Mr.X

[Lacy Wood]

Suicide or accidental death while fooling around is most likely. A killer wouldn't use a pillow muffler and then fire into the lower left side...there would be a great chance of survival from a shot there...he would also most likely fire again to kill if he had a bad first shot. However, many suicides are accidents in the sense the plan was to survive and get sympathy or recognition of their "plight"...the "cry for help." I saw the scene described in a Ramseys-innocent treatment a while back, and suspect it is this type of incident. BTW, a shot to the side would not incapacitate immediately, and he could have put the gun down anywhere...and an intruder had no reason to leave the gun and possible evidence behind, including a victim who could very well survive.

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,

Embalming only replaces the blood in the body. Everything else decays.

I don't think that is correct BC. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and we know that body parts can be preserved for decades in formadehyde.

My daughter's friend is a med student and we were discussing this (ahem - blushes) at lunchtime today. The med students meet their cadaver pretty much straight away when they start their course and they have the cadaver for one year when it is returned to the family for burial. The cadaver is embalmed prior to use for dissection so that it will remain well preserved for the year.

A friend of our family left her body to medical science. I think it's a pretty good cause. However, I think if I was going to do it, I'd leave my body to medical research rather than medical science - having heard some tales of the students melarkying with the cadavers. OTOH, it might be pretty cool to know that when you died, you'd get to hang around with a bunch of daft students for a year afterwards....

 

[Jayelles]

Suicide or accidental death while fooling around is most likely. A killer wouldn't use a pillow muffler and then fire into the lower left side...there would be a great chance of survival from a shot there...he would also most likely fire again to kill if he had a bad first shot. However, many suicides are accidents in the sense the plan was to survive and get sympathy or recognition of their "plight"...the "cry for help." I saw the scene described in a Ramseys-innocent treatment a while back, and suspect it is this type of incident. BTW, a shot to the side would not incapacitate immediately, and he could have put the gun down anywhere...and an intruder had no reason to leave the gun and possible evidence behind, including a victim who could very well survive.

If he really wanted to die, maybe he muffled the shot so that no-one would come too quickly and maybe save him.

 

[BlueCrab]

I don't think that is correct BC. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and we know that body parts can be preserved for decades in formadehyde.

Jayelles,

Formaldehyde (actually a solution of formaldehyde and other chemicals) pumped into the ateries to replace the blood is the main process of embalming. However, formaldehyde is also pumped into the main body cavities such as the lungs, intestines, etc., to prevent gasses from forming due to decay. The rest of the body, such as the skin, is treated only cosmetically for purposes of viewing in the casket.

 

[tipper]

​

http://www.funerals.org/faq/embalm.htm
​

Facts about Embalming
​

1. Embalming is rarely required by law. The Federal Trade Commission and many state regulators require that funeral directors inform consumers that embalming is not required except in certain special cases. Embalming is required when crossing state lines from Alabama, Alaska, and New Jersey. Three other states — Idaho, Kansas, and Minnesota — require embalming when a body is shipped by common carrier.​

2. Embalming provides no public health benefit, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Canadian health authorities. Hawaii and Ontario forbid embalming if the person died of certain contagious diseases. Many morticians have been taught, however, that embalming protects the public health, and they continue to perpetrate this myth.​

3. Embalming does not preserve the human body forever; it merely delays the inevitable and natural consequences of death. There is some variation in the rate of decomposition, depending on the strength of the chemicals and methods used, and the humidity and temperature of the final resting place.​

4. Ambient temperature has more affect on the decomposition process than the time elapsed after death, whether or not a body has been embalmed. In a sealed casket in above-ground entombment in a warm climate, a body will decompose very rapidly.​

5. Embalming is a physically invasive process in which special devices are implanted, and chemicals and techniques are used to give an appearance of restful repose. The normal waxy-white color of a dead body is replaced with a more life-like tone by the use of dyes in the embalming fluid.​

6. Embalming chemicals are highly toxic. Embalmers are required by OSHA to wear a respirator and full-body covering while embalming. Funeral home effluent, however, is not regulated, and waste is flushed into the common sewer system or septic tank.​

[...]

