Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #14

[revampz]

Thanks but the cargo doesn't even matter. It was the intent of the Captain. JMO

Righto...must have missed that inportant piece of information that the captain bought down the plane....unless our news are a bit slow in letting us know:facepalm:

While I too think that it was probably the captain, I am open to other options and not everyone on here thinks it was the captain and may be interested in other options!!!!

bit abrupt there mate.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

The media will slander someone unfairly, so I understand the desire to discard such reports without better confirmation, and I also understand how it looks like people avoid "the truth". At the same time, a "victim friendly forum" is an admirable idea, but obviously can suppress analysis of people who later turn out not to be victims. People are choosing to err on the side of caution - no victim-blaming as long as people might be victims. I agree sometimes this veers into overly defensive territory, but that's in response to inflammatory insinuations a lot of the time. Everything being given to us is portrayed with some bias, and I think the best thing to do is to give them the benefit of the doubt, as all these competing accusations cannot be true. That's not necessarily putting on rose-colored glasses - it's being smart. Jumping to conclusions isn't going to make a difference in this case - there's no "better safe than sorry" concerns. We have to keep all possibilities open to see if we can figure out the truth. A lot of the insinuations about the pilot are totally exaggerated, but that doesn't mean I believe he is innocent - I'm just smart enough to recognize the media is making a big deal out of nothing, and to wait for them to report on something that is actually a big deal.

May I ask where you are studying law?

 

[Nymeria]

Can you link to the source of the 4 metre thing, please?

Automatic hydrostatic release unit

A hydrostatic release unit or HRU is a pressure activated mechanism designed to automatically deploy when certain conditions are met. In the marine environment this occurs when submerged to a maximum depth of four meters. The pressure of the water against a diaphragm within the sealed casing causes a plastic pin to be cut thereby releasing the containment bracket casing, allowing the EPIRB to float free.
EPIRB hydrostatic release mechanism

Some common characteristics of HRUs are:

Water pressure sensitive at depths not to exceed four meters or less than two meters.



[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Locator_Transmitter"]Distress radiobeacon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


ETA- I would also like to add that just about every news station keeps saying "if more than 4 meters it won't be activated" but that is kind of confusing to me. It seems like it all depends on the bracket releasing it before 4 meters....if I am grasping it right. :dunno:

 

[lawstudent]

Don't you find it interesting that the plane flew or dropped altitude or went under the radar almost immediately after disappearing? 12,000 feet...As if hidden

It is my understanding that that is not confirmed.

I could be wrong - most of my recent posts have asked what is actually confirmed and by whom. I feel like people are conflating facts and reports of things that "may" have happened.

IF this is true, and the plane flew for hours under the radar, I would agree with you that it almost certainly rules out hypoxia.

But if this true, and the plane did not fly for hours (also, I am almost positive, UNCONFIRMED), it could have undergone a rapid decompression and plunged into the ocean at that point.

 

[Nymeria]

Does anyone else feel like this from all the information overload we are all trying to absorb?

 

[Isabelle]

hi guys this is what our news have said in the last hour...

apologies if you have already seen it and discussed.....know how quick you all are!!

anyhow...another bit of info we don't know if we are recieived the truth about!!!

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national...l-to-share-mh370-information-to-hinder-search

for those who don't want to read all of it, it is about the cargo and Malaysia refusing to say what was in it....

Someone does not want this plane found.

If I had a family member on that flight and heard all the untruths and refusals I a afraid I would go postal on Malaysia. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

The following is an opinion and observation in general. Not meant to be personal in any way.

Do you know the pilot and his family personally?
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but aren't you imagining the best case scenario? I say imagining because even someone's brother doesn't always know the other's marital health sometimes.
The investigation digs for discrepancies or problems in the situation until the weaknesses/ideas can be discredited and shot down via the investigators.
Authorities announced they'd be investigating the psychological profile along with other criteria of the pilots and crew members.

Where is the proof the family has a second home? How do people know the family left for the second home the day prior to the missing flight? How do we know the facts surrounding their marital status? Kids? I thought I read the pilot's children are grownups now. I know I read he's a grandfather of a two year old.

Our opinions are our opinions but they don't count as evidence. I agree to keep an open mind and not to assume the info represents the truth until either confirmed or officially ruled out.

First I've heard about the alleged call from a woman to the pilot. That's a new one for me (last I heard the pilot made a call from the cockpit prior to taking off). My observation is that instead of everyone 100 percent wanting to find out the facts about this particular call(possibly completely innocent), people on TV and elsewhere right off the bat state stuff like 'oh it's normal to make phone calls' and 'pilot's do that all the time'. So what? We need to know about this specific call because of the specific circumstances of a missing airplane containing 239 people who are unaccounted for. No one gives a hoot what other pilots normally do.

