NC - 4 teens chrgd w/2nd Dgre rape of mntlly incapicated & physically helpless girl

[miimaa]

I agree that girls need to exercise common sense but IMO we have failed as a society to teach boys that they need to exercise self control as well. A girl passed out is not an invitation. Ever. Period.

No she is not and a decent man will not have sex with a drunk woman. These are teens and from the jump they do not have very good judgement. Teens only think about the NOW and today. For the most part, they do not ponder what could be in one week, one month, one year.

I grew up in an area where there was (and still is) a lot of drinking. While I do not recall things like this happening there was a lot of one-on-one drunken sexual escapades and many mornings filled with regret.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

This sounds to me like Anytown, USA, any Friday or Saturday night, for the last 50 years.

For some reason, some people are just now aware of this. I certainly was well aware of it, every single weekend, in the 1970s through now.

This is not, IMHO, the way "our young people are headed", this is human behavior.

I agree this is not a new thing and I know numerous females that this happened to when they were younger but they all tell their story with tears in their eyes and much guilt that they were somehow at fault though they were not. They were victims. Years and years later it still haunts them.

Thank goodness society has made strides to see this as rape, bring charges and prosecute. I am sure this whole community is torn apart - the kids, the parents, the law even.

I have been talking to my daughter for years about this exact type of situation in hopes of protecting her and her friends. In spite of that, she recently had a friend put in just this situation and they failed at all points. They did not know what to do. They did not call for help or go seek help. Thank goodness the girl fought them off for an hour while the rest of the group stood by doing nothing - boys and girls. No alcohol was involved.

It was brought to my attention weeks afterward. We went back over what should have and could have been done. And the boys parents were alerted so they can talk to their sons now before they too are charged with a crime. They were lucky this time.

Parents have got to talk to their kids. I was once a kid too and I remember quite well not wanting to be the snitch but you have to know there is a line that once crossed - somebody has to be the snitch. Parents can usually fix some things like a broken window getting paid for and no law called but rape crosses the line.

If only one kid has the courage slip to the restroom to dial an adult or 9-1-1.

Fixing to talk to mine again. I know she gets tired of hearing it.

 

[JeannaT]

Jeanna, it seems to me that things had gotten better in regard to these issues for a while. I remember being in school (hs and college) and you would be bombarded with messages about date rape, etc. I guess we just took it for granted that that message was getting passed down. Now all of a sudden as these cases come to light, young people seem to be shocked to learn that stripping and fondling a girl that is extemely intoxicated is a crime. They are perplexed that its wrong to film underage girls naked and send that to all your friends. Sure there are cases where boys and girls are both drunk and equally at fault. But thats not what has been happening here and in Steubenville. These girls were incapacitated. Here is a hint guys from a guy that has been around the block a few times: if you're at a party and there is a girl that has been drinking and is having sex (even apparantly consenual) with multiple guys, things have already reached a very dangerous point.

That's very good advice.

 

[flipflop]

All four students attended East Henderson High in December. They face a minimum of 17-and-a-half years to a maximum of 21 years and 9 months in the Department of Corrections if convicted of second-degree rape.

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20130228/ARTICLES/130229781

 

[PrairieWind]

I agree that girls need to exercise common sense but IMO we have failed as a society to teach boys that they need to exercise self control as well. A girl passed out is not an invitation. Ever. Period.

I think we have really failed accross the board. Failing to do a good job teaching boys control, failing to teach girls to recognize dangerous situations. And where I think we have really failed is in instilling in kids, youth, everyone, the idea that they need to stop being bystanders and step in and intervene in these situations. That applies to all ages, all situations. But in the context of these situations, it means both boys and girls need to be willing to step in.

 

[seattlechiquita]

All four students attended East Henderson High in December. They face a minimum of 17-and-a-half years to a maximum of 21 years and 9 months in the Department of Corrections if convicted of second-degree rape.

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20130228/ARTICLES/130229781

I take it they are being tried as adults?

 

[PrairieWind]

I take it they are being tried as adults?

Apparantly, yes. As well they should be.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Can't seem to find much on this case online. I hope it is given as much exposure as <modsnip>'s

 

[PrairieWind]

It certainly wont get near as much exposure as Steubenville. That story blew up because the police and prosecutor's office appeared to be covering it up. That doesnt appear to be the case here.

 

[raine1212]

Long years ago I attended that school, was not like that when I went

 

[sweetmop]

Right. Did you see that the parents were out of town for a seriously injured child? How horrible. I've been out of town and my home has also been abused by teenagers while all of us (my teens included) were out of town. Teens come in, and drink, boys AND girls, and stuff happens because they're young and stupid.

