferably on or after he received the phone call.

IMO when it comes to the actual evidence the defence won’t have a strong argument. Which is why I think they’ll slow it down, look for technicalities & anything the can sow doubt on. IMO inevitably the outcome will be the same, which is CB being convicted of MM’s murder & some or all of the other offences.

Just MO
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Is that true or wishful thinking ?
 
frank-cole said:
Good point. I think some may be hoping that this could result in the MM case being dropped. I doubt any prosecution would ever drop a case when there’s material evidence against a man for murdering a toddler. The same goes for the other cases IMO.
I doubt the new prosecution will question the validity of the evidence, however they may run the investigations slightly differently. IMO new arrests (for the 5 other cases) will follow relatively quickly should the case be moved to a different region. Fulscher can drag things out as much as he likes, but inevitably he will be faced with the evidence in a courtroom
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If they have strong evidence of a murder by a german national within their jurisdiction i believe they have to investigate it.

I wonder if the problem would more be that the Braunschweig office claimed to have a big team on this, but after 3 years appeared to be stuck. So would the Sachsens want to take on such a commitment when they don't have the sunk cost of it?

I agree the transfer of the existing cases ought to be more straightforward
 
frank-cole said:
SF ‘do you have material evidence’?

HCW ‘yes’

He’s also described it as material evidence (in German) via other interviews.

Whatever they have is non-forensic material evidence that proves MM is dead.

Their challenge is making sure there’s no room for the defence to cast any doubt between CB & the evidence.
For example; he had a photo of MM deceased on his device. Damning enough for the public to accept CB is responsible but as clear cut as it may seem it still offers the counter argument of ‘prove he took that’. Hence asking for tourist photos to corroborate his presence in the area after Carole Tramner’s statement, preferably on or after he received the phone call.

IMO when it comes to the actual evidence the defence won’t have a strong argument. Which is why I think they’ll slow it down, look for technicalities & anything the can sow doubt on. IMO inevitably the outcome will be the same, which is CB being convicted of MM’s murder & some or all of the other offences.

Just MO
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I don't want to think about the kind of people CB may have associated with - online or otherwise - and the material they may exchange. Luckily I don't have to think about it. But I can already think of problems with trying to use photos as evidence, and I'm not a top lawyer like FF. I'm not any kind of lawyer. FF will have lots of ammunition, if it is a photo that's being relied on. I know you only used that as a for example, and that may not be what HCW is relying on. But I remain unconvinced there is any such kind of evidence - if there was, in a case as high profile as this one, I can't see how it could have remained hidden for all this time.

I'm impressed by your faith in him, and respect it. I understand the wish to see a solution to MM's disappearance, of course. But it's judges the prosecutors have to convince, not the public. That's a completely different task imo I think if there are ever any charges re: MM once it gets to court the evidence HCW has so far been hinting at won't exist. It'll all be circumstantial (imo)
 
Lyall0814 said:
I don't want to think about the kind of people CB may have associated with - online or otherwise - and the material they may exchange. Luckily I don't have to think about it. But I can already think of problems with trying to use photos as evidence, and I'm not a top lawyer like FF. I'm not any kind of lawyer. FF will have lots of ammunition, if it is a photo that's being relied on. I know you only used that as a for example, and that may not be what HCW is relying on. But I remain unconvinced there is any such kind of evidence - if there was, in a case as high profile as this one, I can't see how it could have remained hidden for all this time.

I'm impressed by your faith in him, and respect it. I understand the wish to see a solution to MM's disappearance, of course. But it's judges the prosecutors have to convince, not the public. That's a completely different task imo I think if there are ever any charges re: MM once it gets to court the evidence HCW has so far been hinting at won't exist. It'll all be circumstantial (imo)
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I dont know how CB having a photo of a dead Madeleine would necessarily convince people that he was the murderer because as you say he mixed with people we wouldnt want to know and so he could argue he got it online etc and I thought at one point he said something like they have proof she is dead but not that he was behind it?
 
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