 

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,

Formaldehyde (actually a solution of formaldehyde and other chemicals) pumped into the ateries to replace the blood is the main process of embalming. However, formaldehyde is also pumped into the main body cavities such as the lungs, intestines, etc., to prevent gasses from forming due to decay. The rest of the body, such as the skin, is treated only cosmetically for purposes of viewing in the casket.

I guess the university cadavers are also refridgerated but they do have to stay good for a year whilst the students dissect them. I'm sure they aren't working on rotting corpses. That would be a serious health risk.

 

[Toltec]

How in the world would Helgoth know things about the Ramseys? "Use that good Southern common sense", etc...

Helgoth had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet.

 

[Nehemiah]

I don't think that is correct BC. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and we know that body parts can be preserved for decades in formadehyde.

My daughter's friend is a med student and we were discussing this (ahem - blushes) at lunchtime today. The med students meet their cadaver pretty much straight away when they start their course and they have the cadaver for one year when it is returned to the family for burial. The cadaver is embalmed prior to use for dissection so that it will remain well preserved for the year.

A friend of our family left her body to medical science. I think it's a pretty good cause. However, I think if I was going to do it, I'd leave my body to medical research rather than medical science - having heard some tales of the students melarkying with the cadavers. OTOH, it might be pretty cool to know that when you died, you'd get to hang around with a bunch of daft students for a year afterwards....

My oldest son is a med student and just finished the cadaver part last year. He said that none of their cadavers were embalmed. The blood was drained and they were preserved in a formaldehyde-type solution. Each time they worked on the cadavers, they had to spray them down with the solution. The cadavers stayed in fairly good shape. Most of these people were homeless, with no family identifying the bodies, and hence, their bodies were donated to the med school. (probably why they were never embalmed)

 

[Jayelles]

My oldest son is a med student and just finished the cadaver part last year. He said that none of their cadavers were embalmed. The blood was drained and they were preserved in a formaldehyde-type solution. Each time they worked on the cadavers, they had to spray them down with the solution. The cadavers stayed in fairly good shape. Most of these people were homeless, with no family identifying the bodies, and hence, their bodies were donated to the med school. (probably why they were never embalmed)

Oh MY! I don't think the European Court of Human Rights would allow that to happen here.... I don't think a body can be researched upon unless the person signed a consent form. Maybe I'm wrong.

Homeless people do get practiced upon at the Dentistry School and Foot Schools though. We have two schemes - NHS and Private. There is a terrible shortage of NHS dentists and chiropodists, but anyone can go to the Universities and get free treatment by supervised students for free.

I'm probably using the word "embalming" incorrectly. I used it to describe the process of draining the blood and replacing it with a formaldehyde solution. I know there's more involved in what undertakers do.

You must be very proud to have a son at Med School

 

[Nehemiah]

Oh MY! I don't think the European Court of Human Rights would allow that to happen here.... I don't think a body can be researched upon unless the person signed a consent form. Maybe I'm wrong.

You must be very proud to have a son at Med School

He said that they keep a cloth over the face so as not to have to look at it. That sounds very sad. One of the women cadavers was about my age, sadder still.

Yes, I'm proud. Thanks for bringing up the topic--it gave me an opportunity to boast. LOL

 

[Jayelles]

He said that they keep a cloth over the face so as not to have to look at it. That sounds very sad. One of the women cadavers was about my age, sadder still.

Yes, I'm proud. Thanks for bringing up the topic--it gave me an opportunity to boast. LOL

So you should be proud. I think that's great. It says a lot for you. It's very difficult to get into Med School here - only the creme de la creme de la creme make it and I think it takes good parenting to enable a young person to get the achievements and have the confidence to move forward in that direction.

 

[Camper]

Great postings, Nehemiah, Jayelles, BlueCrab.

Nehemiah, what a wonderful work your son is taking on. My nephew is a childrens oncology doctor, spent many years at St. Judes.

Hi to Toltec, I am leaning your way on this Mr. X.

Tipper, interesting information.

The seeming facts of Helgoth and friends, seems to be lacking any MAJOR connection to JonBenet in any way.

I Googled to see just how many exhumations occur in America in a given year or time frame, to no avail. Rare except in unusual mass killings etc.

What I suspect to be even more rare, with no substantiated proof would be, a deceased person being exhumed to prove that a 'stun gun' would have been used in some part in causing their death.

