MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3

[concentric]

Is sexual molestation a venial or mortal sin?
Is rape a venial or mortal sin?

Where on the sin continuum do they fall? Is there a sin scale for sexual molestation/rape of children?

Or does that not exist?

 

[Jbrown324320]

How do they repent if they committed a murder?

The person is supposed to do whatever the priest tells them to do- it could be say 10 "Our Father" prayers, it could be to volunteer at a charity, it could be anything.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Here is something I found about mortal grave sins. Not much specifically about rape. Just anything done purposefully to someone else. The page says that all sins can be forgiven.
http://www.saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html


In the Bible, St. Paul gives us a list of grave sins. He states that anyone who commits these sins shall not enter the kingdom of God. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-20). Paul also tells the Corinthians, "know you no that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards nor railers, nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). These sins constitute grave matter, and if they are committed willingly and with full consent, constitute mortal sin.

The Church also tells us that the sins of anger, blasphemy, envy, hatred, malice, murder, neglect of Sunday obligation, sins against faith (incredulity against God or heresy), sins against hope (obstinate despair in the hope for salvation and/or presumption that oneself can live without God or be saved by one’s own power) and sins against love (indifference towards charity, ingratitude, and/or hatred of God) also constitute grave matter. This list of grave sins, is based on Jesus Christ’s interpretation of the gravity of the Ten Commandments. Grave sins can be classed as sins against God, neighbor and self, and can further be divided into carnal and spiritual sins (CCC 1853).

 

[Jbrown324320]

Here's another part of it. Pretty confusing.

Four other sins are considered grave also. These sins not only offend God, but men as well. Thus these four sins are called "the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance" and are likewise mortal sins. These grave sins are:

The voluntary murder (Genesis 4:10)
The sin of impurity against nature –Sodomy and homosexual relations (Genesis 18:20)
Taking advantage of the poor (Exodus 2:23)
Defrauding the workingman of his wages (James 5:4)
Finally, the capital sins are also considered grave matter. These sins are vices and are defined as contrary to the Christian virtues of holiness. They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth (acedia).

 

[shergal]

Thanks for the synopsis!!

It the 80 year old woman were showing signs of distress... palor, racing pulse (possible evident in the jugular)... sweating... they might have lay her down to ensure she did not suffer syncope. They may have thought she was having an attack of some sort (panic, anxiety, heart attack, stroke)... and lay her own for her own safety? I'm not sure I could envision her freaking out and requiring a restraint by officers for any reason? Is it possible she has mental health concerns (alzheimers? dementia?) and had an episode of any degree wherein she became a danger to herself or those around her? Anything is possible. It sounds like it was a stressful time for the DR family.

He made it sound like they 'took her down" to the floor because she and his dad were so agitated about LE being there. You'll have to listen when they post it and see what you think.

 

[shergal]

Tonight's TV interview with DR on KARE11: (brief summary for those who couldn't watch - I'm sure it will be posted online by tomorrow.)

She was evidently just walking past his place and he was out by the mailbox and she asked him if they could talk.
----------------------------------
Wonder if she had a mic planted on her or a witness with her? What if he had confessed to the crime during this casual encounter.

According to the synopsis at KARE 11, she ran into him outside his health club, I totally missed that, I thought he said by his mailbox. That would have been bad if he had admitted to something and she was the only witness. I'm sure she just wanted answers and never thought of that.

 

[shergal]

----------------------
Any pedophiles or murderers who are Catholic may go through a long laundry list of spiritual cleansing rituals, then maybe they figure that they are all good, until they sin again...

JMO

I was raised Catholic, and my understanding is priests usually grant you absolution but advise you as your reparation to make what you did right; i.e., say you're sorry to someone you lied to or hurt, return stolen goods, admit to police if you murdered someone, etc.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=875817

Official synopsis article on interview being discussed in above post.

Why does he call it a conspiracy?

"It's a big thing for me. For 21 years of my life it's been revolving around, you might say, around this whole conspiracy thing," said Dan Rassier.

Is he saying that it's not a one-man-job? Why?


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy

Definition of CONSPIRACY
1
: the act of conspiring together
2
a : an agreement among conspirators b : a group of conspirators

 

[Jbrown324320]

I was re-reading the story about Jared's abduction. It says that he was taken to the hospital for tests. I know the perp took his jeans/underwear (he was only wearing snow pants on his lower half after the assault). Would the hospital have gathered trace evidence? Kept his snowpants or shirt? They didn't have DNA back then, so I am not sure what they kept and why. Wouldn't that be awesome if they kept evidence, tested it and came up with a match? Sigh, one can only dream.

 

[Jbrown324320]

I wonder if DR's voice sounds low and gravely after some drinks? Looking at the videos, it sounds gravely, but not so low.

 

[Lotus]

DR stated in the interview that LE asked if he would simply confess so the case could be done with... really? how is that true closure!? I don't buy it that LE would want a confession regardless of DR's actual innocence. If LE did ask him to confess, I'm sure they meant in a sincere way. To me it sounds as though DR is afraid that LE might find something but at the same time (if he did it) he knows they wont find anything because he would have had 5 days to remove all evidence from the farm back in 89'...

 

[Lotus]

I was re-reading the story about Jared's abduction. It says that he was taken to the hospital for tests. I know the perp took his jeans/underwear (he was only wearing snow pants on his lower half after the assault). Would the hospital have gathered trace evidence? Kept his snowpants or shirt? They didn't have DNA back then, so I am not sure what they kept and why. Wouldn't that be awesome if they kept evidence, tested it and came up with a match? Sigh, one can only dream.

