NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

[Oriah]

Not a lot of news out this morning...


Lawyer known for murder cases assigned to Elisa Baker

Zahra Baker's stepmother has been in the Catawba County jail since Oct. 10, and she's had frequent visits from three people: her attorney, Scott Reilly; lawyer Lisa Dubs; and private investigator Steve Elhers.

Dubs confirmed Friday that she has been assigned to Baker's case as provisional counsel. According to court records, Dubs' role is to "conduct a preliminary investigation, determine if the defendant is indigent and needs appointed counsel, and protect the defendant's rights pending appointment of trial counsel."

More...

Investifators tight-lippedas search continues
Saturday marked the 15th day spent searching for 10-year-old Zahra Baker. She has not been found.
Hickory police did not respond to requests for a status update on the ongoing investigation Saturday, and it is not clear if the investigation has stalled.
More...

Along with this, I would like to bump this:
http://missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PublicHomeServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US

 

[wfgodot]

It was stated earlier in the posts that his name was 'Carlisle Fulham' (2 UK footie teams!)
or mispelled 'Carlisle Fullham'

I had the "maybe 'Fullman' is a misspelling of 'Fulham'" guess, and it's only a guess, based on the possibility that the -man was a mishearing or misrecognition of the suffix -ham. It happens, as anyone whose name ends in -ham can tell you. Kamille authored the hugely interesting footy possibility, Carlisle v. Fulham.

So here are the possibilities on the $10,000 Man name:
Carlisle Fullman
Carver Fullman
Kara Fullman
Carlisle Fulham
Carver Fulham
Kara Fulham
and, to add a couple possibilities as it looks like the "Kara" might be a Yank attempt to decipher a common Brit way of nicknaming...
Cazza Fullman
Cazza Fulham

 

[sunsetbeach]

You know...if it wasn't for the bogus randsom note...Elisa MIGHT have been able to squeak out of this!!!!

The keys in my mind to solving this involve the phone call to BB on the friday, and the man from London.

Her British friend MH has a male friend, PE who is a BIG fan of UK football. It was stated earlier in the posts that his name was 'Carlisle Fulham' (2 UK footie teams!)
or mispelled 'Carlisle Fullham'
I have spent HOURS working on those names, to no avail....

I'd LOVE to know HOW this woman could entice a man to send her $10,000!

BBM

Was wondering were you at one time able to see this PE person's FB page? Wondering how you knew he was a BIG fan of UK football? His profile is private now and the only info available is that he is a "male"

 

[Norwegian]

Saddly, I feel like we are in the same place as soooooo many others, no body, no charges....we just set back and scream, my heart cries again!

I was thinking that about Shaniya Davis too. And all of sudden, everything started to unfold. I believe we will get answers. Just believe people... believe hard and it will come.

 

[passionflower]

IF true...
This makes me wonder if Mr. Coffey was firing him... They would lose everything... That would make sense of the "who's in control now.." statement..

BBM
Yes, it makes perfect sense to me.
EB seemed very upset with Mr. C for some reason.
Wanted $$$ etc in ransom note.
I bet she had words with Mr.C and he was fed up with both.
I would love to hear about AB's work hours, was AB a hard worker?
Did he abuse his privleges or did EB?????

 

[Patty G]

Let's say the income reported in the newspaper is accurate and IF Elisa and Adam housing was part of Adam's income, leaving no rent out of the money they received.

Total income - $1,191.00
Gas and electric 100.00
Car Insurance - 80.00
Cable & Int/Landline 100.00
Cell phone(s) 100.00
Food 00.00 ("allegedly" food stamps)
Gas for cars 80.00

Left over 731.00 a month
If they had to pay rent @$700.00/month

Then there is only 31.00 left over to buy items not covered under food stamps

It is possible for 3 to live off of this money whether they pay rent or rent is part of their income.