Why do people keep talking as if we're describing normal circumstances here?
A case on WS or one that captures the airwaves for two weeks and counting, isn't a normal situation. Why begin any discussion based on that premise?
Makes no sense to me. Never does.

Most, most respectfully Woe ~
We do this because of the thing that has been ingrained/pounded into us: innocent until proven guilty.

And so we don't repeat the Richard Jewell horror from the 1996 Summer Olympics.

I think everyone is trying to keep an open mind here ~ both ways. The questioning by proper authorities continues here but it seems right to me that the talking heads reign in their aggressiveness with their accusations until they have more facts.

 

[lawstudent]

May I ask where you are studying law?

I don't know how specific your question is - I would rather not name the school publicly. I am studying in the U.S. at a pretty well known law school.

 

[Brightbird]

I'm wondering if anyone has questioned the guys in the control tower? Is everything they do recorded? I just get a funny feeling that the Vietnamese are not telling the whole story. Could they have accidentally shot down the airliner? I know it sounds crazy but at this stage of the game anything is possible. This goes to show you that we don't have a perfect system and that there are flaws. I just hope they find something soon. There should at least be some debris by now.

This article hasn't got much but it goes someway to saying that both ATCs were trying to make contact.

http://m.theage.com.au/world/missin...e-flight-became-a-mystery-20140324-hvm5p.html

But in those early hours of March 8, pilots flying nearby heard an unusual crescendo of chatter on the radio frequencies used by radar control in Vietnam and Malaysia. Air traffic personnel in both countries were trying and failing to reach the plane.
‘‘Any stations in contact with Malaysian 370, please relay". Vietnamese and Malaysian controllers asked one aircraft after another to radio the jet. Pilots listened as one plane after another tried and heard only static.
‘‘Malaysian 370, this is Malaysian 88.’’
‘‘Malaysian 370, this is Malaysian 52.’’
People who heard the calls, describing them for the first time, said they were calm, even laconic. The pilots trying to reach the airliner had no reason to believe it had suffered anything more than an ordinary radio malfunction.

 

[lawstudent]

I'm wondering if anyone has questioned the guys in the control tower? Is everything they do recorded? I just get a funny feeling that the Vietnamese are not telling the whole story. Could they have accidentally shot down the airliner? I know it sounds crazy but at this stage of the game anything is possible. This goes to show you that we don't have a perfect system and that there are flaws. I just hope they find something soon. There should at least be some debris by now.

ATC can't shoot planes down - the Vietnam military could. ATC probably wouldn't know about that if it happened. I think everything is recorded.

 

[TracyLynnS]

It is my understanding that that is not confirmed.

I could be wrong - most of my recent posts have asked what is actually confirmed and by whom. I feel like people are conflating facts and reports of things that "may" have happened.

RSBM

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I tried to help answer your questions about "who's who". Was that the kind of information you're looking for regarding who is making statements to the press and who's confirming that info?

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-a...l-stolen-number-hours-before-take-off-1441438

Did y'all see this one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ing-malaysia-airlines-plane-article-1.1730211

That really puts a punch into the terrorist theory!! :scared:

 

[Momoffourboys]

The media will slander someone unfairly, so I understand the desire to discard such reports without better confirmation, and I also understand how it looks like people avoid "the truth". At the same time, a "victim friendly forum" is an admirable idea, but obviously can suppress analysis of people who later turn out not to be victims. People are choosing to err on the side of caution - no victim-blaming as long as people might be victims. I agree sometimes this veers into overly defensive territory, but that's in response to inflammatory insinuations a lot of the time. Everything being given to us is portrayed with some bias, and I think the best thing to do is to give them the benefit of the doubt, as all these competing accusations cannot be true. That's not necessarily putting on rose-colored glasses - it's being smart. Jumping to conclusions isn't going to make a difference in this case - there's no "better safe than sorry" concerns. We have to keep all possibilities open to see if we can figure out the truth. A lot of the insinuations about the pilot are totally exaggerated, but that doesn't mean I believe he is innocent - I'm just smart enough to recognize the media is making a big deal out of nothing, and to wait for them to report on something that is actually a big deal.

Right. Nothing can be ruled out with minimal facts that change daily. :moo:

 

[lawstudent]

Most, most respectfully Woe ~
We do this because of the thing that has been ingrained/pounded into us: innocent until proven guilty.

And so we don't repeat the Richard Jewell horror from the 1996 Summer Olympics.

I think everyone is trying to keep an open mind here ~ both ways. The questioning by proper authorities continues here but it seems right to me that the talking heads reign in their aggressiveness with their accusations until they have more facts.

Good post - I know that innocent until proven guilty can sometimes seem like a ridiculous, weak way to go about things, like it's something the legal system came up with to work against the public.

