Madeleine's Favorite ...

[docwho3]

Bumping for Madeleine. Lets find her.

 

[gord]

Gord, the title of this thread is "Madeleine's Favorites" and so that's what we are discussing here. If you'd like to discuss how to find Madeleine or her abductor(s), you might try visiting other threads. I started one very much on the topic of finding Madeleine. It's called "Could this be used to find Madeleine?" Have you visited that one and contributed any thoughts?

not yet - but I will - It is difficult sometimes to stay 100% on topic as you tend to just go with the flow of the thread and respond where necessary

 

[Dr. Creepin]

Kate said, "There is a good Madeleine and there is a naughty Madeleine."

That makes her sound like a schizophrenic!

 

[Maryam]

Kate said, "There is a good Madeleine and there is a naughty Madeleine."

That makes her sound like a schizophrenic!

And who would say that about their disappeared child? Wouldn't you just talk about the good sides of your child when talking about her in the media?

My kids aren't always little angels either, but I would never mention that if I was being interviewed. All kids can be naughty sometimes, why would she say that? It's bizzare.

 

[SleuthMom]

Where did you get the idea that Kate stopped loving Madeleine? People show love in many different ways.

A friend of mine in Elementary School used to come with bruises on her arms and legs, her mother used to beat her up when she used to not complete her homework or did not wash her hands properly, but she told her all those times every time she did it "I do it, because I love you!" Yeah, people show love in so many different ways.

 

[Barnaby]

Kate said, "There is a good Madeleine and there is a naughty Madeleine."

That makes her sound like a schizophrenic!

Yea that was a disgusting comment. You know in a lot of cases no matter how horrible a person was, most people will find something good to say about them when they die. "Ah, sure he wasn't that bad" I have heard it often. It's human nature in most cases to regret thinking ill of the dead, people get all sentimental when paying their last respects not in all cases of course!
So surely how much more should a mother who has just lost her beloved daughter forget about the naughty & really only focus on the good times?

What child doesn't have a naughty side? Are the twins the first two perfect people ever to be born? Do they not have a naughty side? Most kids will do silly things, my kids were not perfect, my son would not go to bed early ever, I wouldn't here even say "He had a naughty side" & thank God he is still with me, not missing! He was just a normal child, if anyone expects to have a 100% perfect child then just don't have them, they truly do not exist! The perfect person has yet to be born except for the McCanns of course they do nothing wrong
If Madeleine was exceptionally naughty then I can see a clear reason why that would be, she was most probably craving attention from two callous parents that never loved her!

 

[SleuthMom]

If Madeleine was exceptionally naughty then I can see a clear reason why that would be, she was most probably craving attention from two callous parents that never loved her!

Or...she was a special needs child. I have a 7 years old son who has special needs, he was the only child for 6 years so he always got all the attention he could possible get and more...but because PART OF his special needs is constant attention, it continues up to this day and it's very draining. It really leaves you "drained" physically and mentally because no matter how much attention you give, in the end, it is never enough.

I wonder if Maddie had special needs, I had the feeling based on her mother's account that she did.

Having said that, I love him just the way he is, specially because I know his attention problem is NOT his fault and is UP TO ME, to deal with my frustrations and tiredness and be the best mother I could possible be. I see it as a blessing, despite the challenges.

 

[packerdog]

Kate said, "There is a good Madeleine and there is a naughty Madeleine."

That makes her sound like a schizophrenic!

I think you can say that about all children, sometimes they are good and sometimes they are naughty.

schizophrenic? Oh brother!

 

[dkitty]

Does she carry Cuddlecat in her coat pocket? Or clipped to her stethoscope, or what?

LOL ..

 

[teacherbees]

I think you can say that about all children, sometimes they are good and sometimes they are naughty.

schizophrenic? Oh brother!

I don't really think the Dr. was giving an actual diagnosis, Packerdog.

If I were going to build a case to Kate's undemonstrative and seemingly callous nature toward her child, I'd include this statement regarding "naughtiness". I mean really! How many moms with baby girls who had been abducted would make a statement like that??????

IF you could get me to talk at all through the heaving sobs at the mere thought that someone had taken my tiny little girl and was probably torturing and repeatedly raping her even as I spoke, I sure as heck would NOT be focusing on her "naughty" side.

Superlatives such as you've never heard would be coming out of my mouth. Because, let's face it, every child can be "naughty" but mothers are the ones who are most likely to gloss over the bad side and call up a thousand details to support claims that their child is the most wonderful little person ever to grace the planet.

Whether Kate had anything to do with her child's disappearance or not, she is definitely a person who can disassociate herself from trauma with incredible ability....or very, very cold.

And, truthfully, this is the part I don't understand about the Mccanns are Innocent camp. I am respectfully wondering if any of you really, really think that Kate's behaviors are normal, in the face of her little girl being taken? Does she not come across to you as unfeeling?

