Lurkey Lou
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Thanks Missizzy. I've been lurking here for a few weeks, fascinating what you all do here. Such sad stories and the things you guys are doing is just amazing.
GUILTY MI - Jesse Miles, 69, shot to death, Niles Twp, 7 March 2010
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Lurkey Lou
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people do seem to believe there is no way the grandfather was an abuser of any variety, according to the comments on the local news sites.
bamabeauty
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It is a very sad case but I too feel that all the info is not being released. It just does not make any sense. I think the police must no something that they are not revealing and that is why he was charged he way he was.
Lurkey Lou
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He goes back to court today.
http://www.wndu.com/hometop/headlines/88895137.html
from the article: In Tuesday’s court appearance, the prosecution will lay out its case against Eliason. Despite his confession to police, Eliason has not entered a formal plea and his attorney says psychological testing will likely happen.
http://www.wndu.com/hometop/headlines/88895137.html
from the article: In Tuesday’s court appearance, the prosecution will lay out its case against Eliason. Despite his confession to police, Eliason has not entered a formal plea and his attorney says psychological testing will likely happen.
Vegas Bride
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If he had for some reason "snapped" then why did he just shoot his grandfather? Wouldn't it make more sense then for him to also shoot his grandmother?
Generally it seems to me that when someone in the family snaps, they go after everyone in the home, and then run away. This boy shot his grandfather, then goes to his grandmother and lays the gun down on the floor? Why does he feel the need to let his grandmother know he has done this?
Why was the grandfather sleeping on the sofa?
Why was the grandmother with the boy and not her husband, most times it seems loved ones have to be pulled off someone they've just lost.
I'm not saying the grandfather did something wrong, I just have questions about things that to me stand out as being off.
VB
Generally it seems to me that when someone in the family snaps, they go after everyone in the home, and then run away. This boy shot his grandfather, then goes to his grandmother and lays the gun down on the floor? Why does he feel the need to let his grandmother know he has done this?
Why was the grandfather sleeping on the sofa?
Why was the grandmother with the boy and not her husband, most times it seems loved ones have to be pulled off someone they've just lost.
I'm not saying the grandfather did something wrong, I just have questions about things that to me stand out as being off.
VB
totally agree. alot of things arent adding up.
that's why i threw the terminal illness thing out there as a possibility
The only other thing I can think of relates to an incident that happened in our own home a few years back. We only rarely had TV as one of our kids (you know the ones with DD who are triply smarter than their Dad or me when it comes to electronics?) would figure out the code to turn the TV back on and play video games, or watch TV or borrowed highly inappropriate movies. Once, my husband heard a noise downstairs and went to investigate at 3 am.
Sure enough, our guy who has the *advertiser censored* addiction had overridden the code and was watching something vile. My husband read him the riot act, turned off the TV and confiscated the *advertiser censored* (which had his friend's father's name of it!!). Not an hour later, we heard another noise. Sure enough, there was our son watching ANOTHER film. We could not believe it. My husband was so sleepy and tired of dealing with him that he sent our son to bed and slept on the couch the rest of the night to guard the TV. See why we finally pulled the plug?
Anyway, if Dakotah had a serious addiction to his video games (and boys can be tremendously addicted), possibly the grandpa was tired of telling him to go to bed and simply slept on the couch to ensure that the boy stayed off the TV. I have no idea if this fits this boys' profile but I don't like what I see when many boys play some of the games. As our boys reached 18, we started allowing sports games and racing games but that was always it. We had to be so strict and it was a full time job. Every once in a while, someone would sneak in an adult game and I would be shocked at not only the violence in the video but the intensity in my boys.
Come to think of it, they always kept the sound down so I wouldn't hear but I could sense something was off due to their demeanor. Our house was over 5000 sq. ft and three stories. I could tell from 1/4 mile away (the approx. distance from my office to the kid's family room) what they were playing. I remember pulling the plug one time and having my youngest threaten to flatten me if I touched the video (pulled it anyway). The violent games took my boys to places I didn't want them going. We also had a rule that when we confiscated a borrowed one, the other parent had to call us to get it back. Oooh, we were tough. And thank God, we never owned a gun.
