Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #14

[time]

The way I'm seeing it (and I'm no flight expert), it's because satellites pick up signals in a circular fashion around them (see this map):



Pings ("handshakes") between the satellite and the plane establish that it is a certain distance traveling either northward or southward along an arc. Radar tracking (which is a different form of tracking) helps pinpoint which one of the arcs it's on (if radar is available).

The only radar we've had reported (IIRC) is the Malaysian military radar which last tracked this plane going NW towards the Andaman Islands. The Indonesian military radar did not pick up the plane. To my logic, it would seem, then, IF the plane traveling in a steadily receding ping route (longer pings) without change of direction as was established at the end of the last thread, that there is still cause to think the plane may have traveled on the northern arc route, as the plane's last documented direction (radar) was in a NW'ly direction. There has still been nothing to say it couldn't have, in other words, and certain info now to suggest it should have (ping data).

IMO (more in the theory thread), I believe the complete lack of radar data after passing through Malaysia military radar may be due to advanced radar-blocking abilities used by the hijackers.

(Personally, I think the 'debris' some satellite images are picking up down by Australia are just part of that part of the ocean's reputation for being the 'garbage basin' of the sea. I could be wrong, though, and my knowledge in this area is certainly limited.)

Nice theory and explanation... thank you, I agree on both the direction and the debris seen. Is the graphic on the left hand side from actual or hypothetical (to some degree) pings/radar?

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

I know it was mentioned that pressure could cause these batteries to explode, but obviously passengers have all sorts of laptops both in the cabin and in the cargo. Are the batteries being talked about here more dangerous, or is this about a remote possibility like an electrical or engine fire?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25733346

talks a bit about the risks.

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Aircraft_Fire_Risk_from_Batteries_Carried_by_Passengers

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

A former FBI boss says the focus should be on the crew of flight MH370 and dismisses fire and mechanical failure theories.

"If it was flying on automatic pilot it wouldn't be changing altitude, it wouldn’t be going left and right, making turns and dropping to 5,000 feet, you know somebody was flying that airplane."

http://news.sky.com/story/1230064/malaysia-plane-criminal-act-behind-mystery

I agree the focus should be on whoever was flying that plane (or directing the flight of that plane). I don't see how anyone can be sure it had to be just the original pilots doing the flying off-course, though. And even if it were, I just don't see any evidence yet to support the idea that the original pilots were voluntarily complicit. (In fact, even the Captain's simulator computer was today given a clean bill of health--"nothing suspicious" was found in the forensics. Not hard at all for me to believe, personally.)

 

[Holly G. Lightly]

Oh thank you. This is what I was trying to ask last night. Not good at getting the words together properly.

Seems something could have been going wrong with the system. Not anyone programming in, or turning off things. Could have been a short or any other number of things.

I doubt we will ever know about the directions being put in and transponder being turned off, even if the parts are found.

This is what I am thinking, too. I think the transponder system failed. In fact, I think everything failed, including the oxygen delivery system, or some other hypoxia event, as SeriouslySearching mentioned (which I think is genius, by the way).

 

[MsFacetious]

I do hope that they are searching away from the actual location where debris are seen on satellite.
Clearly they won't still be there... they need to be looking kilometers away from that area. lease:

In my researching plane crashes I am finding some AMAZING stories.
This was one of the most amazing emergency landings ever...
It was brought up again after the Miracle on the Hudson.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110

TACA Airline flight 110 - Nowhere To Land - YouTube

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Nice theory and explanation... thank you, I agree on both the direction and the debris seen. Is the graphic on the left hand side from actual or hypothetical (to some degree) pings/radar?

Thanks! As far as the left-hand graphic, I don't know if it's actual or hypothetical. But it makes the point, at least.

 

[CARIIS]

The media are confusing losing the transponder with the ability to contact ATC – totally two separate entities..

The themes are fire and-they may not have had time to say “mayday, mayday, and mayday! MH370 mayday fire”. How long does that utterance take!!

According to the media the transponder was turned off before the handoff. Clearly the crew was able, 6 minutes later, to communicate with ATC.

How does this chronology make sense to media? It’s inverted…………………….

 

[Leilei]

Taking down an entire plane for insurance money has been done before...

