Mystery Male Chaperone (MMC)

[Etilema]

So TH says she left the school at 9:00. Previous to this, I thought we had been assuming she left at 8:45, since that is the time when it has been repeatedly stated that she last saw Kyron "walking down the hall". Not sure where the discrepancy came in.

But I remember that there was even some discussion about why she left early, at 8:45, since the children weren't supposed to gather in their classrooms until 9:00. Some speculated that he must have been grabbed between 8:45 and 9:00, since he never showed up in class. It is even hinkier, in my opinion, if she claims to have left him at 9:00, right when he would have been expected in class.

By saying they think it happened between 9:00 and 10:00, TH is setting up a theory that it was during the time the kids were touring in their groups. But everything we have heard is that Kyron was NEVER SEEN IN CLASS to begin with.

Interestingly, TH's version is more consonant with the child (TP?) who spoke to the media about seeing Kyron in the hall, because he implies that the teachers noticed Kyron's absence after returning to class with their groups.

 

[ami]

How could there be a chaperone who is not on the chaperone list? I can see there being an unidentified male, but why would she (or someone else who she says reported this) call him a chaperone if he wasn't on the list or identified as a known volunteer? Why wouldn't she just write that Kyron was seen with an unidentified man?

Plus, Kyron was not in the classroom when the children were divided into groups with chaperones:

"Kyron's step-mother, Terri Moulton Horman, last saw him around 8:45 a.m. as he walked down the hallway. The last school official to see the boy put him in the classroom earlier that morning showing off his project. No school official saw him after that."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/kyro...0847733&page=2

Since we don't know all the facts, I'll just speculate here: when Terri and Kaine got to the school, they went to the secretary's/principal's office (or whomever the official was that called Desiree officially to say Kyron was absent that day). They heard that Kyron was marked absent at 10am.

-- Is it likely that Terri and Kaine started calling the parents of Kyron's friends to ask them to ask their kids when the last time they saw Kyron was? (this is what I would have done)

-- Could the characterization of the man as a "chaperone" (terri used quotes, meaning she didn't believe this to be his real position) have come from a child? The children likely assumed all parents leading groups of kids around that day were chaperones... so a child could easily have said, "I saw Kyron with two girls and their chaperone" and then described the chaperone as a man?

 

[BringKyronHome]

This whole male chaperone thing is just too weird. And she's willing to admit that she saw a man in school, but oops, forgets to mention the one sitting in her truck (if it was a man). Something is seriously not adding up here. I'm sure LE verified if there were male chaperones at school that day too. She must have really thought LE would buy what she said hook, line, and sinker because this story is unraveling at a fast pace, at least for me.

I should write a book using Terri and Casey as examples of how NOT to talk to LE if you get into trouble. I'd bet I'd make a lot of money...

No...she didn't say she saw this guy...she has implied that someone else saw Kyron with a guy & 2 little girls.

I want to know who those girls were...are they students? Could be friends of his & their dad...

 

[jackieblue]

So TH says she left the school at 9:00. Previous to this, I thought we had been assuming she left at 8:45, since that is the time when it has been repeatedly stated that she last saw Kyron "walking down the hall". Not sure where the discrepancy came in.

But I remember that there was even some discussion about why she left early, at 8:45, since the children weren't supposed to gather in their classrooms until 9:00. Some speculated that he must have been grabbed between 8:45 and 9:00, since he never showed up in class. It is even hinkier, in my opinion, if she claims to have left him at 9:00, right when he would have been expected in class.

By saying they think it happened between 9:00 and 10:00, TH is setting up a theory that it was during the time the kids were touring in their groups. But everything we have heard is that Kyron was NEVER SEEN IN CLASS to begin with.

Interestingly, TH's version is more consonant with the child (TP?) who spoke to the media about seeing Kyron in the hall, because he implies that the teachers noticed Kyron's absence after returning to class with their groups.

Good points..

 

[ami]

So TH says she left the school at 9:00. Previous to this, I thought we had been assuming she left at 8:45, since that is the time when it has been repeatedly stated that she last saw Kyron "walking down the hall". Not sure where the discrepancy came in.

