Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #1

[shadowangel]

It is entirely possible...an unshaven female definitely points to a European connection, France most especially (also the lack of undergarments). It has been reported that the male used the name "Jock", or more likely, "Jacques" (sp?). He supposedly made the statement that his father was a doctor in Canda and that he had been disowned. It is certainly possible, in this scenario, that the family was from France. I considered it most likely a French-Canadian connection, but France is certainly a possibility.
Also, keep in mind this was the summer of the Bicentennial...The country basically stopped that summer to celebrate. I'm sure the number of visitors from other countries during that summer increased greatly, as there was something going on in every town and city throughout the country.

 

[Richard]

Does anyone see similarity between this case and others?

 

[PonderingThings]

I too think they were foreign tourists visiting the States for the celebrations. Although they may have said they were Canadian, I don't think they were (but that's just a guess on my part).

If the Jacques lead was really a true lead, why didn't LE go to the KOA office and ask to see their registration slips for that time period? KOAs required you to fill out a form saying your name, where you were from, etc.. Anyone could have written anything... but it makes you wonder why they would not have put their real information on the form.

 

[Mullins]

I do. Either way is a possibility. Keeping in mind that during that time frame many females were "burning bras" and not adhering to prior social norms of feminine behaviors. Otherwise they may have just not been keeping up their normal hygiene due to camping etc.

Does anyone see similarity between this case and others?

 

[mysteriew]

That is a good point about the KOA registration. It would have had at least the names of the camper that registered, and if they were in a vehicle they usually wanted the license number.
I wonder if there were any abandoned cars found in the area. If it was someone like a trucker- they would have had their truck and the campers vehicle to contend with.
I think the trucker should have been checked out, but I would have also checked out the KOA manager. Reportedly, he was the last to see them alive and he evidently didn't provide LE with a camper registration. He could have committed the murders, thinking that no one would remember the couple. Then later have become afraid that someone would remember, and thus given his version of the story in case someone mentioned them being at the camping area.

 

[Mullins]

That is an interesting theory MW. It's true that most campgrounds take the name and address of driver, vehicle license #, number of people in party, and such. I wonder if they did check the registration (seems such a logical thing to do) and it didn't lead to anything? If not, makes you wonder who was managing that campground at the time.

That is a good point about the KOA registration. It would have had at least the names of the camper that registered, and if they were in a vehicle they usually wanted the license number.
I wonder if there were any abandoned cars found in the area. If it was someone like a trucker- they would have had their truck and the campers vehicle to contend with.
I think the trucker should have been checked out, but I would have also checked out the KOA manager. Reportedly, he was the last to see them alive and he evidently didn't provide LE with a camper registration. He could have committed the murders, thinking that no one would remember the couple. Then later have become afraid that someone would remember, and thus given his version of the story in case someone mentioned them being at the camping area.

 

[PonderingThings]

Another possibility is that the campers were put in an "overflow" area, where registration wasn't required. This is usually an ajoining property which is close enough for the campers to use the bathrooms, etc., on the "official" grounds.

In other words, "off the books", discounted, cash. Many campgrounds do this kind of thing when availability is in short supply - like it was in 1976.

 

[docwho3]

Has anyone looked at blown up versions of the pics from the crimeibrary.com site? It looks as if either the guy's shirt said something other than the coors name as listed or that someone actually wrote Sumpter on the shirt before snapping the pic.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/classics/mystery_couple/1-2-John-&-Jane-Doe-crime-s.jpg

 

[PonderingThings]

Doc I don't see what you are referring to, but the shirt does say Sebring on it - perhaps that's what you are seeing? There is a full color photo of the shirt out there - I've seen it recently, but I went searching and can not locate it again

To everyone, the Doe Network has recently added new sketches for the John and Jane Doe. If you haven't visited in a while perhaps you'd like to take a peek of the new representations of what they look like? ...just letting you know.

 

[docwho3]

Doc I don't see what you are referring to, but the shirt does say Sebring on it - perhaps that's what you are seeing? . . .

I placed a bigger copy of the pic in my sumpter album at
http://photos.yahoo.com/docwho3
You should download it and view it in its actual size. I added the red circle.
As to the Sebring word note that the victem is layin with his front showing and his back is not seen and then read the description of the T-Shirt which says the back of the shirt had the Sebring word on it and not the front. Also the word in the pic does not appear to me to be the word Sebring.