United Airlines Flight 629

United Airlines Flight 629 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Justice Story: Son plants bomb in mom’s suitcase, killing her and 43 others during flight

Jack Graham hated his mother, Daisie King, but was set to inherit a large part of her $150,000 estate upon her demise. Graham became proactive, planting the bomb in her baggage as she flew from Colorado to Oregon. But Graham got caught, meeting his own end in a gas chamber.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/jus...mom-luggage-kills-44-flight-article-1.1335372

I just read about this in my John Douglas book! Crazy case!

 

[Roselvr]

I agree the focus should be on whoever was flying that plane (or directing the flight of that plane). I don't see how anyone can be sure it had to be just the original pilots doing the flying off-course, though. And even if it were, I just don't see any evidence yet to support the idea that the original pilots were voluntarily complicit. (In fact, even the Captain's simulator computer was today given a clean bill of health--"nothing suspicious" was found in the forensics. Not hard at all for me to believe, personally.)

I feel they had to do what they did due to someone standing there. I think they turned before he said good night; I think the pilots were hoping someone would notice what was going on. I think they did what they could to stall taking the plane down before throwing it in the water.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The way the investigation was going BEFORE the debris in southern Indian Ocean redirected things:

Malaysia's leader says communications systems on Flight 370 were cut off by "deliberate action."

Malaysia's leader says communications systems on Flight 370 were cut off by "deliberate action." U.S. officials are investigating whether a third system, on the plane's lower deck, was also compromised. WSJ's Jason Bellini explains.

The investigation into the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 sharpened its focus on sabotage, according to aviation and industry officials, amid strong indications that one or more people on the plane deliberately changed its course and tried to mask its location.

Officials suspect two different systems were shut off after the plane took off last weekend, one shortly after the other, people familiar with the investigation said. About an hour into the flight, the plane's transponders stopped functioning, making it much more difficult for air-traffic control personnel to track or identify it via radar.

In the ensuing minutes, a second system sent a routine aircraft-monitoring message to a satellite indicating that someone made a manual change in the plane's direction, veering sharply to the west. Such a turn wouldn't have been part of the original authorized route programmed in the flight-management computer that controls the autopilot. Those system-monitoring messages are suspected to have been disabled shortly afterward, according to some of these people.

"Increasingly, it seems to be heading into the criminal arena," said Richard Healing, a former member of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board. The latest revelations about the investigation, he added, "indicate the emphasis is on determining if a hijacker or crew member diverted the plane." http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304185104579439403486098062

Expert Was Needed to Disable Malaysia Airlines Jet Systems
Detailed Knowledge Would Be Required
[Lost the link but believe this was also Wall St Journal article from the last paragraph.]

...If multiple communication systems aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 were manually disabled, as investigators increasingly suspect happened, it would have required detailed knowledge of the long-range Boeing Co. 777's inner workings.

The first loss of the jet's transponder, which communicates the jet's position, speed and call sign to air traffic control radar, would require disabling a circuit breaker above and behind an overhead panel. Pilots rarely, if ever, need to access the circuit breakers, which are reserved for maintenance personnel.

Pulling one specific circuit breaker, which is labeled, would render inoperative both of the 777's transponders, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal and bolstered by comments from aviation industry officials and those who have worked with the 777.

 

[21merc7]

Latest
19.30 Dr John Blaxland, a senior fellow from Australian National University, has told Chinese state news agency Xinhua that if the measures of the latest object are correct, it could be a wing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10710250/Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-live.html

 

[time]

Thanks! As far as the left-hand graphic, I don't know if it's actual or hypothetical. But it makes the point, at least.

Looked around, this may help explain how they came up with that flight path based on two Malaysian Military radar points (3 and 4 below) www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579955/US-officials-convinced-two-separate-communications-systems-Malaysian-jet-DELIBERATELY-shut-14-minutes-apart-emerges-aircraft-pinging-FIVE-hours-vanished-flying.html

 

[Holly G. Lightly]

The way the investigation was going BEFORE the debris in southern Indian Ocean redirected things:

It seems too have drastically changed direction since then, doesn't it?

Makes me think most of those in the know are feeling pretty certain that the plane ended up in the ocean. Especially when you consider the expense involved in the SAR mission.

Hmmm…

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Oh no...

This is a thought... Isn't it...

Bombers target locations where there are large gathering of people...

And the Malaysian Grand Prix is/will be an event with many people attending and participating...

And, as mentioned in the last thread, the Nuclear Security Summit is presently going on in the Netherlands (or due to start in 2 days?--conflicting info, sorry).

