Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #8

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No one knows for a fact the pilot stole this jet and held anyone hostage. His family is putting out information about his personality and values, but we have no way to know if it truly represents his character.

By the way, did anyone ever conclude the person/pilot spoke the last known words from the jet in English?

I did not say the pilot is responsible for what has happened. I said that I would not call a pilot who stole a plane and took hostages could be called merciful.

The comment I replied to stated the pilot seemed merciful and may be keeping hostages alive somewhere.


I am aware his family and friends are putting out information about his personality, I have posted links to this effect myself. That doesn't mean we know much about the depth of his character. We just know the image people who knew him want us to at this point.
The same applies to all the passengers of course, we mainly know about them through the accounts of their family and friends who are concerned for them.
 
Thank you softail for the links to news and timeline threads! Didn't know they were there.

I don't know how to capture articles, but if any history buff is around, it is a good idea to do so.

Some articles change within an hour, but a lot will not be clickable working links soon.

Just suggesting, and I know I am not going to be able to. (I keep thinking about how Amandtowreckenwith _think I spelled that right- does it, or A Candy Rose.)

:blowkiss:
 
Copying my own post over from old thread so I can add additional info.

Some of the initial reporting on the sharp climb then descent may not have been exactly correct. Read this carefully:

"The New York Times, quoting American officials and others close to the investigation, said radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appeared to show the airliner climbing to 45,000ft, higher than a Boeing 777's approved limit, soon after its disappearance from civilian radar, then making a sharp turn to the west. The radar tracking then shows the plane descending unevenly to 23,000ft, below normal cruising levels, before climbing again and flying north-west towards the Indian Ocean."

IF this information is correct, there was no 40,000ft. drop. The plane climbed to 45,000ft. - higher than approved limit, but plane obviously capable of this. The plane then apparently made the turn to the west at this altitude. Then it descended - unevenly - meaning what? It did not plummet down. It came down in steps?

From 45,000 down to 23,000 ft. is a drop of 22,000 ft. - not 40,000."
-----------------------
Here is the original article in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?ref=world&_r=0

Interesting additional information. First, there are two sources of information reported within the article. First is the radar information from the Malaysian military. This shows the climb to 45,000ft., the turn, then:

"The radar track, which the Malaysian government has not released but says it has provided to the United States and China, showed that the plane then descended unevenly to 23,000 feet, below normal cruising levels, as it approached the densely populated island of Penang.

There, officials believe, the plane turned from a southwest-bound course, climbed to a higher altitude and flew northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean."

So what this is saying is that someone brought this plane down to a below-normal flying level as it approached Penang. The plane also executed a turn here. Penang is where the military radar station that failed to pick up this plane is located!


NOW comes the portion with the 40,000ft. drop. Different source of information, this came from the satellite:

"Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane’s Rolls-Royce engines that showed it descended 40,000 feet in the span of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation. But investigators do not believe the readings are accurate because the aircraft would most likely have taken longer to fall such a distance.

“A lot of stock cannot be put in the altitude data” sent from the engines, one official said. “A lot of this doesn’t make sense.”


Why would the pilot of a "highjacked" plane descend from 45,000ft. down to 23,000ft. at the very time he was coming near to a known radar installation? Did he WANT the radar to pick him up?
 
Yes. But let's not even go there... It's so far into the realms of conspiracy land that it's crazy town...
Not crazy town. Heard last night they said the route could have been pre-programmed before the flight even took off.
 
From NYT March 14:
Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane’s Rolls-Royce engines that showed it descended 40,000 feet in the span of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation. But investigators do not believe the readings are accurate because the aircraft would most likely have taken longer to fall such a distance.

“A lot of stock cannot be put in the altitude data” sent from the engines, one official said. “A lot of this doesn’t make sense.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?_r=0

Responding to post in last thread about data integrity. This is not new news.
 
IIRC, it was Mary Schiavo who said she was certain that Malaysian officials would have done this (verified the voice). She said there is very valid, reliable technology for pilot voice identification.

But of course, we don't know for sure what they determined, it's only by inference since they're now focused on the cockpit.