At some point, there will be a backlash. My sons are now grown, but I think if I were raising teenage boys at this time, I'd breathalize everyone who came in to my home, and call the cops to remove girls who blew alcohol. I never allowed drinking EVER in my home by minors, but it slips in, and I'd hate to have boys charged with felonies for liberties taken with drunk girls, by drunk boys.

ENOUGH of parties with drunk boys and drunk girls, and the boys are charged with felonies for having sex with the drunk girls and the girls are sheltered by law as "victims". ENOUGH.

I live in the townwhere this crime took place! ... and yes, the girl was incapacitated (drunk), but there's so much that is NOT printed in this article. It will all come out in court.
These young men all raped this girl. RAPE. She was raped! Rape is against the law. The bad choices these 4 young man chose has now ruined so many lives, including the girl, and their own. They are facing the possibility of alot of time in prison for this crime! And I do hope that they are punished for what they all did!!!
I am the mother of 2 sons and one daughter.
Rape is against the law!!!

 

[JeannaT]

I live in the townwhere this crime took place! ... and yes, the girl was incapacitated (drunk), but there's so much that is NOT printed in this article. It will all come out in court.
These young men all raped this girl. RAPE. She was raped! Rape is against the law. The bad choices these 4 young man chose has now ruined so many lives, including the girl, and their own. They are facing the possibility of alot of time in prison for this crime! And I do hope that they are punished for what they all did!!!
I am the mother of 2 sons and one daughter.
Rape is against the law!!!

Sweetmop, since you know the girl (or maybe only know of the girl, I don't know) and most of us don't, what do you think about how she feels about this?

Do you think she was more damaged by the night this took place and all the unsavory activities of which she was a victim, or do you think she would say 2 years down the road that she was more damaged by the trial and "everything that came out" and the current public's fascination with this kind of drunken high school debauchery?

I think the girl in Steubenville would say - hands down - that she was far more traumatized by the public spotlight put on her, the trial, the internet fascination, the media stalking, etc., than she was by the events of August 11.

They are victimized at the party, but they are victimized 10 fold by the public trying to take up for them and right the wrong. If this case takes on the public spectre that the Steubenville case did, this girl is about to be victimized to a degree she never knew possible - by a public hungry for ugly scandal, and a media hell bent on giving the public what they want - graphic, ugly details.

I have no doubt that this girl was victimized, I just think she will feel MORE victimized throughout this trial.

 

[JeannaT]

Can't seem to find much on this case online. I hope it is given as much exposure as <modsnip>'s

Do you think the girl hopes that too?

 

[Redhead72]

Sweetmop, since you know the girl (or maybe only know of the girl, I don't know) and most of us don't, what do you think about how she feels about this?

Do you think she was more damaged by the night this took place and all the unsavory activities of which she was a victim, or do you think she would say 2 years down the road that she was more damaged by the trial and "everything that came out" and the current public's fascination with this kind of drunken high school debauchery?

I think the girl in Steubenville would say - hands down - that she was far more traumatized by the public spotlight put on her, the trial, the internet fascination, the media stalking, etc., than she was by the events of August 11.

They are victimized at the party, but they are victimized 10 fold by the public trying to take up for them and right the wrong. If this case takes on the public spectre that the Steubenville case did, this girl is about to be victimized to a degree she never knew possible - by a public hungry for ugly scandal, and a media hell bent on giving the public what they want - graphic, ugly details.

I have no doubt that this girl was victimized, I just think she will feel MORE victimized throughout this trial.

BBM :what:

So, what would you suggest instead? For her to just "get over it"? That she shouldn't have come forward? That she should shut up and let these guys get away with this type of behavior?

Also, how does your statement that you have no doubt she was victimized fit with the comments you made expressing anger at the fact that the girl was drunk and that the law "protects" her, and ruins boys' lives because they made stupid, drunken mistakes? (paraphrasing here - I have added your quote below)

She will never be the same regardless of whether she has to testify at trial or not... Having the support of people who actually believe her, and will not tolerate this type of behavior as something that's been going on for years - as you stated in a previous post - is what will help her. Hearing people going on about how she isn't a victim, and apparently the law is somehow "protecting" her most definitely won't help.

I'll have to stop myself at this point because I can't believe someone in this day and age would actually suggest that for fear of dealing with the trial or the media, that instead they should just pretend it didn't happen because, well, others have had it happen to them for years now (according to your comments), and it's just "human nature" is all...

:furious:

ETA: Lest you have forgotten these were your words back in post #7 -

"ENOUGH of parties with drunk boys and drunk girls, and the boys are charged with felonies for having sex with the drunk girls and the girls are sheltered by law as "victims". ENOUGH."

