MO - Lindsay, 8, & Samuel Porter, 7, Independence, 6 June 2004

Just read this thread for the first time. How sad - my gut feeling is certainly that if the father's not talking the kids are unlikely to be alive.

I fed Princeton, MI into the Topozone site and it came back with Marquette County - can anybody tell me if that's right? If the father was telling the truth and if he wanted to hide bodies somewhere, the whole area is absolutely riddled with mines. It would be almost impossible to find someone down there. Also a river and a convenient lake, as well as a pit and presumably a few quarries. Can't see any farms obviously marked. I shall switch to the Terraserver to see what the photos look like. USGS will also tell what sort of waterbodies are there - eg whether they're "bottomless", "seasonal" etc but the choices he'd have had if that was what he was after look almost endless. It seems to me that he's thinking "no bodies, no proof". But you can bring murder charges without a body, can't you? I'm sure it's been done before.

[ETA - A blow-up of the area on Terraserver clearly shows plenty of cultivated land but very little apparent habitation. Shouldn't be too difficult to find the "friend's" family's farm if she's finally telling the truth. Finding anything hidden on that land is going to be an entirely different problem, IMHO. Wetlands shows two huge ballast pits with excavated bottoms and a couple of forested areas with waterbodies in the middle, as well as many smaller areas of water, some with "unconsolidated bottoms" (eg cobble/gravel/sand/mud, presumably as a result of mining/quarrying). Looks like a nightmarish area to have to search to me. Anybody able to get a fix on where exactly this farm might be - can the "friend's" family name be found and linked to an address in the area?]
 
Scorpion said:
Just read this thread for the first time. How sad - my gut feeling is certainly that if the father's not talking the kids are unlikely to be alive.

I fed Princeton, MI into the Topozone site and it came back with Marquette County - can anybody tell me if that's right? If the father was telling the truth and if he wanted to hide bodies somewhere, the whole area is absolutely riddled with mines. It would be almost impossible to find someone down there. Also a river and a convenient lake, as well as a pit and presumably a few quarries. Can't see any farms obviously marked. I shall switch to the Terraserver to see what the photos look like. USGS will also tell what sort of waterbodies are there - eg whether they're "bottomless", "seasonal" etc but the choices he'd have had if that was what he was after look almost endless. It seems to me that he's thinking "no bodies, no proof". But you can bring murder charges without a body, can't you? I'm sure it's been done before.

[ETA - A blow-up of the area on Terraserver clearly shows plenty of cultivated land but very little apparent habitation. Shouldn't be too difficult to find the "friend's" family's farm if she's finally telling the truth. Finding anything hidden on that land is going to be an entirely different problem, IMHO. Wetlands shows two huge ballast pits with excavated bottoms and a couple of forested areas with waterbodies in the middle, as well as many smaller areas of water, some with "unconsolidated bottoms" (eg cobble/gravel/sand/mud, presumably as a result of mining/quarrying). Looks like a nightmarish area to have to search to me. Anybody able to get a fix on where exactly this farm might be - can the "friend's" family name be found and linked to an address in the area?]

Scorpion, the family friend (Lisa Adkins or Atkins) graduated there and has family there...wouldn't know what their names might be because that is probably her married name.
I also heard her (Lisa) say that the dad had a favorite fishing camping place and that the police should look there. Could she (Lisa) be trying to tell the cops and Mom that is where to look for the bodies? Lisa is very deceptive and uncooperative imo.
 
From the Crime Library

excerp: interesting info

Tina visited Dan at the jail and asked him where her children were. She told authorities that "He keeps saying 'The kids are right there. Why can't you find them?' " When Tina asked Dan why he was doing this and when would she get the children back, she said he would reply "The only way I can hurt you is to keep the children from you. You'll never see them again." Dan Porter still refuses to cooperate with law enforcement authorities and remains under arrest. The FBI is aiding in the investigation of the case. On June 25th Dan was indicted on two counts of parental kidnapping and federal charges of felonious possession of firearms.


sounds to me like it's to late...jmo
 
samuel_lindsey_porter.jpg
 
kanasacity.com
Prosecutor Sanders goes on TV in Porter case

By JOE ROBERTSON

The Kansas City Star


The woman said that Daniel Porter told her by phone during that June weekend that the children were in the Princeton area in Mercer County, just north of Grundy County where Porter was later arrested.

Scorpion, does that narrow it down any?
 
Investigators said that they founnd a backpack along Highway 6 outside Trenton. The clothing articles were apparently what the children packed with them.
 
www.kansascity.com
Search for missing children focuses on Grundy County

By LINDA MAN The Kansas City Star


Authorities today are searching Grundy County to find two missing Independence children after police found the children's duffle-bag of clothing.

Independence police said the bag was found in a wooded area, three to five miles east of Trenton, Mo., and south of Missouri 6.

Authorities are using search dogs to comb wooded areas near Trenton. In an earlier search, Independence police earlier found four weapons — three handguns and one long gun — in the Missouri River at La Benite Park in Sugar Creek. Police said one weapon was registered to Porter. Police are uncertain whether the weapon had been discharged.

this article is from June 04
 
Is there any truth to 'truth serum'? :confused:

If so, for the life of me, I don't understand why there hasn't been more use of it in situations like this!! :banghead:

Get a judge or a jury to approve the use of it in every case if that silences the ney-sayers but for crying out loud use whatever means to extract some truth from a slime ball excuse of a father like this!!! :furious: :furious:



Sadly, I too fear there isn't much hope but I will keep praying and checking back here.



An aside.... has anyone that checks back on the missing people threads thought about helping to do whatever you can? Maybe, just maybe, there are a few posters you can hang up for a family missing someone from across the country that can't possibly cover every square inch themselves!!



