Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

[tiredblondy]

Our Moderators here at Websleuths are the BEST!!!!

:tyou::yourock::blowkiss:




(I'm sure I'm about one post away from a warning, does that help???)

 

[sorrell skye]

This information has been posted here before, but I'll post it again.

She gave a few rescue breaths and yelled for X who then called 9-1-1 at 1010 hours. Officer Erhard was the first to arrive to the scene at 1012 hours and gave dispatch the correct address once he made contact with X. He then alerted the fire department personnel.


According to the AR (page 2), RZ had reportedly attempted to administer CPR (rescue breaths) to MS while awaiting the arrival of paramedics.
Nowhere in this description of events does it mention that Officer Erhard administered CPR to MS while awaiting the arrival of paramedics. I have to ask: why not? CPR is an exhausting activity & cannot be carried out effectively by one individual for more than a few minutes.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

Continuing on page 2 of the AR:

Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) was reportedly started by Max's father's girlfriend. Upon paramedic's arrival, CPR was continued and cardiotonic medications were administered.

It was noted in the AR that RZ was reported to have administered some sort of CPR, but nowhere does it mention that Officer Erhard provided CPR to Maxie.

Again - I have to question why not? What was Officer Erhard doing (in a life and death situation) while he waited for paramedics to arrive?

 

[Brit]

This information has been posted here before, but I'll post it again.

She gave a few rescue breaths and yelled for X who then called 9-1-1 at 1010 hours. Officer Erhard was the first to arrive to the scene at 1012 hours and gave dispatch the correct address once he made contact with X. He then alerted the fire department personnel.


According to the AR (page 2), RZ had reportedly attempted to administer CPR (rescue breaths) to MS while awaiting the arrival of paramedics.
Nowhere in this description of events does it mention that Officer Erhard administered CPR to MS while awaiting the arrival of paramedics. I have to ask: why not? CPR is an exhausting activity & cannot be carried out effectively by one individual for more than a few minutes
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

Continuing on page 2 of the AR:

Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) was reportedly started by Max's father's girlfriend. Upon paramedic's arrival, CPR was continued and cardiotonic medications were administered.


It was noted in the AR that RZ was reported to have administered some sort of CPR, but nowhere does it mention that Officer Erhard provided CPR to Maxie.

Again - I have to question why not? What was Officer Erhard doing (in a life and death situation) while he waited for paramedics to arrive?

Could it be possible that the reason officer erhard was not administering CPR is that Rebecca already was? I could imagine that an officer would not just sit by twiddling his thumbs and let this boy lay there with no help. Jmho

 

[Yoda]

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but in the search warrant they wanted a potted tree from the entryway. It wasn't on the inventory. Does that mean when they got there they decided they didn't need it or does it mean they couldn't find it? Tia

 

[sorrell skye]

Could it be possible that the reason officer erhard was not administering CPR is that Rebecca already was? I could imagine that an officer would not just sit by twiddling his thumbs and let this boy lay there with no help. Jmho

In a life & death situation, when a first responder arrives on a scene, the first responder (in this case, Officer Erhard) is required to administer life saving measures, even if a civilian (non-medical personnel) is already performing CPR.

 

[elfie]

Constant, quickening motion is needed to speed up a fall. Slowing down a fall by using arms or legs lessens the velocity. That's why an unconscious person would have greater velocity in going over a railing than a conscious person would.

As far as MS riding a scooter goes, he would not have been able to get that scooter over the railing no matter how quickly he was going because a scooter can't leap up into the air and over a railing no matter how quickly you ride it. Remember, LE says he was found on his back with a scooter on his leg.

No one is suggesting the scooter lept into the air. The scenario involves the support bar of the handle bar colliding where the banister dips just below the first step from the 2nd floor. Max's momentum from the sudden stop could force him against the handlebar, causing the handlebar to pivot forward (remember the railing is only about 20" or so high at that point, from previous descriptions).

The support bar would be behaving as a see saw in this situation. The added height of the scooter along (with the forward momentum) could raise his center of mass enough to tilt right over the banister. At that point gravity takes over and a parabolic downward trajectory is inevitable. This would cause him (and the scooter) to collide with the chandelier and depending on his velocity, possibly the opposite banister. Less velocity and he doesn't reach the other banister, sufficient velocity and he does.

No amount of hand braking is going to effect a fall of this distance.