I don't know what makes Ms. Schaivo think they've already verified the voice....with the way the Malaysians are operating, it could be late April before they get around to it.

I agree with those you say the "All right, good night" has no real significance. Of course after the fact we know that it was said just before the transponder was turned off and maybe not by either of the pilots, but on an ordinary flight I think it's not unusual at all.
 
Not crazy town. Heard last night they said the route could have been pre-programmed before the flight even took off.

Agreed. Through the Federal Criminal Cases I see at work, anything that is digital is far from safe. It can be hacked and manipulated, it can be tapped into and listened to, for very long periods on either count, and no one is the wiser. Unless an incident requires years worth of research. Planes are not excluded.
 
Is it possible that the whole deviation, change in altitude etc was preprogrammed or remotely operated, beyond the control of the pilots?

I believed it was "yes" on the previous thread. :seeya:
 
Malaysia's national police chief, Inspector-General Khalid Abu Bakar, identified one of the passengers as 19-year-old Pouria Nourmohammadi Mehrdad. ~Snip~ the second man was also an Iranian, Delavar Seyed Mohammedreza.

Updated March 11, 2014 8:58 p.m. ET

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia—Two passengers who boarded missing Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU +2.13% Flight 370 with stolen passports, stirring speculation over terrorism, were unlikely to have any militant links, law-enforcement officials said.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702303795904579432481620765524.html

This article was written several days ago. We don't know what, if anything, has come out of inquiries about the two men since that time. However, when our Rep. Peter King has reservations about them knowing he is privy to much information being he is chairman of the House Sub-Committee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence and a former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security then we should listen.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ysia-probe-into-missing-plane-wants-more-fbi/

I, personally, think there is next to no chance that the Iranian who confirmed he was permanently emigrating from Iran on facebook and whose mother called LE as soon as she heard the plane was missing is a terrorist.
 
Trying to quote from the last thread.

Originally Posted by lawstudent
Haven't they since said the altitude data was misleading because it showed a drop that couldn't have happened in the time frame indicated?
Correct. The data showed a 40k ft drop within a minute. Since that's physically impossible* if the plane continued flying (which pings show it did), the quality of the data is suspect. It was also said that distance from the radar source affects accuracy.

* the plane would have broken apart

Hmm. Interesting. I wonder, then, why the original information wasn't refuted immediately, and why MSM has continued to report it.
 
Yes. But let's not even go there... It's so far into the realms of conspiracy land that it's crazy town...

Really? I don't find it such a leap. And if looked at from the point of view of destabilising local and/or global security (as in 9/11), it's quite the achievement. If it is possible, then it should be considered...I presume the experts are looking at this? have examined access to the plane via engineers, servicing and updating of flight software (however that works)...etc...
 
What do you think of this idea? Definitely throws a different light on the whole incident, Imo:

A former intelligence officer with the CIA says the disappearance of Malaysian flight MH370 has been more skilfully executed than the 9/11 attack.

There's speculation that the plane might have landed somewhere.

Mike Scheuer told Newstalk ZB's Rachel Smalley it appears to be even more precise than 9/11.

"It's not evident that it was a suicide mission. Perhaps they have other uses for the plane if it's a terrorism attack.

"Perhaps they're going to try bargain with the West for the release of some al-Qaeda people in return for releasing the passengers who were on the plane.''

He says if it was an act of terrorism, there could be a rogue plane out there.

"Once their plane is down somewhere you can repaint it, you can put a different number on the fuselage, and if you replace some of the equipment it won't give off the identifying signal that it would give off normally.

"And then you have kind of a wild card aircraft out there.''

Aviation expert Stephen Ganyard says the disappearance of the Malaysian Airline flight must have been planned, by people who knew exactly what they were doing.

"This had to have been a trained pilot, somebody had to know what they were doing.

"All these things occurred at the hand off between Malaysian and Vietnamese air traffic controllers.

"They knew that it was this dead zone in there, they knew that they had some time.''

Source: www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11220825
 
Has Malaysia released a list or anything concerning what was on the plane? I have been wondering and heard people mention on the news it may have carried cargo besides just luggage and the passengers belongings, but I wasn't sure if that was just speculation or not.
 