I hope that's not what happened here. I really do.
Sure enough, our guy who has the *advertiser censored* addiction had overridden the code and was watching something vile. My husband read him the riot act, turned off the TV and confiscated the *advertiser censored* (which had his friend's father's name of it!!). Not an hour later, we heard another noise. Sure enough, there was our son watching ANOTHER film. We could not believe it. My husband was so sleepy and tired of dealing with him that he sent our son to bed and slept on the couch the rest of the night to guard the TV. See why we finally pulled the plug?
Anyway, if Dakotah had a serious addiction to his video games (and boys can be tremendously addicted), possibly the grandpa was tired of telling him to go to bed and simply slept on the couch to ensure that the boy stayed off the TV. I have no idea if this fits this boys' profile but I don't like what I see when many boys play some of the games. As our boys reached 18, we started allowing sports games and racing games but that was always it. We had to be so strict and it was a full time job. Every once in a while, someone would sneak in an adult game and I would be shocked at not only the violence in the video but the intensity in my boys.
Come to think of it, they always kept the sound down so I wouldn't hear but I could sense something was off due to their demeanor. Our house was over 5000 sq. ft and three stories. I could tell from 1/4 mile away (the approx. distance from my office to the kid's family room) what they were playing. I remember pulling the plug one time and having my youngest threaten to flatten me if I touched the video (pulled it anyway). The violent games took my boys to places I didn't want them going. We also had a rule that when we confiscated a borrowed one, the other parent had to call us to get it back. Oooh, we were tough. And thank God, we never owned a gun.
I hope that's not what happened here. I really do.
From reading all the posts, the video game scenario rings true to me. I remember when my boys were younger and got their first nintendo games. My oldest son would play for hours on end, while my younger son would play for an hour or so and then go outside to play ball. My older son was more quiet and younger son was more outgoing.
I noticed that when my boys would play for long periods of time, they would become very agitated when I told them it was time to quit playing. They also would fight and argue more. There were times that I would find a reason to punish them by taking away the gaming system. For the 1st 24 hours of punishment, they would continue to argue and fight. After the "withdrawl" was over, they would play nicely and everything would be pretty peaceful. After a few weeks, we'd give the system back and they could play it until I noticed the escalation of agitation and fighting. As the boys got older, they learned that fighting and arguing with us to get off the games would result in grounding from the games. By junior high and high school, they had learned to curb their fighting so as not to lose it for long periods of time.
Now, I don't think that either of them would have gotten a gun and shot their father or me, but our kids were taught self control from an early age. They also didn't suffer from any attention or emotional problems and, thank God, they were very well adjusted. I don't know if this boy had any problems like that, just saying..
One other note: the video games did affect their attitude in an aggressive way no matter what type it was, James Bond shoot 'em up, racing or sports. To me, it seemed that they became so entrenched in what was going on in their virtual world, that it was hard to transition back to real life and that aggitated them. I know others would argue that violent games would make them more intense, but for my boys it was just separating them from their games that bugged them.
I noticed that when my boys would play for long periods of time, they would become very agitated when I told them it was time to quit playing. They also would fight and argue more. There were times that I would find a reason to punish them by taking away the gaming system. For the 1st 24 hours of punishment, they would continue to argue and fight. After the "withdrawl" was over, they would play nicely and everything would be pretty peaceful. After a few weeks, we'd give the system back and they could play it until I noticed the escalation of agitation and fighting. As the boys got older, they learned that fighting and arguing with us to get off the games would result in grounding from the games. By junior high and high school, they had learned to curb their fighting so as not to lose it for long periods of time.
Now, I don't think that either of them would have gotten a gun and shot their father or me, but our kids were taught self control from an early age. They also didn't suffer from any attention or emotional problems and, thank God, they were very well adjusted. I don't know if this boy had any problems like that, just saying..
One other note: the video games did affect their attitude in an aggressive way no matter what type it was, James Bond shoot 'em up, racing or sports. To me, it seemed that they became so entrenched in what was going on in their virtual world, that it was hard to transition back to real life and that aggitated them. I know others would argue that violent games would make them more intense, but for my boys it was just separating them from their games that bugged them.