 

[Morag]

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but in the search warrant they wanted a potted tree from the entryway. It wasn't on the inventory. Does that mean when they got there they decided they didn't need it or does it mean they couldn't find it? Tia

When they got there and found out how heavy it was, they just said, "oh, never mind"! i think that it is pictured in this photograph, taken sometime after the foyer was cleared of other items:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

If you look carefully at the railing on the lower landing, you will see a few fronds.

 

[elfie]

Constant, quickening motion is needed to speed up a fall. Slowing down a fall by using arms or legs lessens the velocity. That's why an unconscious person would have greater velocity in going over a railing than a conscious person would.

As far as MS riding a scooter goes, he would not have been able to get that scooter over the railing no matter how quickly he was going because a scooter can't leap up into the air and over a railing no matter how quickly you ride it. Remember, LE says he was found on his back with a scooter on his leg.

Also, he's going to fall a 9.8 m per second per second because the human body does not provide enough drag to counter the effect of the force of gravity. We just don't fly.

 

[elfie]

In order for a scooter to go over the railing, it would have to be propelled. What would propel it?

Max's continued momentum against the handlebars.

This is why we need safety belts in an automobile. Any unsecured object will continue at the velocity prior to a collision or sudden braking.

 

[jjenny]

Max's continued momentum against the handlebars.

This is why we need safety belts in an automobile. Any unsecured object will continue at the velocity prior to a collision or sudden braking.

The idea that Max was on his scooter makes the most sense to me now. I am not sure why police didn't use it in their illustration but that might have been too difficult to model. Being on the scooter would explain why he lost his balance and went over the railing, achieving the momentum to propel him. That would also explain why the scooter was found downstairs with him.

 

[Brit]

No one is suggesting the scooter lept into the air. The scenario involves the support bar of the handle bar colliding where the banister dips just below the first step from the 2nd floor. Max's momentum from the sudden stop could force him against the handlebar, causing the handlebar to pivot forward (remember the railing is only about 20" or so high at that point, from previous descriptions).

The support bar would be behaving as a see saw in this situation. The added height of the scooter along (with the forward momentum) could raise his center of mass enough to tilt right over the banister. At that point gravity takes over and a parabolic downward trajectory is inevitable. This would cause him (and the scooter) to collide with the chandelier and depending on his velocity, possibly the opposite banister. Less velocity and he doesn't reach the other banister, sufficient velocity and he does.

No amount of hand braking is going to effect a fall of this distance.

The type of scooter that I believe was found at the scene was a razor. These scooters are extremely lightweight and are great for doing tricks, like skateboard tricks. A person can ride railings and curbs and do jumps just as a skateboarder would do, and the fact that it is a
scooter instead of a skateboard makes it easy for the you ger kids to do tricks....I k ow this because I have a young son who rides one all the time. Here is a link to a video of how the razor can maneuver so everyone can get a peak at how it moves.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/weshouldbfamous/mind-boggling-razor-scooter-tricks-266j

I think that I read in one of ms search warrants that ms was told not to ride his scooter in the hallway. Could it be possible that he typically would try do do some tricks on the steps or near the railing? I really think that could be a possibility. Jmho

 

[jjenny]

I did a youtube search. There is a whole bunch of videos of kids doing trying to do tricks on these things. It wouldn't surprise me if Max was on his scooter, lost his balance and went over the railing holding his scooter, instead of running as police illustration shows.

 

[PeteJ]

Is it possible that an officer would stand around and watch RZ continue to give CPR? Its not an easy thing to do for any period of time unrelieved by others.

 

[sorrell skye]

Is it possible that an officer would stand around and watch RZ continue to give CPR? Its not an easy thing to do for any period of time unrelieved by others.

Is it possible? Apparently, so, based on the information in the AR. Nowhere in MS's AR does it state that Officer Erhard administered any first aid or CPR to MS - and I have to question why?

A first responder is required by law to take regular classes in first aid & CPR. A first responder arriving on the scene of a life and death situation should immediately administer CPR (after ensuring that paramedics are en route).

According the the AR, there is no mention of Officer Erhard administering CPR.

 

[Yoda]

When they got there and found out how heavy it was, they just said, "oh, never mind"! i think that it is pictured in this photograph, taken sometime after the foyer was cleared of other items:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms03.jpg

If you look carefully at the railing on the lower landing, you will see a few fronds.