Yes. But let's not even go there... It's so far into the realms of conspiracy land that it's crazy town...

BBM ~ So, it is possible? ;) I did read somewhere that a cell phone can do this? :scared: Unbelievable.
 
8 days, 8 threads, 8000 posts (ish)

Who'd have thought we'd still be here now. Madness.
 
Really? I don't find it such a leap. And if looked at from the point of view of destabilising local and/or global security (as in 9/11), it's quite the achievement. If it is possible, then it should be considered...I presume the experts are looking at this? have examined access to the plane via engineers, servicing and updating of flight software (however that works)...etc...

The plane isn't connected to anything via a network, though, is it? Obviously it has radio and GPS connections, but can that be hacked for purposes of control? If we did as some people wanted and made a lot of the controls beyond the pilot's reach and under the control of authorities (transponder etc.), then we would open ourselves up to such a thing, but is that true now?
 
I'm having a difficult time accepting that someone who is, by accounts, outraged about the unfair treatment of the opposition party's leader would harm or kill over 200 innocent people in protest. I just doesn't jive. However I'm also not feeling like this is terrorism. I guess I don't know what I think and just felt the need to share that lack of thought with the rest of you.
 
Question about satellite pings:
Does anyone know whether more than 1 satellite could have registered those pings from the plane? I saw something today (don't have a link sorry) that Malaysia has requested satellite data from other countries. If one of those other satellites recorded the final ping they could definitely pinpoint the location of the plane when that occurred.

I also find it interesting that they're switching to primarily land-based searching. Even though it's hard to believe, I'm convinced this plane landed somewhere. I think someone stated here also that the last ping could have come while the plane was grounded (if it was still powered).

If it didn't land then I think it was shot down (I'm speculating somewhere over or near China).

All JMO.
 
Copying my own post over from old thread so I can add additional info.

Some of the initial reporting on the sharp climb then descent may not have been exactly correct. Read this carefully:

<resp. snipped>
-----------------------
Here is the original article in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?ref=world&_r=0

Interesting additional information. First, there are two sources of information reported within the article. First is the radar information from the Malaysian military. This shows the climb to 45,000ft., the turn, then:

"The radar track, which the Malaysian government has not released but says it has provided to the United States and China, showed that the plane then descended unevenly to 23,000 feet, below normal cruising levels, as it approached the densely populated island of Penang.

There, officials believe, the plane turned from a southwest-bound course, climbed to a higher altitude and flew northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean."

So what this is saying is that someone brought this plane down to a below-normal flying level as it approached Penang. The plane also executed a turn here. Penang is where the military radar station that failed to pick up this plane is located!


NOW comes the portion with the 40,000ft. drop. Different source of information, this came from the satellite:

"Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane&#8217;s Rolls-Royce engines that showed it descended 40,000 feet in the span of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation. But investigators do not believe the readings are accurate because the aircraft would most likely have taken longer to fall such a distance.

&#8220;A lot of stock cannot be put in the altitude data&#8221; sent from the engines, one official said. &#8220;A lot of this doesn&#8217;t make sense.&#8221;


Why would the pilot of a "highjacked" plane descend from 45,000ft. down to 23,000ft. at the very time he was coming near to a known radar installation? Did he WANT the radar to pick him up?

BBM ~ Since MH370 went up 45000, then dropped to 23000, I would confidently say that MH370 did not want to be picked up by radar and clearly has succeeded as we are 7 days in.

Again... "inside job" thoughts come to mind, and not the Captain/FO. :twocents:
 
Has Malaysia released a list or anything concerning what was on the plane? I have been wondering and heard people mention on the news it may have carried cargo besides just luggage and the passengers belongings, but I wasn't sure if that was just speculation or not.

No, nothing official has been released.
Can passenger jets carry hazardous material or is that only to be carried on cargo planes? And I would think that IF there were any hazardous materials on board, it would have been detected at security.

But wait...the cargo x-ray machine was down for MH370. So nothing would have been detected anyways.
 
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