And then there is this (also mentioned in last thread):

About 140 cases of missing or unauthorised use of nuclear and radioactive material were reported to the U.N. atomic agency in 2013, highlighting the challenges facing world leaders at a nuclear security summit next week.

Any loss or theft of highly enriched uranium, plutonium or different types of radioactive sources is potentially serious as al Qaeda-style militants could try to use them to make a crude nuclear device or a so-called "dirty bomb", experts say.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/9857190/UN-Dirty-bomb-threat

 

[21merc7]

This link includes a news video, from AU, get to see the flight crews and aircraft

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-for-mh370-grows/story-e6frg6so-1226861987148

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

It seems too have drastically changed direction since then, doesn't it?

Makes me think most of those in the know are feeling pretty certain that the plane ended up in the ocean. Especially when you consider the expense involved in the SAR mission.

Hmmm…

That's one way of looking at it. Or...it could be that the Indian Ocean debris is a sudden red herring (intentional or incidental).

 

[time]

That's one way of looking at it. Or...it could be that the Indian Ocean debris is a sudden red herring (intentional or incidental).

Since large debris was reported (best thing and only thing they have to go on) maybe they felt they had to follow it. For all involved, think if they all said, nope, seems unlikely to us.

 

[The Village Idiot]

First of all......Pray for the 239 people



I Ponder these days ..................... WHY?

~ WHY do Automobiles have On-Star GPS Tracking device and Planes do not?

~ WHY can Professional company find my car faster this way than they can find a Plane?

~ WHY is it I can find my cell phone via GPS Tracking, but we can not find a Plane?

~ WHY is it that Planes are painted Silver or Grey? Why are they not painted Bright Red, Orange, yellow or some other color that stands out more?

~ WHY can't Planes be painted with High Luminous paint stripes to see easier in the dark, or under water? Green luminous ALGAE in the water can be seen under-water (and I might add) from the Sky?

~ WHY can tracking confetti be put into Farmer's Grain (so it is able to be traced if stolen) then found -- and a Plane can Not be? Why can't plane inside walls of a Plane have something similar to float on water if such a disaster? Be a DYE to color the water, or simple Buoy type of things (small) that will float if it hits the water and breaks apart. These could in inside plane walls

~ WHY can My CAT and DOG have a Micro-chip in them -- be found and returned?

~ WHY can MY car Keys have GPS on them, but a Plane does not have several GPS on it should it break up in a Tragedy?

~ WHY can we communicate with the *Rover on MARS* but can Not communicate with a Black Box to find it's location?

~ WHY don't Planes have Mirrors under them in case of another Plane can/does hide under it? This is called Shadowing, to go undetected. Is this not something that should be NOW considered?

~ WHY can't a Plane have a Satellite Dish on it? My friends home has one, their cabin, and so does their RV?

~ WHY do my keys, my car, and my Cell phone have tracking devices on it?

~ Also WHY can't anyone cell phone that was ON the plane not be able to see if it can be found via GPS via a cell phone that may have been on?

~ Why isn't the Black Box made to Float?

~ Why does the Black Box it is made to sink, have the capability then to release a tracking DYE from it -- once it comes off it Platform on the Plane?

~ Why doesn't the Black box have a Heat detecting device also in it?

It may cost $$$ to do some of these things, but it also costs $$ to search for it and the People too. Human Life does have a value.

Why, why, why?

Some of these may be far-fetched.....but I am trying to make a point in all this confusion of this Plane. Sometime it does not make any sense to me...but I am NOT a Geek to know all the answers either

We really need to update our thinking for Planes when things like this happen. What do you think??

This is NOT a Political debate on the things happening right now -- This POST is just for you to throw out ideas of what new ways (ideas) Planes might be able to be updated to help in something like this.

What ideas do you have??

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Since large debris was reported (best thing and only thing they have to go on) maybe they felt they had to follow it. For all involved, think if they all said, nope, seems unlikely to us.

I think you're probably right--there's so little to go on, they have to pay attention to almost anything that could possibly be related. It's an unfortunate loss of momentum, though, if it turns out to be unrelated.

 

[Elley Mae]

“The only way someone on the ground would know that you’d made changes to the flight management system is by studying the info broadcast by the ACARS,” he says. If the ACARS is shut off, air traffic control would not immediately know whether someone had programmed new instructions into the flight management system.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ht-370-highlights-flaws-in-aircraft-tracking/