I don't know whether she's completely innocent or not. But, I'm a person of reasonable intelligence and fifty years time on this planet to take in impressions of how people react in certain circumstances. Based on that "resume", I can only come to the conclusion that Kate and Gerry are both "different" in their reactions and way of handling their daughter's disappearance.

 

[Texana]

Teacherbees, I agree.

I think that Kate had a difficult time understanding the temperament of Madeleine. I think she came into parenthood, like so many well-educated high achieving parents, with certain expectations and goals. Of course it would go well for them (just like their outstanding careers) and of course, their children would be bright, well-behaved, healthy and reasonably attractive. These are the people who read the parenting books, magazines, and articles and are usually convinced that if they do the right thing, their child will respond/act/be accordingly.

Sure, they had infertility issues, but they overcame that. However, I believe that Kate had a hard time adjusting to Madeleine's temperament. She also does not seem in touch with realistic child development or behaviors--for example, when she talks about how Madeleine adjusted to the twins' birth, she says at first it was perfect! Then in the next breath she talks about how Madeleine would literally scream for attention when Kate was trying to feed the twins.

Well, we all recognize that Madeleine is acting out. But why doesn't Kate see this? Is this because she has such a strong need for Madeleine to be perfect? (we worked so hard for this child, of course it's wonderful, wonderful, wonderful) or because she really just doesn't get how children act?

I see that same gap between the reality of child development and Kate's comments about how well the twins are adjusting to Madeleine's disappearance. She seems to see it as some kind of marvelous ability on their part, whereas they are really just acting like normal two year olds--all they know is the here and now, and it is of course the normal here-and-now, no matter how odd it may truly be.

But I also see the inability to accept the "whole" child when Kate refers to the "good Madeleine" and the "naughty Madeleine." I think that Kate struggled to understand why a child could be as strong-willed as Madeleine and act out. The "tower of strength" quote refers not to Madeleine being an emotional support for her family, but a very strong-willed child when it came to trying to get her way. This might very well have been frustrating for Kate, who as a very successful professional, might very well have always been the "good child" who succeeds at everything she tries and pleases every adult in sight easily at the same time. (Reminds me of my older daughter's AP English teacher last year, who used to lament loudly that she would have been ashamed, just ashamed, to turn in a late assignment when she was a student. She truly was frustrated by students who weren't motivated in the same way.)

Once upon a time, Kate and her husband might very well have left their children in the care of nannies full time. They would have deferred to Nanny's opinion about bedtimes or activities and the children would have grown up, quite probably, fairly well adjusted and cared for. Now, however, they are expected to be not only brilliant doctors but also "perfect mums" and dads. They can't bring along Nanny on vacations because it's a family vacation, so of course they want to be together as a family. They do really want to be good parents.

I think that Kate very much wanted children, but the reality of three under five was much more than she ever imagined. And as older parents, they had had plenty of time to imagine how their children would be, and of course, form opinions about that as well. (The "if I had children they would never..." line of thinking.)

At the heart of all this is a kind of denial, I believe. A denial that they were not perfect parents (because they've both always been perfect at whatever they tried to do) and a denial that they might have either put her in danger ("a mistake, if you can call it that..." "Naive, at worst.")

So my question is at this point: How much are they denying? IIf they cannot admit or recognize even the slightest bit of responsibility for leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone that night, even to the point of saying "Definitely a mistake in hindsight" not "If you can call it that" then to where does that denial stop?

 

[ThoughtFox]

I think that Kate very much wanted children, but the reality of three under five was much more than she ever imagined. And as older parents, they had had plenty of time to imagine how their children would be, and of course, form opinions about that as well. (The "if I had children they would never..." line of thinking.)

At the heart of all this is a kind of denial, I believe. A denial that they were not perfect parents (because they've both always been perfect at whatever they tried to do) and a denial that they might have either put her in danger ("a mistake, if you can call it that..." "Naive, at worst.")

So my question is at this point: How much are they denying? IIf they cannot admit or recognize even the slightest bit of responsibility for leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone that night, even to the point of saying "Definitely a mistake in hindsight" not "If you can call it that" then to where does that denial stop?

You said it better than I ever could - such a great post, Texana! :clap:

Superlatives such as you've never heard would be coming out of my mouth. Because, let's face it, every child can be "naughty" but mothers are the ones who are most likely to gloss over the bad side and call up a thousand details to support claims that their child is the most wonderful little person ever to grace the planet.

My kids were rowdy when they were little. My daughter was precocious and noisy, and liked to sing at the top of her lungs. She and her brother liked to do cartwheels across the living room before supper. All three of my kids liked to crawl under the table, and play hide and go seek all over the house. My older son cried every time he had to brush his teeth, and often would not stay in bed. My youngest was much more quiet, but he liked to bounce on the couch cushions and play sword fighting.

