GUILTY MI - Jamila Smith, 3, beaten to death, Detroit, Sept 2014

[katydid23]

rsbm --

Hold on there. I don't ever recall saying that it was ok to break the law. I do believe that people have an absolute right to protest legally, though. So I'll ask you to take that back.

I hope you'll remember that you've stated it's ok to make exceptions with regard to obeying the law. I hope you'll own up to that.

So you are saying that all of the protesters are wrong to break curfew laws and noise laws? Should they be arrested then? Because none of the recent protests have been done fully legally. All of them have broken various laws. But the chief of police has told the officers to overlook it all.

I am very surprised to hear you say that but I will take your word for it.

And yes, I do think there are exceptions that should be made with regard to strictly obeying the law. I am a flexible person.

I grew up in Berkeley California---went to UC there in the 60's. Obviously I broke a few laws back in the day.

I broke a major law more recently by helping a loved one with the painful end stages of cancer end their time on this sphere. I was and still am willing to face the courts if it ever comes to that. But I passionately disagree with the law that prohibits terminally ill patients from choosing to take control of their own departures.

I have no problem owning up to my statement that it is OK, in my opinion, to sometimes make exceptions with regard to some of our laws. As long as one accepts that they may have to pay the legal price , of course.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Absolutely. Because parents who stay together never, ever abuse their children.

That isn't what I meant.

How much interaction did bio-dad have with his daughter? Did he pay child support? Did he have regular visitation with the little girl? Did he spend enough time with the child to recognize signs of abuse?

Like many of these local (Detroit) cases that I read about, the fathers are generally absent, don't have much of a relationship with their offspring, don't pay child support, etc. I suspect, based on what I know about the case, that there were similar circumstances in this situation. I'm sure the bio-dad is angry that his child died at the hands of her mother and a male friend, but I'm left wondering just how much parenting this father did. If he had been involved in his daughter's life, perhaps he would have noticed early on that the little girl was being abused and should have been removed from her mother's care. :moo:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

In courtroom, dad hits man guilty of killing daughter

Oralandar Brand-Williams 1:17 a.m. EDT August 28, 2015

Detroit — A father angry at the man convicted for beating to death his 3-year-old daughter jumped over a protective barrier in a courtroom Thursday and punched the defendant, sending spectators scrambling.

The toddler’s father attacked Clifford Daniel Thomas, who was about to be sentenced in the death of his girlfriend’s daughter. Jasmine Gordon, the child’s mother, was also convicted in the child’s death.

Thomas was babysitting Jasmine Gordon’s young daughter, Jamilia, and son while she was at work in September 2014. Little Jamilia was taken to Henry Ford Hospital where she was pronounced dead on arrival on Sept. 18. Doctors saw she had bruises and her head and chest showed signs of physical abuse.

The drama inside the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice courtroom was captured by a WDIV-TV Local 4 cameraman. No charges have been filed against the father but he was removed from the courtroom and detained...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...d-punches-man-guilty-daughter-death/71276294/

 

[Morag]

That isn't what I meant.

How much interaction did bio-dad have with his daughter? Did he pay child support? Did he have regular visitation with the little girl? Did he spend enough time with the child to recognize signs of abuse?

Like many of these local (Detroit) cases that I read about, the fathers are generally absent, don't have much of a relationship with their offspring, don't pay child support, etc. I suspect, based on what I know about the case, that there were similar circumstances in this situation. I'm sure the bio-dad is angry that his child died at the hands of her mother and a male friend, but I'm left wondering just how much parenting this father did. If he had been involved in his daughter's life, perhaps he would have noticed early on that the little girl was being abused and should have been removed from her mother's care. :moo:

To begin with, we don't know how much or how little time her father spent with her. And even if he was an absentee father and we don't know that- it's wrong to blame him for her death or to insinuate that he has no right to be furiously angry. Whether he was an excellent father or not, his anger is well justified, and he cannot be held responsible for what her murderers chose to do to her. I would have done the same thing he did.

 

[bluesneakers]

Question aimed at no one in particular:

What if the defendants had been found not guilty? Would you view the father's punch-throwing in a different light? Why or why not?

I don't want to judge a grieving father and if it had been my kid I might've thrown a punch if I had the chance. But. I'm not saying he did the right thing because it was wrong imo, and he should still have to face the consequences.

 

[human]

In some States, people are indeed executed for killing children. It hasn't acted as detterent.
In most places a lifetime in prison is the sentence. It hasn't led to fewer child deaths.

Is it possible that we should add a new sentence of a short period in jail for the non killing charges and 15 minutes in a room with a single family member of the child?

