Motive: The Truck

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So just out, it's been confirmed that DM had contacted a 3rd person off of either Kijiji or Autotrader, re: the Dodge Ram (though different model, 2500 not 3500) but person missed the call and never did meet him. Wonder how many others? Wonder why LE didn't, at the start, request that anyone who'd been contacted on either of these sites by someone interested in their black Dodge Ram contact them?.........what if other calls were made but not from the burner phone?

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/06/05/hamilton-bosma-third-test-drive.html

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/06/05/hamilton-bosma-third-test-drive.html
 
So just out, it's been confirmed that DM had contacted a 3rd person off of either Kijiji or Autotrader, re: the Dodge Ram (though different model, 2500 not 3500) but person missed the call and never did meet him. Wonder how many others? Wonder why LE didn't, at the start, request that anyone who'd been contacted on either of these sites by someone interested in their black Dodge Ram contact them?.........what if other calls were made but not from the burner phone?

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/06/05/hamilton-bosma-third-test-drive.html

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/06/05/hamilton-bosma-third-test-drive.html

I think I red an article that the truck the day before that was taken on a test drive, was red. So maybe all Dodge Ram truck sellers, in the area, that were contacted should contact police. IMO
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2..._attempted_third_test_drive_of_dodge_ram.html

Ok... this one has what appears to be a new interview with the guy in Etobicoke... or someone is exercising their creative writing muscles. It also indicates that there was a fourth person contacted for a test drive -- but didn't LE just deny this in the recent presser?

The only info I can recall about the Etobicoke guy in all my readings here was that he was big. Never heard about a 'thick accent' before. So, how does this Star reporter know how to contact said Etobicoke guy even though his identity is to be kept secret because it could compromise the investigation?

/confused...
 
Tim Bosma murder: Man says test drive with suspects was ‘not normal’

When two men arrived on foot to test drive his Dodge Ram 2500 pickup in Etobicoke on May 5 in the middle of the day, the man said they asked lots of questions about the 2010 truck, which was listed for about $35,000.
“There was bunch of questions about the car,” he said, including about its 6.7-litre diesel Cummins engine.

Brand new, the value of the engine is $21,000, said Peel Chrysler sales associate James Philpott.
“It’s one of the best diesel engines in the world,” he said. “These types of engines, they’re big bucks.”

A red 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 is registered to Millard Holdings Ltd. — a company Millard inherited — but it doesn’t have the Cummins engine upgrade.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2..._attempted_third_test_drive_of_dodge_ram.html
 
It looks like the motor was the real interest. It would have been nice to get some kind of hint as to what was abnormal about the test drive. Was it their demeanor, certain questions, length of test drive, where they went for the test drive, etc. Or was it this guy just had a gut feeling?

So I gather the idea was to murder somebody in order to steal a 7 year old diesel engine which, were it to be purchased new today would cost abt $21,000, and then pull and transfer said engine into their existing 9 year old vehicle. Am I missing something?
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2..._attempted_third_test_drive_of_dodge_ram.html

Ok... this one has what appears to be a new interview with the guy in Etobicoke... or someone is exercising their creative writing muscles. It also indicates that there was a fourth person contacted for a test drive -- but didn't LE just deny this in the recent presser?

The only info I can recall about the Etobicoke guy in all my readings here was that he was big. Never heard about a 'thick accent' before. So, how does this Star reporter know how to contact said Etobicoke guy even though his identity is to be kept secret because it could compromise the investigation?
/confused...

The reporter must have heard his name read out in court, under the list of names the suspects cannot contact. Even before MS was arrested at least one member of the media tried to contact him for an interview as well, presumably to get info on DM.
 
So I gather the idea was to murder somebody in order to steal a 7 year old diesel engine which, were it to be purchased new today would cost abt $21,000, and then pull and transfer said engine into their existing 9 year old vehicle. Am I missing something?


Being highly involved in the world of the Cummins Turbo Diesel and Diesel Motorsports I can assure you that the motor its self is no where near that price. You can buy a very highly modified, custom built Cummins diesel with double or triple the stock horsepower for those prices! AND you can buy a used engine similar to what was in TB's truck off of Kijiji ironically for 3-5K easily any day of the week!

After reading quite a bit about DM and hearing about his buddies and mechanic friends I am sure they knew well enough that the engine to swap into his Red Hemi Dually was not a 2003+ Cummins engine but a 1994-1998 Cummins. These 94-98 engines are the easiest to swap into any vehicle, make more power than any of the 5.9L or 6.7L engines and are the absolute cheapest to modify. I personally know of 2 original Hemi powered dodge trucks in my area (North of Guelph) that are now powered by 94-98 Cummins engines and I know of 2 shops in the area that have done even more swaps like this in the past (one is in the Guelph area and the other in the Milton area).

My personal opinion like I have said before on this forum is that they stole TB's truck to fill a grocery list of vehicles going over seas. These trucks are highly desirable in Europe, Australia and the Middle East and a simple Google search will show that! Here in North America a truck like TB's will sell for the 25-30K range but in Europe and especially Australia I have heard of guys paying 5x those prices just to get them and then in places like Australia needing to spend another small fortune to Modify the steering to be on the right side instead of the left.