Here is a link that covers famous exhumations, and what happened to some of the exhumed 'famous persons' parts. Interesting reading! It calls up some legal ramifications involved as well.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020060


.

 

[capps]

Camper,

Interesting link!

 

[ziggy]

Regardless of whether he was involved in the Ramsey murder or not, (I think not for the record) it just bugs the crap out of me that his death was ruled a suicide after looking at the crime scene pics and thinking about the facts. Anyoe else? It just doesn't sit right...like other posters have said.

 

[Rupert]

Regardless of whether he was involved in the Ramsey murder or not, (I think not for the record) it just bugs the crap out of me that his death was ruled a suicide after looking at the crime scene pics and thinking about the facts. Anyoe else? It just doesn't sit right...like other posters have said.

I totally concur, it bugs me too. Also, like Toltec, I too do not see Helgoth likely referring to "southern common sense".

BUT, Helgoth's dna did not match anyway. So maybe there was someone else. Maybe that someone set Helgoth up, regardless IDI or RDI.

Oh well, maybe there were alot of hikers in hi-tech Boulder wearing the same boots and walking about with all kinds of stun guns. Sounds like support for the intruder scenario.

 

[Tricia]

There was no intruder. Patsy wrote the note. As to what happened? That we may never know.

 

[Tricia]

Well, I saw the Tracy Mills documentary Sunday night on Fact & Movie. I was astounded, if in fact it presents the truth. I looked up the previous thread and think this should be revived.

1. Helgoth was obviously murdered. The crime photo shows his gun to the right while the shot was from the left and the shot was through a pillow used as a silencer.

2. In the photo was a stun gun and hi-tech boots with the same mud markings stated as in the Ramsey cellar.

3. A couple of interviews, not just with Kenady, stated that Helgoth and his pal were into Ninja and stalked. There were a number of break-ins near the Ramseys with little taken and later one where the intruder wore dark clothing like a Ninja. The Ransom Note led everyone to think that it must be someone close to the family, if not within the family. But if you're a Ninja and visited that home many times, then you could have learned alot about the family, and wrote that note. That would explain alot of things.

Let's see, Ninja, Japanese, German, Nazi, Nietzche, Leopold & Loeb.

Regardless of JonBenet, who murdered Helgoth? Was it Mr.X? Or was it another Mr.Y? Did they really check out Mr.X? Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Rupert,

Please check out the information and how Michael Tracey was exposed for his totally fraudulant crock that you saw. Please read everything here.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=249

Thanks to several dedicated and honest people on this forum we were able to show just how much Michael Tracey lied.

I did hear through the grapevine that Mr. Tracey received a lot of heat for trying to frame an innocent man who was never a suspect.

Michael Tracey has all the honesty of a drunken used car salesman. He is a pig IMO.

 

[Rupert]

Rupert,

Please check out the information and how Michael Tracey was exposed for his totally fraudulant crock that you saw. Please read everything here.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=249

Thanks Tricia. I checked it out. In fact I had read much of it before I saw the "crockumentary". The Tracy thing sounded very compelling. Who knows?

All I know as a layman, is that if it was a suicide, he shot himself with his arm across his chest pointing the gun back through the pillow. Why would anyone do that? That is weird. Tracy didn't make that up. Then, I guess the recoil made his arm reflexively pull back to the right and the gun fell to his right side.

 

[Camper]

At this point and time in my life, I am forgetting more than I ever knew about the departed Mr. Helgoth.

Do WE know if the hi tec shoes were in fact HIS shoes? WE probably donot know if HIS dna were IN the shoes do WE?


.

 

[Tricia]

Thanks Tricia. I checked it out. In fact I had read much of it before I saw the "crockumentary". The Tracy thing sounded very compelling. Who knows?

All I know as a layman, is that if it was a suicide, he shot himself with his arm across his chest pointing the gun back through the pillow. Why would anyone do that? That is weird. Tracy didn't make that up. Then, I guess the recoil made his arm reflexively pull back to the right and the gun fell to his right side.

Thanks for reading it Rupert.

Please note that Helgoth's family has accepted the suicide ruling. This is not public knowledge but I do know it's a fact.

I also had a friend take this info to a well respected homicide detective. He was sure it was a suicide as well.

Anything with the two words "Michael Tracey" just gets my dander up. Sorry if I came too strong. The guy is a disgrace.