Lurkey Lou
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http://www.wndu.com/hometop/headlines/88895137.html
Exhaustive day in court, updated on the news website.
snipped from the website:My life just became an episode of Law and Order, said Eliason during the recording.
Eliason occasionally sang to some lyrics, while saying he disliked other songs. He also complained about the handcuffs he was wearing.
Toward the end of the recording Eliason said "I wish I could take it back.
Castow went on to testify about Eliason He was not upset, he showed no signs of remorse whatsoever. He was more inquisitive on what was taking place and what was going to happen."
Cotter also played a 55 minute video and audio recording of an interview of Eliason with Michigan State Police Detective Sergeant Fabian Suarez. Eliasons father Steven was also present for some of the questioning.
In the video, Eliason described getting the gun and debating between suicide and homicide of his grandfather. He said he briefly considered killing his grandmother. Eliason also said he debated using a knife instead of a gun to make less noise.
He made some mention of voices in his head and also discussed split personalities at one point.
With his father out of the room, Eliason told the Suarez he had pent up anger about his parents and his inability to watch his younger brother grow up.
Eliason also said he sat in a chair and argued with himself over the decision before blacking out. He then remembered shooting his Papa.
there is alot more at the link. Mystifying.
Exhaustive day in court, updated on the news website.
snipped from the website:My life just became an episode of Law and Order, said Eliason during the recording.
Eliason occasionally sang to some lyrics, while saying he disliked other songs. He also complained about the handcuffs he was wearing.
Toward the end of the recording Eliason said "I wish I could take it back.
Castow went on to testify about Eliason He was not upset, he showed no signs of remorse whatsoever. He was more inquisitive on what was taking place and what was going to happen."
Cotter also played a 55 minute video and audio recording of an interview of Eliason with Michigan State Police Detective Sergeant Fabian Suarez. Eliasons father Steven was also present for some of the questioning.
In the video, Eliason described getting the gun and debating between suicide and homicide of his grandfather. He said he briefly considered killing his grandmother. Eliason also said he debated using a knife instead of a gun to make less noise.
He made some mention of voices in his head and also discussed split personalities at one point.
With his father out of the room, Eliason told the Suarez he had pent up anger about his parents and his inability to watch his younger brother grow up.
Eliason also said he sat in a chair and argued with himself over the decision before blacking out. He then remembered shooting his Papa.
there is alot more at the link. Mystifying.
bamabeauty
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I still feel like there is information missing here. It just does not seem to fit. I am still waiting on some piece of information to come out so I can say "oh I understand now" but saddley I am afraid maybe this is just a bleak as it seems.
colette
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(snipped)http://www.wndu.com/hometop/headlines/88895137.html
He made some mention of voices in his head and also discussed split personalities at one point.
I saw the newscast of some of the court room video. Later he says to the cop something like, "not really voices but more like split personalities"... and then he says a "good" person vs a "bad" person type of thing. It almost sounds like he has wanted to do bad things such as kill, but his good side was controlling it until now. I don't think he will be found insane, he knew what he was doing.
colette
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here it is:
http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/88959372.html
told police he also thought about smothering him with a pillow or stabbing him with a knife that he had pulled out and set aside.
he was overcome with both suicidal and homicidal thoughts in the early morning hours the day he allegedly shot 69-year-old Jesse Miles.
When it came time to pull the trigger, Eliason later told police: "Apparently, I wasn’t ready to go. So it was homicide."
"For five seconds I felt like nothing can hurt you," Eliason was quoted as saying on a tape recording with police played at court today. "And all the tension goes away."
Eliason, who did not speak in court today, also allegedly told police the morning of the shooting that he "at one point" thought about shooting his grandmother as well.
Although the preliminary examination provided a look into the incident, it still did not answer, perhaps, the key question — why he singled his grandfather out. Eliason, according to the tape recording, mentioned multiple personalities and voices in his head at the time of the shooting and said he was fighting good and bad.
http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/88959372.html
told police he also thought about smothering him with a pillow or stabbing him with a knife that he had pulled out and set aside.
he was overcome with both suicidal and homicidal thoughts in the early morning hours the day he allegedly shot 69-year-old Jesse Miles.