''Coor's America's light beer'' scrawled across the front and ''Camel Challenger G T Sebring 75'' across the back.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/mystery_couple/2.html

 

[PonderingThings]

I was going from memory about the Sebring, so I suppose I am a dunce

Funny, I don't see "Sumpter" but I do see "Syria".

Thanks for sharing the pic - I will be looking for that pic of the shirt again that I saw online.

 

[docwho3]

I was going from memory about the Sebring, so I suppose I am a dunce http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/crazy1.gif

Funny, I don't see "Sumpter" but I do see "Syria".

Thanks for sharing the pic - I will be looking for that pic of the shirt again that I saw online.

I was guessing about it maybe saying Sumpter. I was looking at a very large blowup of the pic and the blurriness made it hard to read but I knew they were in sumpter so I guessed maybe someone wrote on the shirt instead of using a piece of card board or paper. I thought that would be odd for them to do but it was just a wild guess anyway. In any case it sure didn't look like that Coors sentence they have in the description.

 

[docwho3]

Another question is why was that description given out wrong?

 

[PonderingThings]

You mean the 75 instead of the 76? They've had lots of time to correct that information and they never have. Perhaps its not wrong, perhaps its what it said.

 

[docwho3]

You mean the 75 instead of the 76? They've had lots of time to correct that information and they never have. Perhaps its not wrong, perhaps its what it said.

No, I meant the shirt in the pic having that totally different wording on its front than the description of the shirt said. To me that is a rather large difference. The difference over 75 versus 76 is not a major differernce but the front of that shirt in the pic is obviously completely different than saying ''Coor's America's light beer'' as the text describes on more than one website.

 

[PonderingThings]

I searched again for the pic of the shirt and can't find it. I *think* it was on the police site, and its since been updated.

From what I recall the graphic was very strong, but at the same time entwined. I know that effect is not portrayed from the pic on the Crime Library site, but that's what I recall. The shirt was red with white lettering, with black highliting.

In the Crime Library pic the shirt is bunched. It is very possible (and I think very likely) that there is no word there - instead its the bunching in combination with the graphic on the shirt that makes it look like a word.

That's just my opinion Doc, I respect that yours may differ.

 

[PonderingThings]

The 75 versus the 76 was commented on at another site I remember, although I found no current reference for it either. It was an oddity as the Sebring races had been recently held and 76 T Shirts were plentiful and readily available. Remember this was the year of lots of tourists - vendors were ready to Sell! Sell! Sell!

It raised the questions of:

If the man was a tourist and brought the shirt with him from the previous year, was that the only race he was planning to attend? Or were they race fans who wanted to travel from racetrack to racetrack?

Did the man buy an out of date T Shirt from a vendor and did not notice the year when he bought it?

Was the T Shirt from a clothing donation site? - As in, did any charity worker meet the couple?

There were a few other points, but as I recall the police checked them all out.

Disclaimer: I'm going on memory so I will not swear to the 100% accuracy of the above.... if I did I'd be

. Instead consider it a summary only.

 

[docwho3]

. . .In the Crime Library pic the shirt is bunched. It is very possible (and I think very likely) that there is no word there - instead its the bunching in combination with the graphic on the shirt that makes it look like a word.

That's just my opinion Doc, I respect that yours may differ.

I agree that the shirt bunching is a good possibility. I posted about the way it looked so that the rest of you might also look over the pic and give opinions on it. I could not really tell for sure but I knew that it did not look, to my eyes, as described so before I jump to conclusions I wanted to have others also looking at the shirt pic. Thanks for your input. (I don't have a favorite opinion on it yet.)

 

[Alice253]

Y'all got me hooked. I've been looking at that shirt, but I'm really having a hard time with it. I have a question, though. They were both shot in the back, chest, and throat. OK, which came first, the shooting in the front (chest and throat), or the shooting in the back? In the crime scene photo, both are laying on their backs...were they found in that position, or turned over? If they were found in that position, it would probably mean that the last two shots were fired to their chests/throats. Of course, that's only if they were killed there. Too many questions and not enough information.

 

[Mullins]

Could there have been writing both on the front and back of the shirt?

I was guessing about it maybe saying Sumpter. I was looking at a very large blowup of the pic and the blurriness made it hard to read but I knew they were in sumpter so I guessed maybe someone wrote on the shirt instead of using a piece of card board or paper. I thought that would be odd for them to do but it was just a wild guess anyway. In any case it sure didn't look like that Coors sentence they have in the description.