 

[passionflower]

It's Sunday so I do not think we will hear anything from LE.
LE is playing this close to the vest.
I was thinking that EB had to have help with getting rid of the old
mattress esp if it was wet from body fluids, gas etc.
I do think AB is invlved with Zahra's death.
BUT I also think that EB had PLANS for AB also.
IMO, EB was ready for her next adventure.
Then she got caught!

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/tips.pdf

this link is for all who missed it and want to know how NO BODY
cases are handled. Very interesting read.

 

[passionflower]

Let's say the income reported in the newspaper is accurate and IF Elisa and Adam housing was part of Adam's income, leaving no rent out of the money they received.

Total income - $1,191.00
Gas and electric 100.00
Car Insurance - 80.00
Cable & Int/Landline 100.00
Cell phone(s) 100.00
Food 00.00 ("allegedly" food stamps)
Gas for cars 80.00

Left over 731.00 a month
If they had to pay rent @$700.00/month

Then there is only 31.00 left over to buy items not covered under food stamps

It is possible for 3 to live off of this money whether they pay rent or rent is part of their income.

and if you get any charity for Zahra and sell drugs!!!!
do not forget cost of articial nails, hair coloring, tatoos, EB clothes.......(lost so much weight) expensive AU jacket,
jewlry, and everything EB wanted!!!

 

[sunsetbeach]

You know...if it wasn't for the bogus randsom note...Elisa MIGHT have been able to squeak out of this!!!!

The keys in my mind to solving this involve the phone call to BB on the friday, and the man from London.

Her British friend MH has a male friend, PE who is a BIG fan of UK football. It was stated earlier in the posts that his name was 'Carlisle Fulham' (2 UK footie teams!)
or mispelled 'Carlisle Fullham'
I have spent HOURS working on those names, to no avail....

I'd LOVE to know HOW this woman could entice a man to send her $10,000!

OK, this PE guy is making my wheels turn ... On his FB profile he has a shield with Port Vale F.C. .... Now reverse that F.C. and what do you get CF!!!!
Could it be the Carlisle Fullman or Carver Fullman???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Vale_F.C.

ETA: Can someone screencap that page before it changes (just in case)?? I don't know how to do that.

 

[TxLady2]

I am sure this has been addressed somewhere in the threads previous...but does it seem weird that the search warrant (page 4) that the items listed included:
"4 burnt samples (from Tahoe and Brush pile)"
"2 toothbrushes"
"Duke Power bill"

So I was under the assumption from the media, that the Tahoe didn't catch fire, and that is where the note was found. If they removed burnt samples FROM the Tahoe does that not mean that something inside the Tahoe was at one time on fire? (is that a safe conclusion??)

About the toothbrushes, unless they are from a dentists office visit (I think I even have one of those in my car) there is no real reason to have 2 in a vehicle. Here is my theory about the fire/tahoe thing: EB harms Zahra (Ugh, awful) EB feels the need to dispose of all the items she can think of, that may contain record of Z. Common items shown in TV shows to ID people: toothbrushes, bedding, hair brush, food containers...c-mon, you have alll seen the CSI episode where they offer a drink to someone, only to take the DNA off of the can... this could explain the bowl. (Previous dinner maybe??)

Did LE ever come out with any information about the passports found in the Tahoe? Were they maybe AU passports for Z & AB? Again an attempt at trying to dispose of anything that could potentially ID Z.

It seems to me, that the Tahoe and it's contents are going to play a very large role in this case. Does anyone have any proof of which car AB took to work before the fire? One would think, co-workers would have/could have seen the inside of the vehicle. Could they maybe attest to how AB kept the truck? (Always washed, clean inside or was it always full of random stuff?)

One more thing I need to add, the media is reporting that the Tahoe was doused in gas. Has that been confirmed? I guess it may seem nit picky, but when someone says doused, it means really soaked. Was the tahoe really soaked with a lot of gasoline, or was the smell & residue of having the gas cans inside the vehicle enough to make the car smell?

Oh gosh, one thought just crossed my mind. What if, EB was trying to set up AB for the "homicide" by starting the fire, and then placing all the incriminating evidence into the truck, "find the Z missing" (which we know they didn't at the time of the fire) and blame it all on AB to get him deported so she could move on to her next cash cow.