Would you want to be that family member?
Do you think it would lessen child deaths?

Personally, I understand why he did it, I couldn't personally do it. I think that not acting on violent impulses is what separates me from the 'killers' here.

I don't care if it is a deterrent. The killer made a choice to kill. Of course the death penalty is too expensive so it is cheaper to keep them in prison, but what a waste of money and resources.

The father was helpless to protect his child. I guess this is one thing he could do for the child.

It's a bummer for all of the reasons that people talk about lawlessness, etc.

But the law is not black and white, There is usually wiggle room for mitigating circumstances.

 

[gitana1]

I fully understand why the father of a brutally murdered toddler would react that way. It is understandable. I do not feel sorry for his child's murderer either.

I hope that his consequence is a slap on the wrist.

In law, we have different categories of charges and penalties for people who do something in cold blood and those who react due to "passion" or due to being temporarily insane or incapacitated. This man acted out of spur of the moment passion, it appears, as he did have a victim impact statement he was to give, and the anguish that caused that passion is understandable.

So I hope his consequence is being sentenced to therapy or something, to help him with his unendurable grief.

 

[flourish]

If you had a beautiful 3 yr old baby girl, and someone beat her to death, how would you react to seeing her killer a few feet away from you? Are you saying that you would not have the urge to punch him? I sure would and I don't feel ashamed to admit so.

I had a beautiful three month old son. His father shook him violently. He survived initially but did die from the injuries. I had to sit in a courtroom and listen to my ex's lawyer tell the court that if I had just aborted the pregnancy then...



I shared this on the Jared subway thread but I was offered some jailhouse justice by a group of his fellow blockmates. I declined the offer.

I understand the feelings behind attacks like that but I can't condone them. Violence isn't an answer to violence IMO.

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[human]

I had a beautiful three month old son. His father shook him violently. He survived initially but did die from the injuries. I had to sit in a courtroom and listen to my ex's lawyer tell the court that if I had just aborted the pregnancy then...



I shared this on the Jared subway thread but I was offered some jailhouse justice by a group of his fellow blockmates. I declined the offer.

I understand the feelings behind attacks like that but I can't condone them. Violence isn't an answer to violence IMO.

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I don't know how you didn't go wild. I really don't.

To have the grace of your feelings is humbling to me. Hugs!

 

[flourish]

I don't know how you didn't go wild. I really don't.

To have the grace of your feelings is humbling to me. Hugs!

Honestly the fact that my son was still living at the time of the sentencing was probably some of why I was able to maintain. But also I was only 22 and scared and I have always been able to maintain a healthy moral compass.

It's been 20 years now. A very difficult two decades. At first I refused to leave my bed at first and had a suicide plan, date, and means. But I had an epiphany one day which changed my mind about suicide, so that's no longer an option, which depresses me sometimes still though. Anyway

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[La Louve]

Flourish, the thanks button is not enough.

I'm so very sorry for your loss and subsequent struggles. My heart goes out to you.

 

[blefuscu]

The father of the child, who died of blunt force trauma, attacked the boyfriend of the mother, when he stepped up to make his statement in court after the mother and boyfriend were convicted of involuntary manslaughter. There is video from court in the link

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...father-attacks-daughters-killer-10479831.html

 

[kimi_SFC]

I can't even imagine the emotions this father was experiencing as he faced his daughter's killer in open court. :no:

It is something we read about here at WS all too often. In fact, some of our fellow WSers have had to go through this same process, as family members of victims. It must be an absolute nightmare.

I wonder if he felt the sentence played a role. To lose your child to violence, and have the plea be anything less than murder must be SO painful

(From your link):

[...]
Smith was not allowed to return to the courtroom but managed to avoid being charged over the incident.
“No charges were pursued against those involved as the judge declined to hold Dwayne Smith in contempt of court,” a spokesman for the Wayne County Sheriff’s Office told the newspaper.
“Clifford Thomas refused prosecution of Smith.”
Gordon was sentenced to between seven to fifteen years for involuntary manslaughter and fourteen to twenty-five for child abuse.
Thomas was sentenced to about six years to fifteen years for involuntary manslaughter and one to two years for resisting and obstructing a police officer.
[...]

I would be beside myself. Not to excuse this act, but I wonder if he felt the perp deserved more? Anything less than a life sentence for killing a child just doesn't seem like justice to me. JMO.



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[kimi_SFC]

Here's the link to the video (via the Independent UK news story)

[video=youtu;G_hS-HlB2VE]http://youtu.be/G_hS-HlB2VE[/video]

The victim's father wasn't allowed to return to the courtroom after this occurred. However, he wasn't charged.




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