Moscow- at least 40 dead, 100 injured in an attack in a music hall. 5 gunman, multiple explosions

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MassGuy said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

Russian forces torture Moscow terror suspect using 80v battery

Photographs show one of the suspected terrorists, named as Shamsuddin Fariddun, lying on a gym floor with his trousers pulled down and wires evidently attached to his groin area.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
The objective, of course, is to have the suspects confess to some kind of Ukrainian involvement, or even the involvement of the US. Guilt or innocence is a matter of the needs of the Russian state.
 
Warwick1991 said:
The objective, of course, is to have the suspects confess to some kind of Ukrainian involvement, or even the involvement of the US. Guilt or innocence is a matter of the needs of the Russian state.
Click to expand...
They tried to link it to Ukraine immediately, with their social media accounts claiming incorrectly, that the license plate on the van they arrived in was an old Ukrainian one. In reality is was Belarusian.

Then Putin claimed that Ukraine had opened a corridor for them to escape through.

This, despite ISIS claiming responsibility, posting (apparently blurred) photos of the attackers beforehand, as well as videos of the attack itself.

But yeah, they’re going to say whatever the Russians want them to say, at least if they want to keep the rest of their body parts.

Fortunately, the rest of the world isn’t buying it, and the damage has been done to Putin as it makes the security apparatus look incredibly weak.
 
30 minutes after the news of the attack hit online news, the official Russian death count was 140. Then, it fell to 40... it was very odd, and now we are hearing ~140 now. It just strikes me as odd.

Sad all around that murder like this continues in our world.
 
AnyNameIWish said:
30 minutes after the news of the attack hit online news, the official Russian death count was 140. Then, it fell to 40... it was very odd, and now we are hearing ~140 now. It just strikes me as odd.

Sad all around that murder like this continues in our world.
Click to expand...
Yes, good catch !

One would like to think this was just misreporting , and not tampering with the press by officials of upper status within the government ?
It's regrettable if Putin was using this tragedy in the worst way possible in his conflict against the Ukraine ?
I have my own opinion on that score.
Omo
 
MassGuy said:
It does look like in this case they’re the right guys, as the images of the attackers released by ISIS matches the men arrested, down to the clothing they’re wearing.
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Sorry but none of any images I have seen, including in the Mirror article that you linked in another post, are remotely clear or close-up enough to determine whether these are the right guys or not. MOO

In the image released by ISIS, the four men are covered from their necks to just under the eyes. I don't think that would stand up in a court of law in the countries whose cases are otherwise discussed on Websleuths. At least, I certainly hope not.

The alleged attackers have confessed (supposedly - we don't know if they have) under torture. How reliable is that? Do the alleged attackers have lawyers? I doubt it.
All MOO.
 
www.thedailybeast.com

Moscow Terror Suspects Plotted Other Massacres in Europe

The alleged culprits behind the deadly shooting in Moscow had ambitions for attacks beyond Russia, according to Western intelligence agencies.
www.thedailybeast.com

The suspects accused of plotting the mass shooting in Moscow last week belong to an ISIS branch that has attempted multiple terrorist attacks inside France, according to the French government.
Click to expand...

“This particular group made several attempts on our own soil,” French President Emmanuel Macron said Monday during a visit to French Guyana, referring to the Afghan branch of ISIS, Islamic State Khorasan or ISIS-K, according to Le Monde.
Click to expand...

I also saw this photo on cnn
www.google.com

March 24 Moscow concert hall attack

Four suspects in the Crocus City Hall attack that left at least 137 people dead in Moscow have been identified and detained.
www.google.com www.google.com
181e5bf3-a579-4f34-af5d-2ea1e6c51e8a.jpg
 
DS2021 said:
www.thedailybeast.com

Moscow Terror Suspects Plotted Other Massacres in Europe

The alleged culprits behind the deadly shooting in Moscow had ambitions for attacks beyond Russia, according to Western intelligence agencies.
www.thedailybeast.com





I also saw this photo on cnn
www.google.com

March 24 Moscow concert hall attack

Four suspects in the Crocus City Hall attack that left at least 137 people dead in Moscow have been identified and detained.
www.google.com www.google.com
View attachment 492852
Click to expand...
Well that explains why France raised its terror alert level to the highest they have. Unfortunately, they have the added issue of hosting the Olympics in Paris this summer...
 
mickey2942 said:
Barbaric. It seems like Russia has not changed much since the reign of terror under Stalin. Find people, accuse them of crimes, torture until they "confess". Sham trial, case closed.

Click to expand...
I do not disagree with you.
Nothing has really changed there !


However in this recent terror attack :

Didn't the killers video themselves for part of the attack, along with some putrid dialogue, praising their 'cause' ?
(I was unable to translate it, but someone else prob. already has done so.)
Their faces were blurred... but I'd imagine the police may have been able to determine if it was the ones who have been arrested ?
They looked similar to the photos that were put out.

