Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[newone]

I find this whole incident just nauseating.....bottom line is that families are suffering and nations are posturing ... Enough already.

 

[Lyra500]

forgive me: but what is the sudden interest???

they didn't seem to have the same level of interest in MH370 .... I am very very aware of the need of proper rest within 24 hours in Muslim religion but this latest ''protest'' from Malaysia is ''lame''((MOO))


MAL is self serving and fake (MOO)

I am not Malaysian, but I am afraid I find this post both disrespectful and insulting.

Firstly, MAL and the Malaysian authorities are not one and the same thing.

Secondly, people keep speaking about MH370 as if they think Malaysia knows where it is really and is just keeping it a secret to be spiteful. I feel that is illogical. Everyone including the Malaysians spent a great deal of time and effort trying to find that 'plane.

The protest is not lame . There are 44 Malaysian nationals lying decomposing in fields somewhere in Ukraine and the 'plane was on its way to Malaysia - why on earth wouldn't their government state that they were concerned about the total failure to treat all the passengers with respect and expedite the recovery exercise? Surely it would be remiss of them not to do so.

Finally, to bring religion into it seems pretty out of order in my view - they were not just speaking about the Malaysian passengers (not all of whom were necessarily Muslim anyway) and I very much doubt that any of the other nationalities would prefer to have their loved ones returned to them after rotting in a field for several days, rather than respectfully rescued and put in cold storage in line with good post mortem practice. :moo:

 

[newone]

I am not Malaysian, but I am afraid I find this post both disrespectful and insulting.

Firstly, MAL and the Malaysian authorities are not one and the same thing.

Secondly, people keep speaking about MH370 as if they think Malaysia knows where it is really and is just keeping it a secret to be spiteful. I feel that is illogical. Everyone including the Malaysians spent a great deal of time and effort trying to find that 'plane.

The protest is not lame . There are 44 Malaysian nationals lying decomposing in fields somewhere in Ukraine and the 'plane was on its way to Malaysia - why on earth wouldn't their government state that they were concerned about the total failure to treat all the passengers with respect and expedite the recovery exercise? Surely it would be remiss of them not to do so.

Finally, to bring religion into it seems pretty out of order in my view - they were not just speaking about the Malaysian passengers (not all of whom were necessarily Muslim anyway) and I very much doubt that any of the other nationalities would prefer to have their loved ones returned to them after rotting in a field for several days, rather than respectfully rescued and put in cold storage in line with good post mortem practice. :moo:

I respect that there are good reasons to have people returned to their families post haste for their final inerrment.

I find it also bloody hypocritical of MAL to make comment about MH 17 when their malfeasance has not helped families with MH 370 --- capaeche

 

[Elley Mae]

I am not Malaysian, but I am afraid I find this post both disrespectful and insulting.

Firstly, MAL and the Malaysian authorities are not one and the same thing.

Secondly, people keep speaking about MH370 as if they think Malaysia knows where it is really and is just keeping it a secret to be spiteful. I feel that is illogical. Everyone including the Malaysians spent a great deal of time and effort trying to find that 'plane.

The protest is not lame . There are 44 Malaysian nationals lying decomposing in fields somewhere in Ukraine and the 'plane was on its way to Malaysia - why on earth wouldn't their government state that they were concerned about the total failure to treat all the passengers with respect and expedite the recovery exercise? Surely it would be remiss of them not to do so.

Finally, to bring religion into it seems pretty out of order in my view - they were not just speaking about the Malaysian passengers (not all of whom were necessarily Muslim anyway) and I very much doubt that any of the other nationalities would prefer to have their loved ones returned to them after rotting in a field for several days, rather than respectfully rescued and put in cold storage in line with good post mortem practice. :moo:

Malaysia owns MAL


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines
Parent company Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad (Government Holding Company

 

[Lyra500]

Malaysia owns MAL


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines
Parent company Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad (Government Holding Company

I am well aware of that - that does not mean they are one and the same thing.

The quote I was responding to started with information about what the Malaysian Authorities had said in a statement and finished by stating that MAL were self-serving. It read as if The Malaysian government and MAL were being rolled into one and the statement from the government was self-serving. I didn't think that was fair.

 

[zwiebel]

'A spokesman for Ukraine’s Security Council said today the black boxes belonging to the Malaysian airliner had not been handed over to Kiev and he had no information about them.

Andriy Lysenko told a news conference: "We have no information on the black boxes. Not one of them has been handed over to the Ukrainian side." '

Live updates here:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/live-malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-3882761#ixzz37uUZ5ht4

Statement from two days ago:
12:52: BBC Monitoring "We are not going to take the crashed Boeing's flight recorders" - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

 

[Elley Mae]

A report by the Daily Mail showed the SA-11 launcher used in the attack missing two of its four missiles. A senior U.S. defense official confirmed the newspaper's report.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...er-used-to-down-jet-likely-back-in-russia-us/

"This is a problem — a very serious problem," Abbott said. "Australia takes a very dim view of countries which facilitate the killing of Australians. The idea that Russia can wash its hands of responsibility because this happened in Ukrainian airspace just does not stand up to serious scrutiny. We all know what's happening in the Ukraine."

I so agree with what Mr. Abbott said. I wish others could stand so tall. A united front with people like him is what it will take to topple people like putin. jmo idk

 

[newone]

I am well aware of that - that does not mean they are one and the same thing.