Sorry for the long post, it is late, and my mind is racing right now.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/mgmedia/file/35/baker/

Just guessing, but I would think the toothbrushes were from the home, which would have DNA on them. No need for new unused toothbrushes.

 

[froginTtown]

As many of us thought in the beginning... Why put a ransom note on a vehicle that was doushed in gasoline to be caught on fire...
I no longer think that was the case..
I feel strongly that there was no intention to catch that vehicle on fire..
I think that vehicle was used to transport a gas soaked mattress that was partcially burnt.. and the fire was set as a red herring for the gas in the vehicle... How could they ever explain to the boss the excessive gas inside of it... Maybe the mattress was still smoldering inside when then put it in the vehicle.. maybe it burnt the inside of the vehicle... They removed the console of the Tahoe. and found (poss) blood that they took swabs from... The dogs picking up on a death scent... I'm thinking this is when LE decided to change it into a homicide case... after they impounded both vehicles and ran test... any thoughts...??

 

[DLT88]

You know... I keep wondering about the fire and the ransom note. Up until the release of AB's 911 call, the fire didn't make sense to me. After listening to the 911 call, I decided that perhaps the fire and ransom note were an elaborate scheme to stage the disappearance of Zahra. Let's say that you KNOW your daughter is gone/dead.... you have to explain it to the outside world - so, you stage a fire (gives an opportunity for abduction), and you write a stupid ransom note to the wrong family (evidence you are setting up a mistaken identity scenario). The big question is WHY that day??? What was going on - or going to go on, that made them realize they needed to "stage" a fake abduction???

Good question. The baker said he saw someone sitting on their backsteps "playing with a lighter". That says to me that someone was comfortable enough to sit there, for one thing, and also someone maybe couldn't decide whether she should do it or not. It's like (is it were EB), she was sitting there possibly thinking "Ok, this is IT. THe police will come. I'll pretend Zahra was kidnapped. Ok. Ok. I have to do this. No wait. No, yes, I have to do this. It will work...."

 

[majikposhun]

I just wanted to post this article - as non-profits are keeping Zahra's name in the limelight in the name of domestic violence.

This article is from a Board Member on Becky's Fund, a national nonprofit organization focused on domestic violence prevention and education.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/becky-lee/zahra-bakers-story-an-ind_b_772500.html

*snipped*
The real shame is in the way Zahra was treated by her family and in the tacit acceptance with which we -- her friends, neighbors and community -- allowed her plight to unfold in our view, in our midst and in our silence.

 

[DLT88]

As many of us thought in the beginning... Why put a ransom note on a vehicle that was doushed in gasoline to be caught on fire...
I no longer think that was the case..
I feel strongly that there was no intention to catch that vehicle on fire..
I think that vehicle was used to transport a gas soaked mattress that was partcially burnt.. and the fire was set as a red herring for the gas in the vehicle... How could they ever explain to the boss the excessive gas inside of it... Maybe the mattress was still smoldering inside when then put it in the vehicle.. maybe it burnt the inside of the vehicle... They removed the console of the Tahoe. and found (poss) blood that they took swabs from... The dogs picking up on a death scent... I'm thinking this is when LE decided to change it into a homicide case... after they impounded both vehicles and ran test... any thoughts...??

That's quite possible, I think! Interesting.

I also wonder if the pillow and comforter in the car were from Zahra's bed --- like maybe she was carried out of the house with them? Perhaps the pillow was used to smother her? I don't like to think about that, though. Something about those cars, etc. convinced LE that they had a homicide on their hands.