When it came time to pull the trigger, Eliason later told police: "Apparently, I wasn’t ready to go. So it was homicide."
"For five seconds I felt like nothing can hurt you," Eliason was quoted as saying on a tape recording with police played at court today. "And all the tension goes away."
Eliason, who did not speak in court today, also allegedly told police the morning of the shooting that he "at one point" thought about shooting his grandmother as well.
Although the preliminary examination provided a look into the incident, it still did not answer, perhaps, the key question — why he singled his grandfather out. Eliason, according to the tape recording, mentioned multiple personalities and voices in his head at the time of the shooting and said he was fighting good and bad.
oceanblueeyes
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It sounds like he wanted to murder someone and he did. He was thinking about shooting both of his grandparents so of course he would murder his grandfather first so that he would no longer be a threat to him.
He sounds just like so many violent youthful offenders we read about today. Had an homicidal ideation and carried it out.
What a tragic death for the grandfather who just happened to be in this boy's midst when he decided he wanted to murder someone.
imo
I'm so sorry, kbl, it's not looking like we were right. It sounds just like Andrew Conley. The boy had a break. Most likely it's an onset of schizophrenia. I just read an article concerning the number of children who "hear voices". Oddly enough, they don't bother most and they seem to grow out of them. The children who lived a rural life were the most affected.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60O3BE20100125
Many children 'hear voices'; most aren't bothered
"Up to 16 percent of mentally healthy children and teens may hear voices, the researchers note in the British Journal of Psychiatry. While hearing voices can signal a heightened risk of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders in later life, they add, the "great majority" of young people who have these experiences never become mentally ill...."
and
"...The researcher said that she and her colleagues had expected that hearing voices would be more common among urban children than among their rural peers, "but to our surprise, the contrary was the case in our sample. We have no explanation for this finding......"
more at link
This is heartbreaking, it truly is. My prayers are with the parents, the grandma, and yes; also with Dakotah. I actually recognize the mechanism and it is terrifying. It just goes to prove that our very lives hang by a slender thread.
Notice he refers to him as his Papa.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60O3BE20100125
Many children 'hear voices'; most aren't bothered
"Up to 16 percent of mentally healthy children and teens may hear voices, the researchers note in the British Journal of Psychiatry. While hearing voices can signal a heightened risk of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders in later life, they add, the "great majority" of young people who have these experiences never become mentally ill...."
and
"...The researcher said that she and her colleagues had expected that hearing voices would be more common among urban children than among their rural peers, "but to our surprise, the contrary was the case in our sample. We have no explanation for this finding......"
more at link
This is heartbreaking, it truly is. My prayers are with the parents, the grandma, and yes; also with Dakotah. I actually recognize the mechanism and it is terrifying. It just goes to prove that our very lives hang by a slender thread.
Notice he refers to him as his Papa.
I'm certainly not "diagnosing" schizophrenia, either. I want to know far more of the story. When I first read the above article about voices, I was actually relieved. We have a child who was put on strong anti-psychotics because she told a med-happy psychiatrist that she heard voices once in a while. I had a strong suspicion that this special needs child was describing "self talk" or the sound of her own conscience (should I sneak that cookie, will anyone know that I used my sister's toothbrush, should I pinch the dog because I'm angry at mom?). We lobbied and got her off the meds and she's doing great. Maybe Dakotah had just begun having symptoms and had yet to disclose them to his family. Children are often afraid and ashamed of admitting they need help. They do not want to be different--especially those who have always been "good" kids and fit in. Kids are notoriously slow about disclosing anything deeply disturbing to them.
That said, after raising so many unique kids, I think that there's a full spectrum of responses to different life stages. We have the 2 year olds who barely shout a single "no" and those who throw screaming tantrums for hours at a time. Twenty years later, you can't tell which was which. The same goes for the teen years. Risk and guilt and development of autonomy is central to the teen years. Most of us wouldn't want to admit it but many have had wicked thoughts about someone in authority when we were in our teens. And most of us turned out fine as we didn't act on those urges or "voices".
