GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[Izzylizzy]

Or you could say it was an up hill battle to show she was an attentive mother.

LOL!
Good one!

 

[cottonweaver]

In hindsight it was all downhill for Smith when she opened using Taylor Swift lyrics.

Everything went downhill for everybody when Jennifer Crumbley said in that OHS office, after 11 minutes " Are we Done?!'

 

[wyome]

In hindsight it was all downhill for Smith when she opened using Taylor Swift lyrics.

Whereas I honestly thought her closing was brilliant, her opening with Taylor Swift lyrics was bizarre at best. You don't open with a pop singer's lyrics when four children are dead.

It does make me wonder if both sides higher focus groups of mock jurors before they try these lighthearted attempts to connect with the jury. I've been a mock juror before in a paid focus group. I would have said hell no to that opening.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think she'll get 7-8 years for each count, served concurrently. I think that will only be because the judge has some empathy for her. MI doesn't move too far off sentencing guidelines, imo, so I don't see her getting time served or any sort of home confinement. Four people died, others were left with life-changing injuries. I think she'll definitely do prison time. MOO, though.

MI has one Women's Correctional Facility, Huron Valley.

What's Huron Valley's reputation like?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Almost wish she hadn’t said anything. She said ‘the thing that really hammered it home was that she was the last person with the gun.’ And then she skedaddled. JC was holding the gun at the shooting range when they were leaving after their target practice. She said she left the gun in the car for James to put away when he got home. Does the jury think that’s where EC picked it up from the day of the shooting and took it to school? It was in the car the whole time? Hmmmm….makes sense!

JC's boyfriend Brian testified that on the way to the school meeting JC told him that the handgun was still in her car.
That would have been 2 days since she left the shooting range,
Brian told her that's a bad place to have the gun.

Smith and JC said that's not true.
Both said that Brian got that wrong, Smith said he has memory problems, which he had admitted to and iirc: Smith called him an idiot.

 

[Marysmith]

If a juvenile commits SA, hopefully we can get neglectful parents convicted of rape etc... too.

Ummm… this is a slippery slope. Every situation is different.

 

[stripehaven2]

I watched it live on MSNBC, but it was difficult to see their reactions. SS put her hand to her face briefly, but I couldn't see JC. I'm sure there are going to be many videos showing the verdict announcement.

Shannon looked like she was about to spit fire.

 

[borndem]

Still SMH about Mrs. Crumbley. IMO, the quote cited below says so much about her and about her opinions about her son.
Excerpt from the NBC News article -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Feb. 6, 2024, 1:18 PM EST / Updated Feb. 6, 2024, 2:38 PM EST
By Selina Guevara and Erik Ortiz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"She acknowledged that she could have taken him home on the day of the shooting, but also didn't believe he was capable of committing such violence. More than two years after the shooting, she told the jury she "wouldn't have" done anything differently."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Source:
Jennifer Crumbley, mother of Ethan Crumbley, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son’s school shooting

 

[Gardenista]

Shannon looked like she was about to spit fire.

She might be worried that someday, she's "going to be sitting in that chair" lol. After today's verdict, I think some parents need to be worried about that.

 

[RickshawFan]

Still SMH about Mrs. Crumbley. IMO, the quote cited below says so much about her and about her opinions about her son.
Excerpt from the NBC News article -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Feb. 6, 2024, 1:18 PM EST / Updated Feb. 6, 2024, 2:38 PM EST
By Selina Guevara and Erik Ortiz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"She acknowledged that she could have taken him home on the day of the shooting, but also didn't believe he was capable of committing such violence. More than two years after the shooting, she told the jury she "wouldn't have" done anything differently."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Source:
Jennifer Crumbley, mother of Ethan Crumbley, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son’s school shooting

In that case, she could be in a position to let something similar happen again. She's dangerous.

 

[Cedars]

Ummm… this is a slippery slope. Every situation is different.

I agree. This couple are pretty exceptional, IMO - they knew they were directly at fault and tried to hide from police! IMO they are conscious of their guilt, but in order to avoid jail, are doing and saying whatever their defense lawyers advise.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Shannon looked like she was about to spit fire.

She won't be adding this case to her press cuttings page on her website!

Press Appearances - Shannon Smith Law

Our firm has been featured in most major news channels and media outlets such as CNN, Fox News, New York Times, and many more.

defendingabuse.com

ps why is her partner not listed on her site ( the atty for James who is or was part of Shannon's firm)

 

[Cool Cats]

I think she'll get 7-8 years for each count, served concurrently. I think that will only be because the judge has some empathy for her. MI doesn't move too far off sentencing guidelines, imo, so I don't see her getting time served or any sort of home confinement. Four people died, others were left with life-changing injuries. I think she'll definitely do prison time. MOO, though.

MI has one Women's Correctional Facility, Huron Valley.

I want to find out how many years would she have to serve before coming up for parole?

A 7 year sentence minus the 2 years and 2 months she has served is....4 years and 10 months.