The quote I was responding to started with information about what the Malaysian Authorities had said in a statement and finished by stating that MAL were self-serving. It read as if The Malaysian government and MAL were being rolled into one and the statement from the government was self-serving. I didn't think that was fair.

what's not fair is MH370 not being resolved period dot the fact that the Malaysian Government even has the temerity to comment on MH17 is insulting

 

[Brightbird]

I think Abbott is the first one. Obama had some strong words today too. I wouldn't be surprised if David Cameron has strong words soon as well as Angela Merkel and even Shinzo Abe might come out with words.

Now that Japan has changed it's military rules and can go after other countries that pose a threat this could be the first test of that power through the bully pulpit. JMO

BTW, here's an article on Japan's recent change in foreign policy; http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/02/world/asia/japan-moves-to-permit-greater-use-of-its-military.html

And it concerns me that Abbott was the first one. Admittedly, I'm a numbnut when it comes to understanding political machinations but it is not typical of Australia to come out with such accusatory words before the world's big players. That makes me curious to say the least. I certainly hope it doesn't get to a point that Japan feels it needs to be involved.

 

[ZaZara]

Flight #MH17 was a combined flight from Malaysian Airlines and KLM
The combined flightnumber is #MH17 #KL4103

KLM, the Dutch Airliner, or KLM- Air France, has disappeared from the news about the crash almost entirely.

KLM website:

It is with great regret that KLM has learnt about the accident with flight MH17, codeshare KL4103, of Malaysia Airlines from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

 

[newone]

And it concerns me that Abbott was the first one. Admittedly, I'm a numbnut when it comes to understanding political machinations but it is not typical of Australia to come out with such accusatory words before the world's big players. That makes me curious to say the least. I certainly hope it doesn't get to a point that Japan feels it needs to be involved.

I share your concern: there are sensible nations that maintain a steady hand on the tiller Australia, Japan, Canada etc. and I don't want to see reactionary aka knee jerk reactions here

 

[Lyra500]

Well, what a HUGE surprise. The black boxes have "gone missing" according to some rebel leader guy who is actually a resident of Russia.

Just heard this on BBC News 24.

From the web:http://www.necn.com/07/18/14/Pro-Russia-rebel-leader-No-black-boxes-f/landing.html?blockID=869342

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) - A pro-Russia rebel leader says no black boxes have been found in the scattered wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines plane that was shot down over eastern Ukraine, conflicting with a statement made by an aide to a rebel military leader.

Separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai says "no black boxes have been found ... We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened."

Earlier Friday, an aide to rebel military leader Igor Girkin, a Russian better known by his assumed name Strelkov, said authorities had recovered eight out of 12 recording devices

In a way, I think the really concerning thing about this is not that the black boxes have gone missing (I am really not convinced that they will bring anything unexpected or new - I suspect everything just stopped when the missile hit) but the confirmation of how unlikely we are to get a trustworthy investigation whilst these people maintain control of the crash site. Not a surprise really, but the fact that they do not even seem minded to attempt to do things properly is deeply depressing.

I think more concerning from the point of view of being able to reconstruct what happened is the news that rebels are busily carting off parts of the fuselage.

Bodies are also being removed. One would hope that the pathology services in the rebel held area are up to the task, but somehow I don't feel overly confident about that. Also, whilst a proper investigation would seek to find the truth, this all appears designed to obscure it.

It just piles more distress on the families of the victims.

 

[Steely Dan]

Well, what a HUGE surprise. The black boxes have "gone missing" according to some rebel leader guy who is actually a resident of Russia.

Just heard this on BBC News 24.

Wow! I'm underwhelmed with surprise.

 

[newone]

Wow! I'm underwhelmed with surprise.

ditto

 

[drsleuth]

I' m guessing you are Aussie....and truthfully I respect the profile that Australians have worldwide. This is not the time for ANY world leader to posturing politically but rather a humanitarian approach would better serve the victims of this tragedy. ((JMHO)) love Australians by the way

Yep. I feel that us Aussies are sooooooo lucky to live here. Just don't need our PM shooting of his mouth....

 

[newone]

I am well aware of that - that does not mean they are one and the same thing.

The quote I was responding to started with information about what the Malaysian Authorities had said in a statement and finished by stating that MAL were self-serving. It read as if The Malaysian government and MAL were being rolled into one and the stby atement from the government was self-serving. I didn't think that was fair.

comes down to the same thing wouldn't you agree
we have totally dissed the MH 370
by emphasizing the need to honor the MH17

 

[Summerfun]

This should never be posted. Only the family members should be privy to this. I could not link the post.
But the names of all the people who have died in this horrible tragedy.
Should never be posted.

 

[newone]

Yep. I feel that us Aussies are sooooooo lucky to live here. Just don't need our PM shooting of his mouth....

loose cannons are scary

 

[gia2]

This should never be posted. Only the family members should be privy to this.

What is it that you are refering to?

 

[Lyra500]

comes down to the same thing wouldn't you agree
we have totally dissed the MH 370
by emphasizing the need to honor the MH17

No I am afraid I don't. I do not see how saying that the bodies in a plane crash with a known site should not be left to decompose and be photographed and beamed around the world is in some way disrespectful to the victims of a flight which was tragically lost (and for which the search is ongoing). That just seems totally illogical to me.

And no - a national government and a national airline are not the same thing in my view.