But I remember that there was even some discussion about why she left early, at 8:45, since the children weren't supposed to gather in their classrooms until 9:00. Some speculated that he must have been grabbed between 8:45 and 9:00, since he never showed up in class. It is even hinkier, in my opinion, if she claims to have left him at 9:00, right when he would have been expected in class.

By saying they think it happened between 9:00 and 10:00, TH is setting up a theory that it was during the time the kids were touring in their groups. But everything we have heard is that Kyron was NEVER SEEN IN CLASS to begin with.

Interestingly, TH's version is more consonant with the child (TP?) who spoke to the media about seeing Kyron in the hall, because he implies that the teachers noticed Kyron's absence after returning to class with their groups.

Right, but he said he was in the hall that was placed near the south exit door, right? So if Terri left at 9am by her own reckoning, and Kyron was seen near an exit door at 9am...

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I don't believe there was any mystery man chaperone. I don't believe that LE would be so irresponsible as to almost immediately discount a stranger abduction if such was the case.

 

[Etilema]

Right, but he said he was in the hall that was placed near the south exit door, right? So if Terri left at 9am by her own reckoning, and Kyron was seen near an exit door at 9am...

Oh, yes. Excellent point.

 

[SusieMom]

so... IDK... I've never been in this situation and don't watch much TV but is it possible that LE showed TH and KH the only list they had of people who were known to be in the building at that point in the investigation (so after 3pm on June 4 and before she wrote this email) and asked them if anybody on the list was someone familiar enough to Kyron that he would have willingly left with one of them...

Is that a realistic possiblity? If so, she would have seen the list, perused the list and could have easily known that there were no men on it.

Also, at my son's school (which is much much smaller than Skyline) they frequently ask for volunteers at events like this but there are usually parents who show up and end up volunteering on the spot, even though they didn't respond to the original request... if so, those folks wouldn't have been on the list but could have been legitimately serving as chaperones.

 

[Calliope]

I don't believe there was any mystery man chaperone. I don't believe that LE would be so irresponsible as to almost immediately discount a stranger abduction if such was the case.

Up until very recently, they weren't treating it as a case with an accomplice either.

 

[cypress]

Up until very recently, they weren't treating it as a case with an accomplice either.

This really deserves its own thread. For two months we've heard nothing, and now suddenly, mystery person in a white truck? It's clear where LE is taking this, IMHO...but why now, after all this time?

 

[Calliope]

So it's chaotic and there's 300 people there, but she manages to remember the names of everyone on the chaperone list and remember that no one was male? Doesn't make sense to me.

IIRC, the kids were divided into groups of 4-5. So 4-5 chaperones for his class (excluding the teacher).

 

[STEADFAST]

So TH says she left the school at 9:00. Previous to this, I thought we had been assuming she left at 8:45, since that is the time when it has been repeatedly stated that she last saw Kyron "walking down the hall". Not sure where the discrepancy came in.

But I remember that there was even some discussion about why she left early, at 8:45, since the children weren't supposed to gather in their classrooms until 9:00. Some speculated that he must have been grabbed between 8:45 and 9:00, since he never showed up in class. It is even hinkier, in my opinion, if she claims to have left him at 9:00, right when he would have been expected in class.

By saying they think it happened between 9:00 and 10:00, TH is setting up a theory that it was during the time the kids were touring in their groups. But everything we have heard is that Kyron was NEVER SEEN IN CLASS to begin with.

Interestingly, TH's version is more consonant with the child (TP?) who spoke to the media about seeing Kyron in the hall, because he implies that the teachers noticed Kyron's absence after returning to class with their groups.

Apparently, the bell rang at 8:45, not 9:00. The 9:00 time, IMO, came when Gates said Kyron was last seen "about 9:00." He also said Terri was the last person to see Kyron, so I'm not sure whether someone saw Terri with Kyron after the bell rang or whether "about 9:00" encompasses 8:45.


Although the school usually opens at 8:35 a.m. and the final bell rings 10 minutes later, the school opened as early as 8 Friday for the science fair, said Matt Shelby, spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

Other students and parents showed up early as well to check out the fair, and Terri and Kyron saw people they knew while looking at the exhibits, Carol Moulton said.

