Nancy Grace - Zahra coverage

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That is sooo strange. She's a handicapped helpless child who was murdered, then cut up, but it's not first degree??

Sickening, disgusting and an outrage imo!!! What I don't get is the SA said w/mailce and aforethought. Then he goes on to say something about knowingly causing death. Paraphasing so... why not DP or LWOP? No justice for Zahra imo.
 
I hope NG had a drink during the break!

playing AB's 911 call, and how he found the ransom note, and that his daughter may have been kidnapped instead of his bosses daughter (insert roll eyes here).

NG: A secret GJ hands down 2nd degree murder charges (same as before). We have covered her case from the get-go. Cops first find her prosthetic leg, then more of her remains. Skull never recovered, and tonight, that murder charge is 2nd degree. That evil step mother will never face murder charges.

The father goes along with this lie to police about this fire in his backyard. He was there when the mattress was removed.

JC: imagine the search. He lived in that home. He won't be charged in this crime. Could there be further charges against AB (ie, dismemberment).

NG: I find it very hard to believe that EB dismembered the body and got rid of it.

LG: Yes, Nancy, it's very ritualistic. Report that there's a satantic thing going on with EB. Also, the father, if you listen to 911, you hear the monotone voice. That is a red flag.

Dr. Kessler joining us. Explain what this homicidal violence means.

DR K: 11 cut marks on the femur alone - multiple stab wounds and trauma. He thinks she's been stabbed in the neck.

NG: Just drinking in what you're saying - please repeat.

DR K: when you dis someone you cut them apart at the bones - you don't stab them. On the femur there are 11 marks. Blunt trauma AND stab wounds, in the neck and clavicle. Animals take some of the bones apart when disposed. He thinks cut marks are real and should be reviewed by experts. Send it the Smithsonian to look at it. They can determine if crush marks happened before or after death. Please look at this in much more detail - scoffing at the 4 page willy-nilly report.

NG: Dr. Stanton Kessler, you believe, this child, was stabbed, to the bone, repeatedly, and bludgeoned to death?

Dr. K: Yes, from what I have here. Only part of the femur is here. Like someone hit it with a heavy object. Occurred pre-mortem.

NG: anything to do with the amputation.

DRK: No, this is the right leg. Her left leg was amputated.

NG: Has the body been cremated

JC: No. Talking about medical examiner (exceptional).

NG: If what Dr. K is saying is correct, and I think he is. I was assuming the marking on the bones were tool marking, but now that I hear him explain it, it makes sense. What are the alternatives - can the remains be sent to another expert now that we know COD for 1st degree murder.

GA: yes, they should be sent to another expert. Still need tox results - but another expert is required.

Commercial.
 
Back from commercial. Playing AB's 911 call.

NG talking about the murder charge, what parts of Zahra were and weren't found.

NG also discussing the 911 call with Jean. JC going over the search of the house and what was removed, mattress being found at landfill. JC speculating AB could be charged with dismemberment, disposal?

Dr. Lillian Glass discussing EB connection to Satanic element, monotonic voice on 911 call (red flag).

Cut marks on bones indicate to (medical doctor/former ME guest Dr. Stanley Kessler) possible stab wounds as COD even though Zahra was dismembered. Noting 11 marks on femur. End of femur is crushed, as if hit by hard object such as brick; (R) leg, not same leg as was amputated. Blunt trauma and stab marks. Neck and clavicle. He believes this should be reviewed by forensic anthropologist.

NG asking if Z has been cremated. JC saying she believes remains are in custody of ME. JC defending ME who performed autopsy.

NG discussing marks on bones making perfect sense as occurring prior to death. GA: we need toxicology results as well, and agrees a forensic expert is required.

commercial break
 
I agree that someone like Bones needs to take a look. Smithsonian Consult would make me happy.
 
That ME is making a lot of sense. He thinks she was stabbed multiple times.

I appreciated the way he explained his findings and agree about needing to have a forensic anthropologist review the case.
 
NG is so pro-LE that I'm surprised she's saying the autopsy needs a second opinion for a possible reindictment for first degree murder.
 
I'm not sure I believe this ME can tell stab marks from cut marks...just my opinion. It is more sensational though...

Is s/he pointing to the cut mark on the anterior left clavicle for the stabbing theory? To me, that looks like a dismemberment nick.

Other than that, I don't think there is enough material to support stabbing, since so many bones are missing, and most of the other cuts are more clearly dismemberment marks.
 
Sickening, disgusting and an outrage imo!!! What I don't get is the SA said w/mailce and aforethought. Then he goes on to say something about knowingly causing death. Paraphasing so... why not DP or LWOP? No justice for Zahra imo.

Hey Strach, I really think there was a deal made initially by her attorney. Seems like I remember there was outrage about it.
 
I believe these charges only being 2nd degree stems from the deal she made with LE in exchange for leadingthem to rermains.

either that or perhaps the GJ was not given 1st degree as an option to consider because the Gaithard feels with the evidence available the 2nd degree has more of a chance at a guilty verdict.