For those that are sceptical about this all...just do a Google search for Ram Turbo Diesel Australia and you will be absolutely amazed at what you see and the prices will make your jaw drop to the floor!!! I just found a similar truck to TB’s listed on a vehicle site for 128K AU!

Stealing TB's truck could have been a very simple, easy way to make some much needed cash to pay off a debt, buy drugs or buy much needed parts for there Baja truck. I have seen many pictures of the Jeep and honestly can't for the life of me figure out why a guy with his money would not be moving up a few classes (there jeep was in one of the lowest entry level classes there was!). I have heard they didn't compete last year...could they have been building a whole new chassis from the ground up and needed some major money to complete there project???
 
The reporter must have heard his name read out in court, under the list of names the suspects cannot contact. Even before MS was arrested at least one member of the media tried to contact him for an interview as well, presumably to get info on DM.

I really don't get how legally these reporters are allowed to do this. i think its very poor reporting imo. I said it before after the other reporter contacted MS. Why possibly jeopardize a trial. in MS case it couldve sent him into hiding.
 

But were any/all the above accused worth a fortune and stealing old engines?

I personally see no reason for a very wealthy guy to want a 7 yr old truck so badly that he is willing to kill for it. Especially when we know that he had a $100,000 budget for the Cobra.... IMO either the truck was not the motive and/or DM did not kill TB.
 
Being highly involved in the world of the Cummins Turbo Diesel and Diesel Motorsports I can assure you that the motor its self is no where near that price. You can buy a very highly modified, custom built Cummins diesel with double or triple the stock horsepower for those prices! AND you can buy a used engine similar to what was in TB's truck off of Kijiji ironically for 3-5K easily any day of the week!

After reading quite a bit about DM and hearing about his buddies and mechanic friends I am sure they knew well enough that the engine to swap into his Red Hemi Dually was not a 2003+ Cummins engine but a 1994-1998 Cummins. These 94-98 engines are the easiest to swap into any vehicle, make more power than any of the 5.9L or 6.7L engines and are the absolute cheapest to modify. I personally know of 2 original Hemi powered dodge trucks in my area (North of Guelph) that are now powered by 94-98 Cummins engines and I know of 2 shops in the area that have done even more swaps like this in the past (one is in the Guelph area and the other in the Milton area).

My personal opinion like I have said before on this forum is that they stole TB's truck to fill a grocery list of vehicles going over seas. These trucks are highly desirable in Europe, Australia and the Middle East and a simple Google search will show that! Here in North America a truck like TB's will sell for the 25-30K range but in Europe and especially Australia I have heard of guys paying 5x those prices just to get them and then in places like Australia needing to spend another small fortune to Modify the steering to be on the right side instead of the left.

For those that are sceptical about this all...just do a Google search for Ram Turbo Diesel Australia and you will be absolutely amazed at what you see and the prices will make your jaw drop to the floor!!! I just found a similar truck to TB’s listed on a vehicle site for 128K AU!

Stealing TB's truck could have been a very simple, easy way to make some much needed cash to pay off a debt, buy drugs or buy much needed parts for there Baja truck. I have seen many pictures of the Jeep and honestly can't for the life of me figure out why a guy with his money would not be moving up a few classes (there jeep was in one of the lowest entry level classes there was!). I have heard they didn't compete last year...could they have been building a whole new chassis from the ground up and needed some major money to complete there project???

So who in your opinion needed the money enough to steal and ship out TB's truck?
 
I really don't get how legally these reporters are allowed to do this. i think its very poor reporting imo. I said it before after the other reporter contacted MS. Why possibly jeopardize a trial. in MS case it could've sent him into hiding.

When you consider that reporters publicize the names of innocent people regularly (they publish names of people charged who are not necessarily guilty of anything) it is easy to jump a step ahead and see that they have no problem stepping out and attempting to interview potential witnesses.

Sadly many innocent people are caught up in media reporting and their lives get messed with because of it. They never report when charges are dropped or dismissed though- which leaves the ones affected by the medias eagerness to point fingers having to deal with the fallout.,
 
So who in your opinion needed the money enough to steal and ship out TB's truck?

I wouldn't say that anyone needed the money, but would either trade there services for another or clear up some sort of debt. Even though DM had money and was proven to spend it on real estate...doesn't mean he spent his "legal" money on the not so legal things in his life or even on his toys.

One thing you have to remember...is its possible DM had ALOT of friends in all forms of life and like many other people (lets pretend you are a plumber that has a good friend thats an electrician and you need some wiring done....what are the odds your "electrical friend" is going to charge you cash for it? Probably an IOU or Trade ya for....)
 
For those that are sceptical about this all...just do a Google search for Ram Turbo Diesel Australia and you will be absolutely amazed at what you see and the prices will make your jaw drop to the floor!!! I just found a similar truck to TB’s listed on a vehicle site for 128K AU!

