Jojefos
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*Quite easily and heavily taxed. Left out an important word there.
Found Deceased MO - John Forsyth, 49, doctor, Mercy ER Clinic, Cassville, 21 May 2023 *car found* #2
- Thread starter TwinkieDefense
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Charlot123
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Yes, but cash requires personal presence. Bitcoin doesn't. At least, I was always wondering if not only big-time arm dealers but small vendors could use it too. Just my opinion.
Lovequestions
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Elizabeth VanMetre ky3 post!
Interesting. These kinds of videos (showing the path where the victim probably traveled before their disappearance/death) are very helpful. The area where his car was parked is much more remote than it appeared in photos. It's very far from any road and from the rest of the park. It really does look like a place where someone would abandon his car. It could also be a remote spot he chose to have a meeting with someone. My first impression was the former - a place where someone left his car after kidnapping him and taking him somewhere else.
Elizabeth has a rather long comment about the status of the investigation in the comment section, but the video autoplayed to a new one before I could finish reading it. She commented that Benton Co, AR has said they won't release the results of his AR or toxicology until the investigation is completed. So it seems this case is locked up from the public (and probably the family, too) until it's solved or goes cold. JMO, that's not a good sign. I hope it's solved, but I'm not optimistic. JMO
Lovequestions
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DeDee
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From the link -- Dr Forsyth had sought to leave Mercy Cassville and applied at Mercy Springfield ER.
jellybean96
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So reading that post, it seems the family might be leaning towards a coverup (presumably with LE doing the coverup). From what I gather, they are coming to that possible conclusion because no one ID his body. Is there other details that I am missing that lends them to be entertaining the coverup idea?
No shade to the family, but it feels weird that they seem upset (not the right word, but cant think of a better word) that LE identified the body. Visual ID by LE is an acceptable way to ID a body if the body is not too deteriorated. Sure, dental records and finger prints are a better way, but the fact that those didn't happen isn't sending up alarm bells to me. So are there other 'red flags' for a possible coverup that I am not recalling?
I mean, if they really think that a coverup is happening, you can always exhume the body to make sure it's him and not rocks.
While it may not be illegal, its not the most scientific way to identify a deceased person, especially one that might have been the victim of foul play. The standard would be family ID, fingerprints, dental records or DNA. IANAL, JMO
When was the last time anyone checked NAMUS and found a record of a recently discovered, unidentified body where LE didn't at least have dental or fingerprint records? Taking fingerprints is usually standard procedure for an autopsy, same with dental records. Is this an indication that the autopsy wasn't thorough?
JMO, lacking this important information, the family is justified in being concerned. Did other LE do a thorough job of examining Dr. Forsyth's car, luxury RV home, etc. Did they look for fingerprints, hair, DNA, etc? I hope so, but I'm beginning to wonder.
ETA: Are any of the popular true crime podcasts covering this? Just curious, I'm so busy these days, I don't have time to listen to many of them.
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megs1477
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Family identification is actually becoming much less common. Especially for traumatic deaths and those with decomp involved. Coroners use other means, such as photographs, especially of tattoos and other identifying marks to prevent family members from having to participate as this can have a long-lasting negative impact on that person. Dental records and DNA are also used when visual identification can’t be made. There aren’t set laws for this, it is based on procedures of each office.
If you Google procedures for identifying a body, many different jurisdictions come up in the results with similar standards. Given this, I would not think it strange that the family was not asked to identify the body.
jellybean96
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This is where I come down on it all. If they were breaking laws, thats one thing. But since it's up to each office, so what they did isn't wrong. It just seems weird to me that they'd make such a big jump to LE having a coverup and not just some criminal killed their brother.
It’s not so much that the family wasn’t allowed to see the body, it’s the questions surrounding what method they did use. Just identifying by looking a a tattoo implies they didn’t use any other means of identification, such as fingerprinting, dental x rays or DNA. When the COD indicates possible foul play, its even more important to adhere to high standards.
A casual approach by an ME or coroner to determining the identity of a murder victim is the kind of thing that can hinder the states ability to convict a killer. Did they take the same casual approach to determining time and cause of death, evidence the killer left behind? It’s the kind of sloppiness that can leave killers free to victimize others. Let’s hope that’s not the case here, but I can understand the family’s concern. It’s how cold cases occur.