It's a spectrum. One boy might mutter a profane word to his Papa as he slept due to some earlier disagreement and another goes and get the shotgun and shoots him. I don't think we'll ever be able to predict with certainty, what any child will do. I think that's why we have a term called mitigating factors. There's an unlimited amount of those.
Living with so many troubled teens, this is the express reason we've never owned a gun and have always kept every knife, pair of scissors, nail file, and tool under lock and key. No one was ever allowed in the house before a full pat down, and there were no purses or back packs. This will cause many of you to cringe but we had to literally stand at the ready as the special bus dropped off our kids. We patted down each child before they entered the house. Shoes were removed and socks and waistbands were checked. Pockets were emptied. Items from school went directly into locked cubbies. Each bedroom got tossed once a week and it was always unscheduled. We had alarms on every door and the girls wing was separated by an alarmed gate from the boy's wing. There were cameras on all exits and the kitchen 24 hours each day. We had our alarm set to wake up every 90 minutes throughout the night to do a walk through.
We had a gorgeous home, fresh baked cookies were on the table, and classical music played through intercoms throughout the house. We had a toy poodle on every couch. It was home but we were careful. We were parenting vulnerable children with known diagnoses, backgrounds filled with rape, violence, chronic illness, and multiple suicides. We were professional in our parenting. We had no choice as the state had entrusted us to raise these children safely and to advocate for them.
It's life on the edge and it's sad. Most people wouldn't be willing to live like that. Most people shouldn't have to. Most parents have a life and hope against hope that "it's just a stage". They don't want to call the psychiatrist and make that first appointment or the behavioral specialist and develop another plan. They need to get dinner on the table and pick up the sister from softball practice.
This Papa obviously did not know what his grandson was capable of. I'm fairly sure his parents, teachers, and classmates didn't either. I don't think many of us are aware of what others are capable of. That's why we have to treasure each second of life. It can be gone in a heartbeat.
I'm going to sound like a broken record over here, but please, please read "The Primal Teen."
That said, after raising so many unique kids, I think that there's a full spectrum of responses to different life stages. We have the 2 year olds who barely shout a single "no" and those who throw screaming tantrums for hours at a time. Twenty years later, you can't tell which was which. The same goes for the teen years. Risk and guilt and development of autonomy is central to the teen years. Most of us wouldn't want to admit it but many have had wicked thoughts about someone in authority when we were in our teens. And most of us turned out fine as we didn't act on those urges or "voices".
It's a spectrum. One boy might mutter a profane word to his Papa as he slept due to some earlier disagreement and another goes and get the shotgun and shoots him. I don't think we'll ever be able to predict with certainty, what any child will do. I think that's why we have a term called mitigating factors. There's an unlimited amount of those.
Living with so many troubled teens, this is the express reason we've never owned a gun and have always kept every knife, pair of scissors, nail file, and tool under lock and key. No one was ever allowed in the house before a full pat down, and there were no purses or back packs. This will cause many of you to cringe but we had to literally stand at the ready as the special bus dropped off our kids. We patted down each child before they entered the house. Shoes were removed and socks and waistbands were checked. Pockets were emptied. Items from school went directly into locked cubbies. Each bedroom got tossed once a week and it was always unscheduled. We had alarms on every door and the girls wing was separated by an alarmed gate from the boy's wing. There were cameras on all exits and the kitchen 24 hours each day. We had our alarm set to wake up every 90 minutes throughout the night to do a walk through.
We had a gorgeous home, fresh baked cookies were on the table, and classical music played through intercoms throughout the house. We had a toy poodle on every couch. It was home but we were careful. We were parenting vulnerable children with known diagnoses, backgrounds filled with rape, violence, chronic illness, and multiple suicides. We were professional in our parenting. We had no choice as the state had entrusted us to raise these children safely and to advocate for them.