Terri often volunteers at the school, working closely with Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter. Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

 

[twzzlrgirl]

I don't believe there was any mystery man chaperone. I don't believe that LE would be so irresponsible as to almost immediately discount a stranger abduction if such was the case.

I agree. She supposedly said this a day after he went missing. If LE gave any credence to his story, I doubt they wouldn't have at least told people to be on the lookout for a suspicious male.

Also, I guess I don't understand. He was with two little girls and Kyron, and decided to take Kyron? Who were these girls? Did they see Kyron go off with this man? And what grade school student (4th or below) uses the word "chaperone?" I taught that grade for years, and only a handful of kids would have used that word to describe a man walking around with kids. It's just not the way little kids talk.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I agree, but objectively speaking, if she'd already been questioned several times and is innocent, wouldn't there be some level of frustration?

I don't think she can only show devastation or grief. I think she's allowed to be frustrated, too, especially if she believes LE doesn't believe her and/or is wasting their time.

She may be guilty. It's entirely possible she's guilty. But in all fairness, if your child was missing and you gave an account of your day, a rather thorough account, and you were questioned and re-questioned to the point of believing LE was questioning your story, but you knew you were innocent, how would you react? If the child you loved was missing, and you knew the statistics (she watched CSI! ), and you knew time was of the essence, and LE was quibbling about you really being at the gym at 11:39 not 11:20, would you continue to be docile? I'm sorry, I don't think I would, and I don't think that would make me a bad parent. I'd be livid. If I gave an account of my whereabouts, and I was questioned and re-questioned and re-questioned and re-questioned within a 24 hour time span, but in such a way that I realized LE didn't believe me, I'd be frustrated and angry, because I'd realize their focus was on me and not on whatever really happened.

I just don't think Terri being frustrated is the smoking gun. I think her being frustrated is reasonable if she's innocent or guilty.

IMHO, the smoking guns are mystery person in the white truck, possibly the batphones if they were purchased on the day of Kyron's disappearance.

I have a hard time with emotional responses convicting someone of a crime...different people react differently to emotional stress.

I absolutley agree...people keep saying, oh she's not helping, she's not declaring her innocence, etc.

But yet here she is...and a logical person will see that the BEST possible way to find the child would be to have LE looking in the correct place...I guess that could be constrewed as defensive...but it could also be that she is plain old being honest...STOP LOOKING AT ME! Ya know.

And don't forget too, that LE has put a big hush on the whole town...well I guess that excludes Kaine & Desire though...to me it looks like Terri is doing what she is being told. After a certain amount of time, she'd be a fool not to get a lawyer (guilty or innocent) and now she's just doing what her lawyer tells her...guilty or innocent...I think his advice would eb the same: zip it and keep a low profile! And let the lawyer coordinate interactions with LE.

I don't know what to think, but I do know that there have been cases where family members have been railroaded by circumstancial evidence...I just hopw this isn't another one. I want some hard evidence. And the longer it takes to see it, the more I feel like they very well could be looking in the wrong place. I just can't see this former elementary teacher being able to outsmart LE, FBI, step-dad/detective, etc.

I hope to god this 'male-chaperone' thing has been investigated thoroughly!

 

[twzzlrgirl]

I guess, ultimately, I don't want to believe the MMC. If some creep took him, he's gone, and probably was gone since June 4th. At least if TH took him, I still believe he could be "stashed" somewhere with someone who at least might not be hurting or abusing him.

 

[Wondergirl]

BBM --

Exactly! LE has continued to say TH was the last person seen with Kyron. If he had been verifiably seen with some strange male, THAT is who LE would be looking for. They would be asking for help in identifying him. Not to mention if some strange man had been wandering around the school "chaperoning" the kids and then one of those kids went missing and LE and Skyline kept this tidbit from the other parents - we'd be talking millions in lawsuits!

What time were these emails sent on the 5th? I find it hard to believe that this soon after Kyron is missing that TH knows he was seen with a man who was not on any list. Also, if it was after TH left, how does she know he was considered a "chaperone" but wasn't one. He easily could have been someones father or another school staff.