In this particular case, I think they caught the right perps.
The ISIS group that claimed responsibility may have photos of the apprehended perps on their website, as they seem to be proud of their atrocities.
(Just speculating)

Although Putin will certainly 'use' this, for his own purposes. :rolleyes:
Omo.
 
seasideForest said:
Sorry but none of any images I have seen, including in the Mirror article that you linked in another post, are remotely clear or close-up enough to determine whether these are the right guys or not. MOO

In the image released by ISIS, the four men are covered from their necks to just under the eyes. I don't think that would stand up in a court of law in the countries whose cases are otherwise discussed on Websleuths. At least, I certainly hope not.

The alleged attackers have confessed (supposedly - we don't know if they have) under torture. How reliable is that? Do the alleged attackers have lawyers? I doubt it.
All MOO.
Click to expand...

I have heard different versions, but even knowing that ISIS is a thing of its own and defies any understanding, they are Muslims, and now is the holy month of Ramadan. AFAIK, war is allowed in Ramadan, Muslims can even break the fast to fight, especially if it is a defensive war. If it is a terrorist act, I'd expect the terrorists to make a certain manifesto, to demand something. ISIS fighters are unafraid to die, would they not make a declaration before death?

These men had no weapons, no "shahid's belts" on them when caught. You'd expect a person ready for martyrdom to blow up himself, the car and the arresting group. This would be the straight way into heaven. Yet it didn't happen.

Everyone seems to connect the terrorist act with ISIS, and ISIS took the responsibility, but I question if the detained are "the same terrorists from ISIS" who killed and burned people in Crocus? Or perhaps ISIS used these people as decoy, and their tortures being caught on camera and posted online is a big plus for ISIS.

Muslim diaspora in Russia is huge. Migrants are the important part of economy in many countries. Muslims working in Russia may get scared and leave, which will be a blow for Russian economy. Plus, now ISIS might unleash true terror in revenge for the torture and the humiliation of their Muslim brothers. Plus, situations like this pave the way for ISIS to recruit new members.

IMHO, ISIS was most likely involved, but I am not quite sure if these four were not used in the dark. We've seen the Chechen fighters, we have seen ISIS. They usually don't allow to capture themselves alive.
 
Backlash in Russia. Tajik nationals who are not actual suspects are being attacked. Same for other Central Asian migrants, that is from Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan.
www.bbc.com

Moscow attack: Central Asian migrants hit by backlash in Russia

Migrants in Russia reported an uptick in xenophobia after Moscow said Tajiks were behind last week's attacks.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Several excerpts from the above article:
"Over the weekend, a migrant-owned business was burnt down in the city of Blagoveshchensk in Russia's Far East, while several migrants were beaten up in Kaluga, a city south west of Moscow."

"Valentina Chupik, a lawyer who works with migrants without charge, told Russian media outlet Mediazona she had received 2,500 reports of 'acts of aggression' against migrants in the two days following the Moscow attack."

"Police broke into migrants' dormitories and hostels across the country and detained several people. More than 30 cases of torture following the arrests were also reported, Ms Chupik said."

There are more instances in the article than only those quoted by me.
Bbm for emphasis.
 
Charlot123 said:
I have heard different versions, but even knowing that ISIS is a thing of its own and defies any understanding, they are Muslims, and now is the holy month of Ramadan. AFAIK, war is allowed in Ramadan, Muslims can even break the fast to fight, especially if it is a defensive war. If it is a terrorist act, I'd expect the terrorists to make a certain manifesto, to demand something. ISIS fighters are unafraid to die, would they not make a declaration before death?

These men had no weapons, no "shahid's belts" on them when caught. You'd expect a person ready for martyrdom to blow up himself, the car and the arresting group. This would be the straight way into heaven. Yet it didn't happen.

Everyone seems to connect the terrorist act with ISIS, and ISIS took the responsibility, but I question if the detained are "the same terrorists from ISIS" who killed and burned people in Crocus? Or perhaps ISIS used these people as decoy, and their tortures being caught on camera and posted online is a big plus for ISIS.

Muslim diaspora in Russia is huge. Migrants are the important part of economy in many countries. Muslims working in Russia may get scared and leave, which will be a blow for Russian economy. Plus, now ISIS might unleash true terror in revenge for the torture and the humiliation of their Muslim brothers. Plus, situations like this pave the way for ISIS to recruit new members.

IMHO, ISIS was most likely involved, but I am not quite sure if these four were not used in the dark. We've seen the Chechen fighters, we have seen ISIS. They usually don't allow to capture themselves alive.
Click to expand...
You seem quite knowledgeable, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but isn't equating Isis as a "Muslim" similar to equating right wing Christian extremists as Christian? I'm guessing Isis members don't follow most Muslim norms. Just a thought.

But all of your comments are relevant and informative.

I also question whether the right 'terrorists' were arrested. Let's face it, Putin's government will try to show quick action, whether the right perps are caught or not.
 
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