It's life on the edge and it's sad. Most people wouldn't be willing to live like that. Most people shouldn't have to. Most parents have a life and hope against hope that "it's just a stage". They don't want to call the psychiatrist and make that first appointment or the behavioral specialist and develop another plan. They need to get dinner on the table and pick up the sister from softball practice.
This Papa obviously did not know what his grandson was capable of. I'm fairly sure his parents, teachers, and classmates didn't either. I don't think many of us are aware of what others are capable of. That's why we have to treasure each second of life. It can be gone in a heartbeat.
I'm going to sound like a broken record over here, but please, please read "The Primal Teen."
A few more details about this tragic case:
http://www.nilesstar.com/2010/03/24/14-year-old-dakotah-eliason-enters-plea/
Emotional testimony
"After taking her place on the stand, Jean Miles recalled her husband Jesse as “a very mild man.”
Discussing the hours prior to the shooting, Miles said she and her grandson had a seemingly uneventful day and watched television and stayed at the home.
Calling her grandson, Eliason, a “very intelligent young man,” Miles became visibly distraught trembling and speaking through tears as she remembered going to sleep around 10:30 p.m. only to hear a popping around 3 a.m., initially assuming it had come from a wood stove in the home. That’s when she said she heard Eliason say, “I just shot Papa.”
“He was on his side,” Miles said of her husband, who slept on the couch in the living room regularly.
“Blood was coming out of his mouth and nose,” she continued as Cotter questioned her about the status of her husband when she found him. “I don’t think he was conscious because he was bleeding so hard.”
Miles said she instructed Eliason to call 911, which he did and he followed his grandmother out into the yard as she watched for first responders.
and
"“You know, at first I didn’t believe that I’d done that,” he says on the video. Inside a small interview room, Suarez sits across from Eliason and attempts to get a clearer understanding of what was going through the boy’s mind.
“When I grabbed the gun, I – it was just this whole thing going on inside my head,” he said...."
and
“You ever hear people talk about voices in their head?” he said. He tried to explain. “It’s not so much that but multiple personalities,” Eliason said, adding there are good and bad sides to a person.
“The good doesn’t always win,” he said....."
and
"There were some rather surprising elements to Suarez’s questioning. He asked Eliason if he had been a friend with Alex Wentz, the 15-year-old Niles High School student who died suddenly last month. Eliason said he and Wentz had been good friends and spoke to each other every day....."
more at link
http://www.nilesstar.com/2010/03/24/14-year-old-dakotah-eliason-enters-plea/
Emotional testimony
"After taking her place on the stand, Jean Miles recalled her husband Jesse as “a very mild man.”
Discussing the hours prior to the shooting, Miles said she and her grandson had a seemingly uneventful day and watched television and stayed at the home.
Calling her grandson, Eliason, a “very intelligent young man,” Miles became visibly distraught trembling and speaking through tears as she remembered going to sleep around 10:30 p.m. only to hear a popping around 3 a.m., initially assuming it had come from a wood stove in the home. That’s when she said she heard Eliason say, “I just shot Papa.”
“He was on his side,” Miles said of her husband, who slept on the couch in the living room regularly.
“Blood was coming out of his mouth and nose,” she continued as Cotter questioned her about the status of her husband when she found him. “I don’t think he was conscious because he was bleeding so hard.”
Miles said she instructed Eliason to call 911, which he did and he followed his grandmother out into the yard as she watched for first responders.
and
"“You know, at first I didn’t believe that I’d done that,” he says on the video. Inside a small interview room, Suarez sits across from Eliason and attempts to get a clearer understanding of what was going through the boy’s mind.
“When I grabbed the gun, I – it was just this whole thing going on inside my head,” he said...."
and
“You ever hear people talk about voices in their head?” he said. He tried to explain. “It’s not so much that but multiple personalities,” Eliason said, adding there are good and bad sides to a person.
“The good doesn’t always win,” he said....."
and
"There were some rather surprising elements to Suarez’s questioning. He asked Eliason if he had been a friend with Alex Wentz, the 15-year-old Niles High School student who died suddenly last month. Eliason said he and Wentz had been good friends and spoke to each other every day....."
more at link