I believe LE did collect DNA from Jared and DR could be a match but it wouldn't make any difference because of the statute of limitations that were in place back then. It must be frustrating for LE if DR is a match because that would mean DR likely abducted Jacob but because of legal technicalities they cant do anything about it and they would have to find other ways to link DR to Jacob.
Also I find it interesting that DR doesn't even know the results of the DNA tests because if he was not a match I don't see why LE couldn't confirm it since it wouldn't be implying anyones guilt.

 

[margaret_diane]

I wonder if DR's voice sounds low and gravely after some drinks? Looking at the videos, it sounds gravely, but not so low.

There are many articles I've read on this case where the perp was described by the boys to have a low, gravely voice... almost as if he had a cold.

Perhaps he DID have a cold at the time of the attack? Perhaps it was allergy season? Perhaps the perp intentionally disguised his voice? To be clear, this post is NOT solely regarding DR... ANY perp could have had a cold, allergies, or been clever enough to attempt to change the sound of his voice.

 

[shergal]

I believe LE did collect DNA from Jared and DR could be a match but it wouldn't make any difference because of the statute of limitations that were in place back then. It must be frustrating for LE if DR is a match because that would mean DR likely abducted Jacob but because of legal technicalities they cant do anything about it and they would have to find other ways to link DR to Jacob.
Also I find it interesting that DR doesn't even know the results of the DNA tests because if he was not a match I don't see why LE couldn't confirm it since it wouldn't be implying anyones guilt.

In that interview he stated he didn't even know the results of his lie detector test! Which answers those who were claiming earlier he'd passed.

 

[margaret_diane]

I think I might be able to explain why he might have a file on JW... and why he'd be afraid he might forget things...

If he had a running file on news reports, articles, video news reports etc... then it stands to reason to me that its POSSIBLE he could be continually reviewing these in order to help him ensure that he maintains the same story he always has with LE.

Did anyone else notice that when discussing his files, and boxes of things... and trying to make sure he remembers it all, he commented that he has a file on Europe from '84?? A photo album I could see, a scrapbook / video journal from a trip, these I can say would be considered normal if one visited there.... but why a file on it? What is in THAT file? Might he have encountered someone over there with an interest in a little boy? I recall that the Wetterling family did dispatch a private investigator to Amsterdam at one point, following reports of a Jacob sighting out there, though the PI came up with nothing.

 

[margaret_diane]

I've read that when one talks, if they look down and to the RIGHT, they may be accessing emotions associated with events, or memories of events, or regarding thoughts of an event. Looking down and to the left is a flag that someone may be lying.

I noticed that DR looked down and to HIS LEFT at the end when discussing how he had hope that Jacob could be found alive, and wouldn't it be dreamy....

I can't help but wonder, when he looks down and to the left in those moments, is he lying at all? To whom? Himself? Or the world? Or does he just truly believe in his own heart that there is no hope of finding Jacob alive and just doesn't want to diminish the hope of those closest to Jacob (eg: he may be innocent of all crime in this matter, and believe that Jacob will not be found alive... but may not have the heart to say so, and instead is opting to be sensitive perhaps to the fact that JW's family and friends are watching and still have no definite answers).

Or is this an potentially ominous sign of his guilt in the crime? What do you think it means, if anything?

 

[human]

Margaret Diane-that is interesting about the reason he may keep all of those Jacob items.

It seems to me that his story has changed a lot over the years.

At least the older he gets, the more difficult it will be for him to keep his stories straight.

If he is the one, he will trip up as the memory starts to go.

 

[human]

Back to my Catholic questions.

There are all of those priests that have molested children. How do they repent? They aren't in prison.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Back to my Catholic questions.

There are all of those priests that have molested children. How do they repent? They aren't in prison.

Human,
Only a handful (3 or 4 that I know of) of the worst priest molesters are in prison for molesting children. Most died of old age or the church purposely kept their deeds quiet, shuffled them around to different parishes with no explanation and hoped that the statute of limitations runs out. Others were sent for like a few weeks to a treatment facility in a different state where they molested kids near the treatment facility. Some therapists said they were cured and some said they are high risk to offend again. Most all were placed right back into churches to offend again. Ugly, ugly stories.

 

[chef81]

I've read that when one talks, if they look down and to the RIGHT, they may be accessing emotions associated with events, or memories of events, or regarding thoughts of an event. Looking down and to the left is a flag that someone may be lying.

I noticed that DR looked down and to HIS LEFT at the end when discussing how he had hope that Jacob could be found alive, and wouldn't it be dreamy....

I can't help but wonder, when he looks down and to the left in those moments, is he lying at all? To whom? Himself? Or the world? Or does he just truly believe in his own heart that there is no hope of finding Jacob alive and just doesn't want to diminish the hope of those closest to Jacob (eg: he may be innocent of all crime in this matter, and believe that Jacob will not be found alive... but may not have the heart to say so, and instead is opting to be sensitive perhaps to the fact that JW's family and friends are watching and still have no definite answers).

Or is this an potentially ominous sign of his guilt in the crime? What do you think it means, if anything?

Well personally I don't think it easy to tell someone's guily by their mannerisms, such as looking to the right or left, or making odd statements such as what DR himself seems to be doing. He could just be very nervous in front of a camera, many people are. So I don't really go by all of this. In my true opinion, I don't think DR actually abducted Jacob, but I do believe that there is a good chance he knows who did to some extent. Perhaps he was in his yard that night and maybe bumped into the abductor and was threatned with death if he ever told, who knows? I do believe that if he knows something he needs to be more straight forward and come out with it, because it seems like all he is doing is getting himself into deeper doo doo than what he is already in. I heard on one of the news clips, that he doesn't want to tell LE anymore about what he witnessed that night yet. Why not? So basically if he is innocent and knows nothing, he is doing nothing to clear his name, and if he does indeed know something, he is doing nothing to help out LE.