And yet, if I had lost any of them as toddlers, God forbid, I would have talked about how sweet they were, and how the youngest boy sucked his thumb and loved his blankey, and how my older son used to pick little flowers for me sometimes, and what books my daughter loved, and what made them laugh, and their first words, and funny things they did.

I really wanted to be a mother, but going from work to motherhood was not easy for me either. I thought I had to be supermom at first, and have a spotless house and a perfect baby. With my oldest, I thought something was wrong when she didn't follow the baby book guidelines. I was stressed out all the time.

Finally, my mother gave me the best advice - throw away the book and study your child, and don't worry if the dishes pile up. Bless you Mom!

I eventually became the most laid-back mother I know, because life is too short, and you have to accept that kids are not in control of their emotions, and they have to just pitch a fit now and then. And as I look back, I recall the fun we had, and not the times they were "naughty." They don't know they are being naughty - they are just being kids.

 

[Texana]

Thank you, Thoughtfox. Your mother was very wise!

I've typed that probably 10 times or more about Kate...and thought even more times about her. It might not be that significant, but it keeps coming to my attention, the way she doesn't seem to understand how children really are, the emphasis upon "perfect mum" and the denial of any responsibility whatsoever, even in the most normal understandable way.

 

[Barnaby]

Or...she was a special needs child. I have a 7 years old son who has special needs, he was the only child for 6 years so he always got all the attention he could possible get and more...but because PART OF his special needs is constant attention, it continues up to this day and it's very draining. It really leaves you "drained" physically and mentally because no matter how much attention you give, in the end, it is never enough.

I wonder if Maddie had special needs, I had the feeling based on her mother's account that she did.

Having said that, I love him just the way he is, specially because I know his attention problem is NOT his fault and is UP TO ME, to deal with my frustrations and tiredness and be the best mother I could possible be. I see it as a blessing, despite the challenges.

Bless you Sleuth, I have no doubt that you are a wonderful mother. I was a teacher of children with special needs, I know the strain but you always try to do your best for them.

I have always wondered was Madeleine a child with special needs partly because the coloboma can be associated with other problems & she was definitely small for her age which I have said over & over again they should have been emphasising for the media campaign to find her!

The McCanns have never commented on this in fact they have commented on little about her! Is it possible that in their "perfect" world that they were/are ashamed of having a less than perfect child? Like they went out of their way to make her but she just didn't come out right! maybe a case for euthanasia? harsh but not impossible! I wouldn't put anything past these b*******!

 

[SleuthMom]

Bless you Sleuth, I have no doubt that you are a wonderful mother. I was a teacher of children with special needs, I know the strain but you always try to do your best for them.

You keep trying and NEVER give up on them. Every night before going to bed, I lay down on my son's bed and we talk, particularly about his behavior (VERY strong-willed as Maddie)...people may think I am mad because I keep repeating myself over and over every night but I KNOW somehow, someday that will enter into his mind and he will understand. You never give up on your kids.

I have always wondered was Madeleine a child with special needs partly because the coloboma can be associated with other problems & she was definitely small for her age which I have said over & over again they should have been emphasising for the media campaign to find her!

Based on what I read, I really think she had special needs, a lot of parents are in total denial of this and they end up blaming the child when in fact is not their fault. Because I know how frustrating sometimes can be to deal with a child with special needs, I won't be surprised if someone gave a fatal blow to Madeleine and killed her. Specially if someone (Kate?) has been dealing with the kids by herself. I have a very supportive husband who takes my son out quite often for me to get breaks, otherwise I would go insane. If she got little or no help from Gerry, I won't be surprised in the least if she accidentally killed her.

 

[Barnaby]

You keep trying and NEVER give up on them. Every night before going to bed, I lay down on my son's bed and we talk, particularly about his behavior (VERY strong-willed as Maddie)...people may think I am mad because I keep repeating myself over and over every night but I KNOW somehow, someday that will enter into his mind and he will understand. You never give up on your kids.



Based on what I read, I really think she had special needs, a lot of parents are in total denial of this and they end up blaming the child when in fact is not their fault. Because I know how frustrating sometimes can be to deal with a child with special needs, I won't be surprised if someone gave a fatal blow to Madeleine and killed her. Specially if someone (Kate?) has been dealing with the kids by herself. I have a very supportive husband who takes my son out quite often for me to get breaks, otherwise I would go insane. If she got little or no help from Gerry, I won't be surprised in the least if she accidentally killed her.

ITA Sleuth, it is far from easy working with children with special needs full time. One needs help & breaks away. I am so glad you have good support from DH.
However, it is abhorrent to think that a parent would hit a child. If this did happen they added to their unforgivable crime one hundred fold by carrying on this disgusting charade!