If she comes up for parole in 5 years she would be 2 years and 10 months into her prison sentence.

 

[Weki]

Attorney Todd Flood's commentary
starts around 5 mins into the show.

Notes:
Shannon got very close to jury nullification. JC taking the stand probably harmed her case - he raises a few points we also made about her impeachability and for example the implausibility of ' helicopter parent' and JC's lack of expressed regrets as to whether she would've done anything differently in hindsight - which we were reacting to live that day on WS.
Also why he thinks it took 11 hrs deliberation

At 18mins Judge Kenney briefly comments on precedence and JC ' blew through a lot of red lights.' ( warnings re EC)
Also comments on her lack of credibility and the overshoot on ' hypervigilance' etc.
Sentencing presents unprecedented issues, the guidelines are advisory. ( Landmark only as far as mass shooter category but parents do get convicted for reckless gun ownership)

Reporter says that jurors were paying close attention during trial and quite a few were taking notes throughout and says that JC seem surprised or shocked at the verdict

10 -15yr sentence requires parole board involvement. Todd Flood comes back on the show to opine on what James C 's defense attorney will do differently, learning from Jenn's trial. He also characterises the approach to Ethan C as akin to ' abandonment'

I liked his commentary! And although I missed it - I agree about EC’s abandonment. The way they treated him after the shooting tells us exactly how they treated him before the shooting. Smh.

 

[wyome]

Still SMH about Mrs. Crumbley. IMO, the quote cited below says so much about her and about her opinions about her son.
Excerpt from the NBC News article -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Feb. 6, 2024, 1:18 PM EST / Updated Feb. 6, 2024, 2:38 PM EST
By Selina Guevara and Erik Ortiz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"She acknowledged that she could have taken him home on the day of the shooting, but also didn't believe he was capable of committing such violence. More than two years after the shooting, she told the jury she "wouldn't have" done anything differently."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Source:
Jennifer Crumbley, mother of Ethan Crumbley, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son’s school shooting

For what's it worth...That was cringeworthy for sure. I'm almost positive that was a defense tactic that they agreed upon and it backfired.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Whereas I honestly thought her closing was brilliant, her opening with Taylor Swift lyrics was bizarre at best. You don't open with a pop singer's lyrics when four children are dead.

It does make me wonder if both sides higher focus groups of mock jurors before they try these lighthearted attempts to connect with the jury. I've been a mock juror before in a paid focus group. I would have said hell no to that opening.

I found Smith's closing as even transcending the bizarre, highly offensive, highly unprofessional and highly insulting to the 4 students EC slaughtered and their loved ones along with Smith's own children.

What I did find bizarre, and extremely so, was seeing a female lawyer whip off her jacket in a courtroom and clean herself off with a wipe trying to convince the jury that's she's as busy as being a mom as JC was and doesn't always have time for a real shower.

Along with turning around at another time and giving the bird to spectators in the courtroom.

Well, neither her opening or closing got her anywhere except being mocked and the target of some damn funny tik-toks and jokes.

 

[cottonweaver]

"I wouldn't have changed a thing" would put JC in a position to foster the context where something violent will happen AGAIN. IMO the sentence had better reflect that.

Related query

In that Todd Flood clip above ( my post) he says that if JC gets over 10 years she'll need to go through the Parole Board to get out.
Doesn't that mean that, as part of the parole process, she'd have to accept and show remorse?
( Or, in reality, is it easy to fake acceptance of guilt and remorse?)

 

[wyome]

I found Smith's closing as even transcending the bizarre, highly offensive, highly unprofessional and highly insulting to the 4 students EC slaughtered and their loved ones along with Smith's own children.

What I did find bizarre, and extremely so, was seeing a female lawyer whip off her jacket in a courtroom and clean herself off with a wipe trying to convince the jury that's she's as busy as being a mom as JC was and doesn't always have time for a real shower.

Along with turning around at another time and giving the bird to spectators in the courtroom.

Well, neither her opening or closing got her anywhere except being mocked and the target of some damn funny tik-toks and jokes.

I'm sorry I offended you!

 

[cottonweaver]

I liked his commentary! And although I missed it - I agree about EC’s abandonment. The way they treated him after the shooting tells us exactly how they treated him before the shooting. Smh.

I think that some of these local atty commentaries are better than the usual talking heads we see on TV - they know the place, state law, local juries etc
He mentions how the sentence is calculated but I'd made so many notes, I didn't add that part

 

[KMouse]

Thank You...She did sound very confident and quite young reading the guilty verdicts.

According to the jury foreman what drove the guilty verdict home was that JC was the last adult with the gun.
That would have to have been at the shooting range.

Looks like there's no gag order on the jurors, judges usually talk to jurors when trials are over about speaking to the press.
I've only heard from past trials that it's up to the juror and never heard of a gag order still being involved in another trial.

Interesting. James knew the gun was missing because he came home and it wasn't in the case. Therefore to me that means he knew exactly where that case was and it wasn't in the car.