Also, I didn't see -- what did she say about the man in her truck? TIA

Terri Horman is FB friends with several teachers/assistants from Skyline, so if that info was known at the school, and thus possibly known by these teachers/assistants, it is not a stretch to think she could have known this information right away.

The good news is, that LE would be aware of all the FB correspondence (and otherwise) between teachers/assistants and TH.

 

[Wondergirl]

Since TH appears to be defending the Dr. Appointment confusion issue in this email, from June 5th, can someone remind me if this issue was in the MSM at that time, or is this email defending what was being suggested by family/friends/LE?

 

[ami]

I absolutley agree...people keep saying, oh she's not helping, she's not declaring her innocence, etc.

But yet here she is...and a logical person will see that the BEST possible way to find the child would be to have LE looking in the correct place...I guess that could be constrewed as defensive...but it could also be that she is plain old being honest...STOP LOOKING AT ME! Ya know.

And don't forget too, that LE has put a big hush on the whole town...well I guess that excludes Kaine & Desire though...to me it looks like Terri is doing what she is being told. After a certain amount of time, she'd be a fool not to get a lawyer (guilty or innocent) and now she's just doing what her lawyer tells her...guilty or innocent...I think his advice would eb the same: zip it and keep a low profile! And let the lawyer coordinate interactions with LE.

I don't know what to think, but I do know that there have been cases where family members have been railroaded by circumstancial evidence...I just hopw this isn't another one. I want some hard evidence. And the longer it takes to see it, the more I feel like they very well could be looking in the wrong place. I just can't see this former elementary teacher being able to outsmart LE, FBI, step-dad/detective, etc.

I hope to god this 'male-chaperone' thing has been investigated thoroughly!

But why wouldn't LE have followed the MMC lead if they found a shred of evidence that it was credible? I mean the police officer got up there at the PC with *tears* in his eyes, with genuine grief on his face, to talk about Kyron's disappearance. I find it so hard to believe that bullheaded closed mindedness would keep them from investigating something so obvious and dangerous as Kyron being seen by someone other than Terri in the presence of a male stranger standing *in a school* surrounded by *many other vulnerable children* --- and just dismiss this and tell the other parents there was no danger to their children.

I understand over-focusing on a single suspect, but not to that level. Not to the level that what would otherwise be practically a smoking gun would be dismissed because it wasn't their pet theory.

I CAN however see them looking at the MMC and trying to tie him to Terri herself. Was the MMC her boyfriend, was the MMC another version of the landscaper, etc. That I can see.

 

[debs]

But she didn't say LE told her. She made it sound like she looked at that list herself and remembered every name, and not one name was male. That's just how it sounds to me. If LE had told her, or someone else had told her, she'd be quickly saying it was LE or someone else that said it to her. But instead, she is firmly saying that there were no males on that chaperone list. How can she know that if she didn't know that chaperone list by heart? I don't think she'd just make a guess and hope it's true. That would be crazy stupid on her part.

I respectfully submit that the statement "there were no men on the chaperon list" doesn't explain who told her or how she got that information, and I surely could not surmise that she'd seen the list herself, but it certainly doesn't eliminate the possibility that Terri might have been shown a list of chaperons.

 

[Etilema]

Apparently, the bell rang at 8:45, not 9:00. The 9:00 time, IMO, came when Gates said Kyron was last seen "about 9:00." He also said Terri was the last person to see Kyron, so I'm not sure whether someone saw Terri with Kyron after the bell rang or whether "about 9:00" encompasses 8:45.


Although the school usually opens at 8:35 a.m. and the final bell rings 10 minutes later, the school opened as early as 8 Friday for the science fair, said Matt Shelby, spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

Other students and parents showed up early as well to check out the fair, and Terri and Kyron saw people they knew while looking at the exhibits, Carol Moulton said.

Terri often volunteers at the school, working closely with Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter. Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Thanks very much for refreshing the details.

Maybe someone can help me find the link, but I thought that there was a printed schedule somewhere for that morning that said the students were to gather in the classrooms to tour the exhibits between 9-10?