MO - Corbin Wiederholt, 9 mos, fatally shot by 5yo brother, Elmo, 19 Jan 2015

[MyBelle]

From MyBelle's post:
"....Huge piece of this story is still missing. What also isn't clear is how the 5-year-old got the gun out of the gun safe...." bbm

From http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...killed-n289541
"...Porter told NBC News that he had the pistol for security and target practice and
kept it in a locked case in his bedroom with other guns he uses for sport.
"I set it up behind the long arms. It's always been there. I've never moved it," he said.
It's unclear how the child got into the case, but Porter said it could be opened with a screwdriver or even a random key...."

Gun safe? Locked case? But 5 y/o can open w screwdriver or random key?
I guess g'father defines gun safe differently from some of the rest of us.
Sad, sad, sad,

BBM. Not sure why you are choosing to overlook the fact that it is unknown how the child got access to the locked case. Most things that are locked can be broken into. I seriously doubt the five-year-old is a mini McGyver but if he is that would make this tragedy truly an unforeseen accident.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Well if the safe is so easily opened by a random key it doesn't seem you need to be any size of McGyver to open it.

If grandfather thought the safe was perfectly childproof would he have felt like he needed to forbid the kids from entering the room where it was?

 

[al66pine]

BBM. Not sure why you are choosing to overlook the fact that it is unknown how the child got access to the locked case. Most things that are locked can be broken into. I seriously doubt the five-year-old is a mini McGyver but if he is that would make this tragedy truly an unforeseen accident. JMO

bbm

Not exactly overlooking child's 'unknown' method of access.
Can we agree child got access to the 'locked case' (not the case contents) by walking into bedroom? Not unknown.

Child may have gotten access to guns inside case (the case contents) by---
--- opening case w no lock at all w his fingers (Just hypo, g'father's statement may not have been factual).
--- opening case w unlocked mechanism w his fingers (Just hypo, g'father's statement may not have been factual).
--- opening case w locked mechanism w using screwdriver or random key, per g'father's statement, a possibility.

G'father's stmt implies* that case w that mechanism was approp. way to secure guns. I disagree.
My thread title was "Depends on how you define 'gunsafe' or 'locked case'???"

Using screwdriver or random key to open such a mechanism is not breaking into the case, not displaying McGyver skills, imo,
just a tad more difficult than using fingers to open ordinary dresser drawer or kitchen cabinet.

JM2cts that this was something other than secure, approp gun storage, w a forseeable fail. Others are welcome to disagree.
Maybe we can both hope this news story prompts gun owners to review gun storage practices w an eye toward safety
and can agree that what transpired was a tragedy for all involved.


--------------------------------------------------------
* imply - strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated):

• "the salesmen who uses jargon to imply his superior knowledge"
  http://www.bing.com/search?q=imply&...nversationid=4AA9ADA0B5CE4449B354BC5FC8B8839F

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Or grandfather is simply not admitting that gun wasn't in the cupboard at all but lying openly on his side dresser.

 

[al66pine]

Well if the safe is so easily opened by a random key it doesn't seem you need to be any size of McGyver to open it.

If grandfather thought the safe was perfectly childproof would he have felt like he needed to forbid the kids from entering the room where it was?

Once again, Donjeta, your two sentences eloquently state what it took me several paragraphs to say.
Good to see you here.

 

[daisy7]

The county's child fatality review panel met Wednesday and recommended that no charges be filed in the case against Porter or anyone else.

Read more: http://www.kctv5.com/story/27909485...tally-shot-killed-by-5-year-old#ixzz3PamE7htO

 

[al66pine]

Or grandfather is simplynot admitting that gun wasn't in the cupboard at all but lying openly on his side dresser.

bbm

Yes, a possibility. Most def.