Thanks so much for providing practical information on this, RyeGuy. Yet, you know, in a way, your commentary also points to the fundamental absurdity of this case and the reason we all keep spinning like tops. If the point was to steal this vehicle and/or its engine, why on earth arrange to have its owner inside at the time. Why not just break into his garage when he wasn't home and steal the damn thing. For that matter, with the sort of mark up you're talking about, why not just buy it flat out and resell it overseas? Lack of money is hardly a prohibitive object in this case. All of that brings us back around to the idea that it wasn't the vehicle or its components we wanted, it was some manic urge to kill an innocent that descended on two or more people. But if that were the motive, why not go thrill kill some poor wasted homeless person that nobody, sadly, might ever get around to missing. Why choose a hale and hearty chap who might put up a fight and win, why go to his house, introduce yourself to his wife (or at least make sure she could identify you later) and why drive off with him - why not just meet up with him at a local parking lot and kidnap or kill him there? We bounce back and forth between the perpetrators here being greedy, immoral rich trash or crazy manic druggies. Something just feels like it's missing. Something right in front of us but we can't or won't see it. Frustrating. What in the name of heaven or hell happened on that horrible night?
 
Thanks so much for providing practical information on this, RyeGuy. Yet, you know, in a way, your commentary also points to the fundamental absurdity of this case and the reason we all keep spinning like tops. If the point was to steal this vehicle and/or its engine, why on earth arrange to have its owner inside at the time. Why not just break into his garage when he wasn't home and steal the damn thing. For that matter, with the sort of mark up you're talking about, why not just buy it flat out and resell it overseas? Lack of money is hardly a prohibitive object in this case. All of that brings us back around to the idea that it wasn't the vehicle or its components we wanted, it was some manic urge to kill an innocent that descended on two or more people. But if that were the motive, why not go thrill kill some poor wasted homeless person that nobody, sadly, might ever get around to missing. Why choose a hale and hearty chap who might put up a fight and win, why go to his house, introduce yourself to his wife (or at least make sure she could identify you later) and why drive off with him - why not just meet up with him at a local parking lot and kidnap or kill him there? We bounce back and forth between the perpetrators here being greedy, immoral rich trash or crazy manic druggies. Something just feels like it's missing. Something right in front of us but we can't or won't see it. Frustrating. What in the name of heaven or hell happened on that horrible night?
i still believe a death video plus the truck. selling the truck with a death video may have been an item on a "shopping list", just a theory imo.
 
I wouldn't say that anyone needed the money, but would either trade there services for another or clear up some sort of debt. Even though DM had money and was proven to spend it on real estate...doesn't mean he spent his "legal" money on the not so legal things in his life or even on his toys.

One thing you have to remember...is its possible DM had ALOT of friends in all forms of life and like many other people (lets pretend you are a plumber that has a good friend thats an electrician and you need some wiring done....what are the odds your "electrical friend" is going to charge you cash for it? Probably an IOU or Trade ya for....)


It's possible but I just don't feel it rings true to me.. although I follow your drift.
 
Thanks so much for providing practical information on this, RyeGuy. Yet, you know, in a way, your commentary also points to the fundamental absurdity of this case and the reason we all keep spinning like tops. If the point was to steal this vehicle and/or its engine, why on earth arrange to have its owner inside at the time. Why not just break into his garage when he wasn't home and steal the damn thing. For that matter, with the sort of mark up you're talking about, why not just buy it flat out and resell it overseas? Lack of money is hardly a prohibitive object in this case. All of that brings us back around to the idea that it wasn't the vehicle or its components we wanted, it was some manic urge to kill an innocent that descended on two or more people. But if that were the motive, why not go thrill kill some poor wasted homeless person that nobody, sadly, might ever get around to missing. Why choose a hale and hearty chap who might put up a fight and win, why go to his house, introduce yourself to his wife (or at least make sure she could identify you later) and why drive off with him - why not just meet up with him at a local parking lot and kidnap or kill him there? We bounce back and forth between the perpetrators here being greedy, immoral rich trash or crazy manic druggies. Something just feels like it's missing. Something right in front of us but we can't or won't see it. Frustrating. What in the name of heaven or hell happened on that horrible night?

But were any/all the above accused worth a fortune and stealing old engines?

I personally see no reason for a very wealthy guy to want a 7 yr old truck so badly that he is willing to kill for it. Especially when we know that he had a $100,000 budget for the Cobra.... IMO either the truck was not the motive and/or DM did not kill TB.

If DM and MS set up meetings with other owners of Dodge Ram 2500/3500 trucks, then the truck was the motive, LE confirmed that TB was targeted for his truck. Now, that engine is worth $20,000 new, so swapping a stolen $20,000 motor into another vehicle is motive enough for me.

Lets not forget some of the evidence found, LE found a number of stolen vehicles in the hanger, the body was found on the farm, and truck was tucked away at DMs mothers house, there is no doubt the truck is the motive. Just the idea that there were stolen vehicles in the hanger tells me that this millionaire or rich guy was not going to buy everything...

I don't really believe the thrill kill idea and I am not so sure the serial killer idea works either as (LB was not found on the farm).

I also do not believe in any way shape or form that the Ram was going to be sold over seas.

Stealing a Ram for the motor, and using that motor in a Baja set up vehicle certainly seems plausible to me.
 
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