Not if we were on the jury. :maddening:
 
Is s/he pointing to the cut mark on the anterior left clavicle for the stabbing theory? To me, that looks like a dismemberment nick.

Other than that, I don't think there is enough material to support stabbing, since so many bones are missing, and most of the other cuts are more clearly dismemberment marks.

Was talking about the multiple cuts on that one bone. I personally would love to have a forensic anthropologist consult done.
 
Was talking about the multiple cuts on that one bone. I personally would love to have a forensic anthropologist consult done.

You mean the femur? That looks like a clumsy amputation attempt, as stabbing isn't common in the femur, is it?
 
I hope NG had a drink during the break!

playing AB's 911 call, and how he found the ransom note, and that his daughter may have been kidnapped instead of his bosses daughter (insert roll eyes here).

NG: A secret GJ hands down 2nd degree murder charges (same as before). We have covered her case from the get-go. Cops first find her prosthetic leg, then more of her remains. Skull never recovered, and tonight, that murder charge is 2nd degree. That evil step mother will never face murder charges.

The father goes along with this lie to police about this fire in his backyard. He was there when the mattress was removed.

JC: imagine the search. He lived in that home. He won't be charged in this crime. Could there be further charges against AB (ie, dismemberment).

NG: I find it very hard to believe that EB dismembered the body and got rid of it.

LG: Yes, Nancy, it's very ritualistic. Report that there's a satantic thing going on with EB. Also, the father, if you listen to 911, you hear the monotone voice. That is a red flag.

Dr. Kessler joining us. Explain what this homicidal violence means.

DR K: 11 cut marks on the femur alone - multiple stab wounds and trauma. He thinks she's been stabbed in the neck.

NG: Just drinking in what you're saying - please repeat.

DR K: when you dis someone you cut them apart at the bones - you don't stab them. On the femur there are 11 marks. Blunt trauma AND stab wounds, in the neck and clavicle. Animals take some of the bones apart when disposed. He thinks cut marks are real and should be reviewed by experts. Send it the Smithsonian to look at it. They can determine if crush marks happened before or after death. Please look at this in much more detail - scoffing at the 4 page willy-nilly report.

NG: Dr. Stanton Kessler, you believe, this child, was stabbed, to the bone, repeatedly, and bludgeoned to death?

Dr. K: Yes, from what I have here. Only part of the femur is here. Like someone hit it with a heavy object. Occurred pre-mortem.

NG: anything to do with the amputation.

DRK: No, this is the right leg. Her left leg was amputated.

NG: Has the body been cremated

JC: No. Talking about medical examiner (exceptional).

NG: If what Dr. K is saying is correct, and I think he is. I was assuming the marking on the bones were tool marking, but now that I hear him explain it, it makes sense. What are the alternatives - can the remains be sent to another expert now that we know COD for 1st degree murder.

GA: yes, they should be sent to another expert. Still need tox results - but another expert is required.

Commercial.

I'm pretty sure a stabbing in the neck is how it is worded in the autopsy report. Whereas others say cutting.
 
I'm sorry, but I've never heard of someone on the spur of the moment deciding to dismember a body. The act itself shows premeditation! I am just floored that all the GJ came up with is second degree murder. Is there something I'm missing here?

NG sounds lively as usual, though. I'm not sure I agree with that ME on the stabbing.
 
Back from commercial with more of the news conference as well as AB's 911 call........"we only see her when she wants something".....

NG: AB is lying about the timeline. JC: last time he saw Z about Thursday night; EB originally said they all went out on Friday night

Caller: the "she-devil" was premeditating this angel's death for a long time; how could AB not be charged with at least child neglect

NG: don't blame the GJ unless there was a rare event and they no-billed the murder one charged; they only go with what the prosecutor gives them.

NG to JC to discuss the number of times DSS was called; AB said he saw the black eye but was told Zahra fell and hit herself on bathtub.

Ellie discussing the bigamy charge against EB; having still been married to AY when she married AB. NG also asking how EB met AB. Answer they met online.

JC: EB can be sentenced to life in prison but will be eligible for parole with 2nd degree murder

commercial break
 
I'm sorry, but I've never heard of someone on the spur of the moment deciding to dismember a body. The act itself shows premeditation! I am just floored that all the GJ came up with is second degree murder. Is there something I'm missing here?

NG sounds lively as usual, though. I'm not sure I agree with that ME on the stabbing.

I have never known anyone to "enjoy" pretending to participate in a chainsaw masacre for fun with friends either tho Aedrys. Lets not forget, these are unusual persons we are talking about here :rolleyes:
 
There aren't a lot of bones present, so without a lot of soft tissue and the skull, I am not sure how anyone can be definite on a COD - at least no one short of an expert foranth team with lots of equipment and grey matter.

I agree that TV experts might be tempted to go for the sensational.
 
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