On another note (nbc link): "....withheld by NBC News, Wiederholt said her loss should be a warning to others to protect children from firearms."
Maybe that will prompt -
1. gun owners to review their storage practices and
2. parents asking about guns & storage, before letting their kids play at friends' homes. http://askingsaveskids.org/

 

[MyBelle]

Well if the safe is so easily opened by a random key it doesn't seem you need to be any size of McGyver to open it.

If grandfather thought the safe was perfectly childproof would he have felt like he needed to forbid the kids from entering the room where it was?

The 5-year-old had access to a "random key? please cite a link. The Grandfather may have told the children not to enter his bedroom for any number of reasons. Doesn't make him negligent and it appears the local authorities agree.

The county's child fatality review panel met Wednesday and recommended that no charges be filed in the case against Porter or anyone else.

Porter didn't want to go on camera, but in a pained voice he said he is completely torn up about what happens and he doesn't know how he'll ever get over it.

Read more: http://www.kctv5.com/story/27909485...tally-shot-killed-by-5-year-old#ixzz3PazUGJiX

 

[Donjeta]

You want a link that a child could access a key? Seriously?


If people don't keep even their loaded guns away from children it seems very unlikely that they consider all the keys and screwdrivers and similar objects so dangerous for kids that they make sure that kids won't ever have access to any.

 

[Morag]

This baby is dead and his brother is scarred for life because the grandfather didn't secure the gun. The mother bears some responsibility, also. This case should be prosecuted as criminally negligent homicide.

 

[Concerned Mama]

The county's child fatality review panel met Wednesday and recommended that no charges be filed in the case against Porter or anyone else.

Read more: http://www.kctv5.com/story/27909485...tally-shot-killed-by-5-year-old#ixzz3PamE7htO

Well, I guess that settles the matter, legally. I have no doubt that grandfather is distraught over his negligence leading to his grandson's death. Nobody in that family will ever get over this, I imagine. even the 1 1/2 year old kid who may not understand what's going on now, but will eventually have to confront it.

It sounds like the older boys were told to stay out of the room, but was that because of guns or simply because the youngest boy was sleeping in a playpen in that room? The news reported at first that the gun was on a shelf built into the headboard of the bed. I'm having a difficult time picturing what this shelf/gun safe looked like, but it doesn't matter now, since it sounds like there will be no charges filed.

I wonder how many more instances of children accessing loaded firearms and killing someone it will take for people to stop saying, Gosh, they were such a responsible family or Gee, we never would have imagined something like this could happen?

eta: One of the articles mentioned that most people in that area of Missouri own firearms, so if nothing else comes out of this tragedy, maybe at least people in that area will make sure their guns are not accessible to children.

:sheesh:

 

[al66pine]

.... The news reported at first that the gun was on a shelf built into the headboard of the bed. I'm having a difficult time picturing what this shelf/gun safe looked like....:sheesh:

bbm sbm

Difficulty picturing? Me too.
Esp. as MSM said (my paraphrasing*) g'father said the handgun was just behind the long guns, and he never moved it.

Does any ordinary headboard accommodate long guns & have a locking mechanism?
I imagine a sleuther could find one online, but appears not relevant now. JM2cts.
___________________________
ETA:
*. "....pistol for security and target practice and kept it in a locked case in his bedroom with other guns he uses for sport.
"I set it up behind the long arms. It's always been there. I've never moved it," he said."
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...killed-n289541.

 

[al66pine]

The 5-year-old had access to a "random key? please cite a link. .... Read more: http://www.kctv5.com/story/27909485...tally-shot-killed-by-5-year-old#ixzz3PazUGJiX

bbm sbm

Sorry, no link re this child's access to random key at that home that day.

Imo, not far fetched that child w/h/access to either random key or screwdriver.
Imo, seems more likely than not, that either a random key or screwdriver would be present in most homes.

W g'father* saying either one could open case, it it poss other implements could open it too, e.g., nail file, nutpick, penknife, tweezer, etc.
JM2cts.

__________________________________________________________________
From http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...killed-n289541
"...but Porter said it could be opened with a screwdriver or even a random key...."