But if you look at times and places where the alternative system was used, you get some very scary results. In the modern U.S., people are rarely falsely convicted. But that's because we have so many safeguards in place from when it used to happen. And when we're not talking about a trial but rather speculating on a news story, the potential to be wrong is astronomical and can be very hurtful to certain people. Having an in-depth discussion both ways is crucial. I just hate to see anyone blamed wrongly, and also to see anyone held above suspicion.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Righto...must have missed that inportant piece of information that the captain bought down the plane....unless our news are a bit slow in letting us know:facepalm:

While I too think that it was probably the captain, I am open to other options and not everyone on here thinks it was the captain and may be interested in other options!!!!

bit abrupt there mate.

Abrupt? Who Me? Is there any other way to be?! Study the Captain's history

 

[Tiepos]

Automatic hydrostatic release unit

A hydrostatic release unit or HRU is a pressure activated mechanism designed to automatically deploy when certain conditions are met. In the marine environment this occurs when submerged to a maximum depth of four meters. The pressure of the water against a diaphragm within the sealed casing causes a plastic pin to be cut thereby releasing the containment bracket casing, allowing the EPIRB to float free.
EPIRB hydrostatic release mechanism

Some common characteristics of HRUs are:

Water pressure sensitive at depths not to exceed four meters or less than two meters.



Distress radiobeacon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


ETA- I would also like to add that just about every news station keeps saying "if more than 4 meters it won't be activated" but that is kind of confusing to me. It seems like it all depends on the bracket releasing it before 4 meters….if I am grasping it right. :dunno:

I read that page too, but I interpret it as saying that the beacon will activate and release at a depth of not less than 2 metres, and not more than 4 metres.

Meaning that it will activate and detach before the craft sinks below 4 metres.

I couldn’t decipher whether that only applies to beacons on marine craft, or also to those on commercial aircraft.


My Googling adventure led me to believe that should the beacon have detached and floated, it may have been able to send an immediate satellite signal, which would have been received within (I think) 45 minutes?

If it didn’t detach and float, it wouldn’t have been able to send a satellite signal at all, but should still be able to send some other sort of signal, which can actually travel a fair distance vertically, but which unfortunately requires the searchers to very close to over top of the wreck in order to pick it up.

 

[lawstudent]

This is the info I have so far. Anyone who wants to add to this short list or correct any errors I've made, please do so.

---

Malaysian Prime Minister - Najib Razak

CEO of the airline - Ahmad Jauhari Yahya (I think this is the man who said there was no dangerous cargo on board, just fruit. Then days later had to admit there was a cargo of lithium ion batteries.)

Acting Transportation Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein (frequently called Hishammuddin Hussein or just Hishammuddin in news reports)

Malaysia's official news agency is Bernama

Inspector General of the Royal Malaysian Police force - Khalid Abu Bakar

I missed this - thank you so much! Thanks for directing me to it. Is there a way to find out when people quote your posts?

I would put a reasonable amount of trust into the Prime Minister's statements, as I imagine he's somewhat involved in the investigation. Not sure if he himself is trustworthy, but I could at least believe he has access to good info. The rest of them could have very little knowledge and be giving misleading info based on what they're overhearing within the administration. Especially when it comes to the official news agency. I doubt Malaysian police could be all that involved - maybe the Transportation Minister, but probably not once it becomes an international issue. I'm sure they know some things, but when it comes to how to interpret certain data, I don't know that I'd put much stock in what they say. Not saying they're lying - just that they are hearing things probably filtered through many people.

When I closely followed the Boston Marathon Bombing investigation, it was pretty clear that the level of understanding was all over the place. They had officials announcing he was dead in the boat and then all of a sudden they have him in custody. Plus you had those people online saying it was that missing Brown student - that's the danger in not giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Soulmagent]

Just change Bermuda Triangle in this story to southern Indian Ocean.


http://scoobydoo.wikia.com/wiki/A_Creepy_Tangle_in_the_Bermuda_Triangle

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

That really puts a punch into the terrorist theory!! :scared:

Yes, and I am smarter than I look.....

 

[time]

I missed this - thank you so much! Thanks for directing me to it. Is there a way to find out when people quote your posts?

I would put a reasonable amount of trust into the Prime Minister's statements, as I imagine he's somewhat involved in the investigation. Not sure if he himself is trustworthy, but I could at least believe he has access to good info. The rest of them could have very little knowledge and be giving misleading info based on what they're overhearing within the administration. Especially when it comes to the official news agency. I doubt Malaysian police could be all that involved - maybe the Transportation Minister, but probably not once it becomes an international issue. I'm sure they know some things, but when it comes to how to interpret certain data, I don't know that I'd put much stock in what they say. Not saying they're lying - just that they are hearing things probably filtered through many people.

When I closely followed the Boston Marathon Bombing investigation, it was pretty clear that the level of understanding was all over the place. They had officials announcing he was dead in the boat and then all of a sudden they have him in custody. Plus you had those people online saying it was that missing Brown student - that's the danger in not giving the benefit of the doubt.

Trustworthy? I think not.