So, which is it that you believe? Was this girl victimized, or is she being sheltered by the law as a "victim"?

 

[Cappuccino]

Right. Did you see that the parents were out of town for a seriously injured child? How horrible. I've been out of town and my home has also been abused by teenagers while all of us (my teens included) were out of town. Teens come in, and drink, boys AND girls, and stuff happens because they're young and stupid.

At some point, there will be a backlash. My sons are now grown, but I think if I were raising teenage boys at this time, I'd breathalize everyone who came in to my home, and call the cops to remove girls who blew alcohol. I never allowed drinking EVER in my home by minors, but it slips in, and I'd hate to have boys charged with felonies for liberties taken with drunk girls, by drunk boys.

ENOUGH of parties with drunk boys and drunk girls, and the boys are charged with felonies for having sex with the drunk girls and the girls are sheltered by law as "victims". ENOUGH.

Unbelievable. :banghead:

 

[HMSHood]

Salem, just like Steubenville. This is going on all over America every weekend. I think the Steubenville case kinda woke some of the good kids up - that they can no longer walk away - they have to speak up and they are.

Shame the way a lot of our young people are headed.....................






JMHO

I think Penn State was what brought it to attention. Steubenville is no doubt is part of the effect from Penn State. When I compare Penn State and Steubenville, the similarities are startling. They had a thriving sports program with a "look the other way" or "turn the other cheek" mentality. That mentality manifested for decades. They were worried about their reputation, which in the end destroyed it, essentially the reputation was reduced to rubble. The level of complicity at Penn State and Steubenville goes beyond those two as I have seen this type of mentality ranging from South Hadley, Al-Qaeda, Nazis Germany, Khmer Rouge, etc. People knew what they were up to, but there was no action and ended with horrible results.

Steubenville has had a bad reputation for corruption. The rape case just adds another massive black eye to Steubenville's already ruined reputation.

Why Nobody Trusts Steubenville
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/01/why-nobody-trusts-steubenville/60658/

 

[HMSHood]

BBM :what:

So, what would you suggest instead? For her to just "get over it"? That she shouldn't have come forward? That she should shut up and let these guys get away with this type of behavior?

Also, how does your statement that you have no doubt she was victimized fit with the comments you made expressing anger at the fact that the girl was drunk and that the law "protects" her, and ruins boys' lives because they made stupid, drunken mistakes? (paraphrasing here - I have added your quote below)

She will never be the same regardless of whether she has to testify at trial or not... Having the support of people who actually believe her, and will not tolerate this type of behavior as something that's been going on for years - as you stated in a previous post - is what will help her. Hearing people going on about how she isn't a victim, and apparently the law is somehow "protecting" her most definitely won't help.

I'll have to stop myself at this point because I can't believe someone in this day and age would actually suggest that for fear of dealing with the trial or the media, that instead they should just pretend it didn't happen because, well, others have had it happen to them for years now (according to your comments), and it's just "human nature" is all...

:furious:

ETA: Lest you have forgotten these were your words back in post #7 -

"ENOUGH of parties with drunk boys and drunk girls, and the boys are charged with felonies for having sex with the drunk girls and the girls are sheltered by law as "victims". ENOUGH."

So, which is it that you believe? Was this girl victimized, or is she being sheltered by the law as a "victim"?

Type of mentality is how someone like Jerry Sandusky (Penn State) or Jimmy Savile (BBC) get away with it and victimize many more.

 

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~

ENOUGH of parties with drunk boys and drunk girls, and the boys are charged with felonies for having sex with the drunk girls and the girls are sheltered by law as "victims". ENOUGH.

I'm just wondering who had sex here? As in the Stuebenville case, it appears that the boys controlled the situation. I don't see any "having sex" in this case. "Having sex" implies two or more willing/consenting people. That isn't what happened here. That isn't what happened in Stuebenville.

Salem

 

[HMSHood]

Here are some things I have noticed with Steubenville, Penn State, South Hadley, and Glen Ridge.

1.) Small towns not in large metropolitan areas with exception of Glen Ridge.
2.) Centers around athletic program participants as perps are in it.
3.) Parochial.
4.) Good old boy network and mentality mixed with nepotism.
5.) Corruption, especially in Steubenville

 

[HMSHood]

~Respectfully snipped~

I'm just wondering who had sex here? As in the Stuebenville case, it appears that the boys controlled the situation. I don't see any "having sex" in this case. "Having sex" implies two or more willing/consenting people. That isn't what happened here. That isn't what happened in Stuebenville.

Salem

I have read if a person has sex with a mentally incapicated person that is considered rape.