I am amazed at the compassion I find in the missing peoples forums but if you're on the fence about offering to help just do it!



Hugs
Jubie
 
richandfamous said:
Scorpion, the family friend (Lisa Adkins or Atkins) graduated there and has family there...wouldn't know what their names might be because that is probably her married name.

Well, hopefully LE/the press are onto it.

richandfamous said:
I also heard her (Lisa) say that the dad had a favorite fishing camping place and that the police should look there. Could she (Lisa) be trying to tell the cops and Mom that is where to look for the bodies? Lisa is very deceptive and uncooperative imo.

Thanks for that info, Rich and Famous. I'll go back and see what the maps turn up. Unfortunately, that's all I can do. At first I thought the dad might frequent the wooded smaller lakes, but then I zoomed out very slightly and saw that there's a massive collection of large lakes just to the southeast of Princeton, which is a far more likely haunt for fishermen. I'll have a hunt round see if there's any sign of a camping area in the vicinity. [ETA: Zooming out just slightly further gave up a significant number of other lakes, but I'm thinking those closest (Miller Lake/Shag Lake and Little Shag Lake) are the likeliest.]

I'm not sure whether this woman can be trusted. And, of course, the father could be lying to her in the first place. But it's giving me something to do!
 
richandfamous said:

Me too - but it's still necessary to find them. If only for their family's peace of mind and the chance to nail the b*st*rd who did this to them, should that be the case.

richandfamous said:
Thanks, Richandfamous - haven't actually done any looking, due to it being feedtime and then there was an interesting programme on.... - just about to start now. What I really need is a fully detailed map, with absolutely everything listed, but I doubt I'll find that over here - Topozone will have to do.
 
lady-eowyn said:
Yep..Willie Crain was convicted here in Florida (where else...and he was also a sex offender with years of history of sexual abuse on children) for the murder of 7 yr old Amanda Brown
Pleased to hear it, Lady E. This guy does sound incredibly cruel.
 
Right - think I've found the right area now! Sorry about that. Comes of not knowing anything about the US! Should have realised that it would be downright impossible to graduate in the middle of nowhere! MI presumably isn't Missouri? The Princeton I'd found was clearly the wrong one. Princeton is, of course, as I'm sure everybody but me here knows - actually right by Trenton. :doh: :bang: :doh:

Back to the drawing board. So, a farm with fishing facilities..... :truce:

OK - not a lot more promising. Princeton itself has two large pit waterbodies - but one seems to incorporate a sewage plant. Again, loads of water. Handy river - of course we don't know what type of fishing this guy prefers. Quarry as well. Even an underground reservoir and a fairground! But no obvious campsites - of course, I'm assuming a camper van or set site, when it could just be a tent pitched anywhere. The river valley actually looks like the best bet for a farm, as the rest of the area's quite uneven. It's getting late here and I'm not going to get much more done tonight. If anybody else wants to take up the reins, do feel free. I'm only an amateur who can read maps reasonably well (as long as I get the right co-ordinates in the first place)!

[ETA - Looks like most of the farming is in that river valley. And, of course, that's roughly the route of Highway (or is that Interstate?) 65 which drives due south to join Highway 6 around Trenton, just where everything Richandfamous mentions was found....]
 
Scorpion said:
Right - think I've found the right area now! Sorry about that. Comes of not knowing anything about the US! Should have realised that it would be downright impossible to graduate in the middle of nowhere! MI presumably isn't Missouri? The Princeton I'd found was clearly the wrong one. Princeton is, of course, as I'm sure everybody but me here knows - actually right by Trenton. :doh: :bang: :doh:

Back to the drawing board. So, a farm with fishing facilities..... :truce:
Princeton Missouri is where Lisa Atkins graduated and the area the dad is referring to I believe. Thanks for looking it up on the topo maps!
 
richandfamous said:
Thanks for looking it up on the topo maps!
Sorry about the delay in getting back on this. I've been waiting for a quiet evening when I could concentrate. The depressing thing is that that whole route between Princeton and Trenton is riddled with water bodies of various sizes - even a few rock quarries (which I never like the look of when it comes to cases like this) - but no obvious farms or fishing facilities. I will have to spend some time with the Terraserver and see what I can pick up. I have come down Interstate 65 (at least I think it's an Interstate) from Princeton to where it meets Highway 6 at Trenton and followed it out to what seems to the be the area where they found the duffle bag. Nothing much in the way of features - it's just a fairly large area of woodland with a creek running through. I guess they could be there. There is, of course, the massive looking Lake Trenton, which comprises two parts, one of which looks man-made in shape. I imagine it's been dredged. I haven't been able to locate Sugar Creek, although I have got a Honey Creek. Anybody point me in the right direction?

There's nothing to really indicate the father's telling the truth in any of this. I imagine he wants to make it as difficult as possible for the mother.

I've done as much as I can tonight. Tomorrow is another day.
 
Scorpion...I just can't believe we haven't heard a word since the Dr Phil show. My gawd, can't they make that woman Lisa and the father talk???
They should have some clue by now!!! This case has me tied in knots
 
richandfamous said:
Scorpion...I just can't believe we haven't heard a word since the Dr Phil show. My gawd, can't they make that woman Lisa and the father talk???
They should have some clue by now!!! This case has me tied in knots
Richandfamous, I agree entirely. However, I guess it's possible they really do know nothing. Where, oh where is that truth serum when we need it?!

Going back to this link, which I hadn't read and have only just come across myself:-

http://www.samandlindsey.org/samandlindsey/Indexm.htm

I was horrified to see:-

"... among the many stories he told police was that he'd sold them to a *advertiser censored* ring...“He's indicated that they're still alive and that basically, he's in control of this,” ."

This is a very sad, sick individual. It seems he'll go to any lengths to hurt their mother.
 

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