Good eye seeing the tree in that photo! I was curious because if it was where it is in the photo wouldn't it have some type of damage- from MS, the chandelier, or the scooter? Or have broken glass from the chandelier in the pot? And if it didn't, wouldn't that be odd considering where it was located?
Or maybe it just was too heavy.

 

[Callie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDS22 [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7155503#post7155503"]

[/ame]
That's because of the speed of a horse rather than its height.

Actually, it's because Reeve's mount shied @ the jump & came to a sudden halt.

Reeve had been approaching the third of 18 jumps -- a triple-bar about 3 1/2 feet high -- on the course when his horse, Eastern Express, apparently could not find the right spot to make the jump. The horse abruptly stopped, causing Reeve to "roll up the horse's neck and fall on his head on the other side of the jump," according to Monk Reynolds, the equestrian center's owner.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A99660-1995Jun1.html

Hi All, Have been reading Max's threads for a few days now, but I wanted to pause to respond to this issue about Reeves and his horse.
Although the horse abruptly stopped, Reeves himself continued at the same speed the horse was initially traveling. He apparently still had a fairly good grip on the reins as he did a roll over the horse's neck. There was still a substantial force to the fall due to the speed.

 

[Callie]

I will say this: although Reeve's horse came to an abrupt halt, Reeve's body (when he was thrown) would have been traveling @ the speed of his horse prior to his horse refusing the jump. The event in which Reeve was competing was cross-country equestrian jumping. Average speed of mounts in this competition is 546 meters per minute (depending upon whether or not the event is preliminary, intermediate, or advanced).

546 meters per minute = about 20.36 mph. The speed @ which Reeve's body could have been traveling when he was thrown from his horse may have been about 20.36 mph.

http://convert-to.com/202/speed-units.html

Reeve wasn't dismounted @ a necessarily high rate of speed.

IMO, it was the angle @ which Reeve's head impacted the ground, and the angle @ which his neck hyper-extended when his head impacted the ground, that led to his spinal cord injuries.

How is this applicable to this case? IMO, the angle @ which MS's head & neck possibly impacted the opposite stair railing and/or the carpeted cement floor below after falling from a 2nd story landing is what caused the hyper-extension of his neck, and is what led to his fatal spinal cord injuries.

OOPS! I hadn't read your post when I posted my comment about Reeve's accident and him continuing at the speed of the horse before he balked. We agree on that and also the angle Max might have hit.

 

[rosemary]

By being thrown, unconscious, over the railing, by someone twice his size.

how would a person the size of Rebecca manage to throw an unconscious Max from the upper banister with enough velocity like you stated he needed to have had for his injuries? Your theory seems more implausible than the accident scenario imo.

 

[rosemary]

elfie:

No one is suggesting the scooter lept into the air. The scenario involves the support bar of the handle bar colliding where the banister dips just below the first step from the 2nd floor. Max's momentum from the sudden stop could force him against the handlebar, causing the handlebar to pivot forward (remember the railing is only about 20" or so high at that point, from previous descriptions).

The support bar would be behaving as a see saw in this situation. The added height of the scooter along (with the forward momentum) could raise his center of mass enough to tilt right over the banister. At that point gravity takes over and a parabolic downward trajectory is inevitable. This would cause him (and the scooter) to collide with the chandelier and depending on his velocity, possibly the opposite banister. Less velocity and he doesn't reach the other banister, sufficient velocity and he does.

No amount of hand braking is going to effect a fall of this distance.

I did a youtube search. There is a whole bunch of videos of kids doing trying to do tricks on these things. It wouldn't surprise me if Max was on his scooter, lost his balance and went over the railing holding his scooter, instead of running as police illustration shows.

this is one such example of that scenario you described. the person in the video flew high enough into the air without once letting go of the handle bars of the scooter and also face planted on to the ground.

warning!! this is extremely graphic and disturbing to watch

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_U6W5ZY-ek"]Razor Scooter faceplant - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Callie]

elfie:



this is one such example of that scenario you described. the person in the video flew high enough into the air without once letting go of the handle bars of the scooter and also face planted on to the ground.

warning!! this is extremely graphic and disturbing to watch

Razor Scooter faceplant - YouTube

Hi Rosemary, If you click on your video screen it will take you to the YouTube site. The guy who posted that states he created the video using an editing program.