 

[daisy7]

Another child has died because his parents didn't safely store their gun Why am I not surprised that they will not face criminal charges?

Police say the boy was at his home in the 1600 block of Norton Street when he went into a bedroom where his father was sleeping and found a handgun. The boy's mother told police she was awake in the living room when the boy went to the same room as his father to go to bed.

The mother told police approximately 10 minutes later she heard a single gunshot. The boy's father awoke to find his son injured from a gunshot wound to the head.

Emergency personnel pronounced the toddler dead at the scene. The father told police he didn't think the child knew where he kept the gun.

(snip)

The Berrien County Prosecutor's Office reviewed the investigation and no criminal charges were authorized.

http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/poli...-benton-township-accidental-shooting/30887432

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Mom, 24, and grandfather of baby accidentally shot by 5-year-old brother will not face negligence charges in tragic death where revolver left in same room as playpen

Corbin Wiederholt, 9 months, was shot while in his Elmo, Missouri, playpen

Brother, 5, was holding a loaded .22 caliber revolver when it fired

Boy's mother, Alexis, 24, had no idea the weapon was in her father's home

Prosecutor said weapon, stored in headboard, was not in plain sight

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...revolver-left-room-playpen.html#ixzz3UV5t2VTn

 

[Sonya610]

Difficulty picturing? Me too.
Esp. as MSM said (my paraphrasing*) g'father said the handgun was just behind the long guns, and he never moved it.

Does any ordinary headboard accommodate long guns & have a locking mechanism?
I imagine a sleuther could find one online, but appears not relevant now. JM2cts.

I have never heard of a headboard used to store long guns, it would not be practical at all imo. Most concealed long gun racks are built into book cases or entertainment centers.

I personally don't think Grandad even thought about locking the guns up, I think he likely expected the kids to stay out of his room and didn't worry much about it. Lots of gun cabinets/boxes are strictly used to protect the weapons and help control the humidity; they are not for security.

 

[MyBelle]

Another child has died because his parents didn't safely store their gun Why am I not surprised that they will not face criminal charges?

Police say the boy was at his home in the 1600 block of Norton Street when he went into a bedroom where his father was sleeping and found a handgun. The boy's mother told police she was awake in the living room when the boy went to the same room as his father to go to bed.

The mother told police approximately 10 minutes later she heard a single gunshot. The boy's father awoke to find his son injured from a gunshot wound to the head.

Emergency personnel pronounced the toddler dead at the scene. The father told police he didn't think the child knew where he kept the gun.

(snip)

The Berrien County Prosecutor's Office reviewed the investigation and no criminal charges were authorized.

http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/poli...-benton-township-accidental-shooting/30887432

Can you point out the signs that prosecutors have ignored? I continued to be amazed at those who decide they are more knowledgeable than anyone else.

 

[daisy7]

Can you point out the signs that prosecutors have ignored? I continued to be amazed at those who decide they are more knowledgeable than anyone else.

I would hope that a child finding an unsecured loaded gun and killing themself or another person, especially another child, would result in a negligence to children charge, at the very least.

I continue to be amazed that some peeps think it's OK for parents not to be criminally charged when their negligence of storing a gun properly results in injury or death. Seems it's all about having guns for some, and the number of kids dying of "accidents" don't matter.

JMO.

 

[jjenny]

I would hope that a child finding an unsecured loaded gun and killing themself or another person, especially another child, would result in a negligence to children charge, at the very least.

I continue to be amazed that some peeps think it's OK for parents not to be criminally charged when their negligence of storing a gun properly results in injury or death. Seems it's all about having guns for some, and the number of kids dying of "accidents" don't matter.

JMO.

Well, they can't charge the mother because the mother didn't even know her father had guns in the house.

 

[daisy7]

Well, they can't charge the mother because the mother didn't even know her father had guns in the house.

I don't believe that for one minute. She said he always had guns in the house growing up, so they magically went away when her kids were there?