JMO
Is it really the whole family who thinks this, or just one or two relatives? Are the relatives immediate family (IIRC there was something from a cousin).
Most families will not be united on something like this, and certainly won't be united in what should be said to a journalist.
JMO
jellybean96
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Well, the cousin + his brother were the ones in the interview so thats all we can *for sure* say were entertaining the idea of a coverup. It just seems like such a long, stretching jump to me, but I am not in their shoes.
DeDee
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Yes, all death investigations should be conducted properly. There is no reason to believe a proper ID of the good doctor was not performed in Arkansas when the body underwent autopsy. Some of the fam was skeptical from the beginning when the Sheriff prematurely announced there was no foul play. I don't think they buried rocks but the Doctor didn't look the same after spending 8 days in a lake.
A lady recently found in Jordan Lake, NC was IDed after officials had no idea who she was at the time of her body being discovered. She was IDed via fingerprints. However, there are multiple ways to ID a person; such as distinctive markings, scars, tattoos, dental xrays, teeth, dna, implants, etal. Fingerprints are the most common method and take the least amount of time.
Does the state of Missouri require physicians to be fingerprinted? Apparently not, according to the Federation of State Medical Boards. Maybe Mercy Hospital requires fingerprinting as I recall most all medical professionals pass criminal background checks. jmhoo
JMO, I trust the family and the news reporter on this case. I suspect its not just a matter of the coroner(?) not allowing anyone in the family to ID their brother's body. It's also a question of how he was ID'd and whether the autopsy was conducted in a way that will allow LE to successfully prosecute his killer, if foul play was involved.
I'm trying to recall if there's been a case I followed here in which so much time has passed before investigators revealed if the deceased was a victim of foul play, accident/illness or suicide. It does seem unusual they stated that the AR results would only be released when the case is closed. ????? That's unusual and the family has a right to be concerned about it.
BTW, Benton County, AR does have a Coroner, not a Medical Examiner. Just some unrelated trivia - Benton County is the home of Walmart's corporate heaquarters.
Home - Coroner
Coroner’s Office The Coroner reports all County deaths and performs an investigation. The one exception is natural cause hospital deaths (within a minimum of a 24 hour stay). Are you looking for death certificates? Are you looking for staff contacts? Do you have a question?
bentoncountyar.gov
The coroner's office doesn't have any MDs on staff, but they do have a retired CNA, and PHD forensic RN.
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Brown bear
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I had heard that some relatives wondered if the body had been identified correctly, but I don’t believe the theory was very widespread.
It's odd the Coroner hasn't announced whether the COD was suicide, accident, illness, foul play, etc. and that the Coroner is not a physician and that the office has no physicians on staff. JMO I could be wrong, but it seems that might be cause for concern, especially if Dr Forsyth was a victim of foul play, with the possibility high quality forensic evidence is needed when of one or more perps go to trial.
ETA: JMO, it seems reasonable for the family to ask for a few more details about how COD was determined and whether your brother was the victim of foul play. If his death was the result of foul play, there likely are details they won't divulge until an arrest is made, but basic information is standard.
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IMO, it's not odd, it's because LE are still investigating that exact issue.
JMO, but either:
- the manner of death can't be conclusively proven solely by the autopsy (there was a gunshot wound), therefore police are trying to trace the exact sequence of events, since homicide can be staged as suicide and suicide can be staged as homicide.
Or
- LE are investigating homicide and, to aid their investigation, don't want to reveal any evidence, even to the family, because they don't want the potential murderer(s) to know what they know.
I can think of cases that fall under both scenarios, where it was a full year before the ruling on the nature of the death was released, namely Rita Maze, and Kouri Richens.
JMO
Wallendo
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Very few coroners are physicians. In most jurisdictions, the coroner's job is to oversee the LE investigation and medical reports from the necropsy. It is a legacy from the British system where the coroner represents the crown (hence the name Coroner from the Latin for crown) to make sure victims were protected from potentially corrupt sheriffs and other local officials.
Thanks. Yes, I know that. Most counties have moved to a system of electing or appointing MEs.