 

[froginTtown]

As many of us thought in the beginning... Why put a ransom note on a vehicle that was doushed in gasoline to be caught on fire...
I no longer think that was the case..
I feel strongly that there was no intention to catch that vehicle on fire..
I think that vehicle was used to transport a gas soaked mattress that was partcially burnt.. and the fire was set as a red herring for the gas in the vehicle... How could they ever explain to the boss the excessive gas inside of it... Maybe the mattress was still smoldering inside when then put it in the vehicle.. maybe it burnt the inside of the vehicle... They removed the console of the Tahoe. and found (poss) blood that they took swabs from... The dogs picking up on a death scent... I'm thinking this is when LE decided to change it into a homicide case... after they impounded both vehicles and ran test... any thoughts...??

forgot this part... I think there was a previous fire before the one that was reported.. Something forced their hand that night... I have a feeling the boss was about to discover the damage to the company vehicle... and they would have alot of explaining to do...

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

If Zahra's disappearance happened days or weeks prior to the fire (one of LE's considerations) then the hasty execution of the fire and ransom note would require a tipping point. If EB (and AB too, if Zahra were missing for days) had successfully hidden Zahra's disappearance, what event would have provoked her into the frantic failed attempt with the ransom note? Why would they have felt pressured into finally report her as "missing?"

These three possibilities keep fighting for first place in my mind:

1. We know the school had been following up on Zahra's home schooling program. Had they set up an appointment for a home visit?

2. Several people have made claims that they had contacted DSS. Does DSS set up appointments for home visits or do they just drop in unannounced (or both)?

3. Did someone in EB's family threaten to come over to check on Zahra?

If I can't figure out a reason for them to have felt they needed to act immediately, in the middle of the night ~ no less, then it makes me think that maybe Zahra was killed shortly before the fire. Hence the ill thought out plan and ensuing panic.

 

[passionflower]

Good question. The baker said he saw someone sitting on their backsteps "playing with a lighter". That says to me that someone was comfortable enough to sit there, for one thing, and also someone maybe couldn't decide whether she should do it or not. It's like (is it were EB), she was sitting there possibly thinking "Ok, this is IT. THe police will come. I'll pretend Zahra was kidnapped. Ok. Ok. I have to do this. No wait. No, yes, I have to do this. It will work...."

do we know if either AB/EB smoke? Sitting there having a smoke while thinking what to do next??? Throwing butts in the mulch???

 

[Kamille]

Good morning everyone.

Still no movement in the case it appears. Lot of great ideas overnight. I think our British poster, Kate, is right on about the Visa/immigration issues that AB is/was dealing with. I believe those "passport" type photos were taken somewhere around May 2009 and that it was an attempt to apply for a Visa after their visitor status had expired. Would a visitor visa expire in about 6 months? That's about how long they were in the country in May 2009.

I think Sherbie was right about how quickly LE was able to determine that the mattresses found in the landfill were not the mattress they were looking for. They couldn't possibly rule out DNA that quickly, and in a tent in a landfill no less IMO. I think they had information that something might be inside the mattress and I think shopgirl alluded to that earlier.

I see the last digit on the Impala tag as a 9. That's magnified to about 400 percent. But everyone is seeing it differently so it could be any of the numbers. Have you checked all the possibilites agatha? Would like to solve the mystery of who owns that car and why it wasn't seized. There was also AF's statement that EB was in a dispute with her grandfather (EB's father?) about a car. Did she take the Impala from him or was it regarding the Monte Carlo? :waitasec: Didn't realize that the new house in Hickory was so close to EB's father's house, where they lived for the first 8-9 months after returning from AU. Where did EB store her stuff when she went to AU? Did she have any stuff? She must have given up whatever address she was at before going there. :waitasec:

The phone call to BB "out of the blue" on the Friday is very puzzling and I think it does play into this too. Is this the only charge/warrant that EB knew about? She had to have known that when the police got involved in the fire/ransom note escapade that she would be found and possibly picked up on that warrant.

There is still the mysterious request from LE for an "inspector" to come forward. If DSS had caught up to them and had made an appointment to visit, this explains why the urgency to report Zahra missing IMO.

So many questions, so few answers. I hope LE is really on top of this...for Zahra.

MOO

 

[badhorsie]

OK, this PE guy is making my wheels turn ... On his FB profile he has a shield with Port Vale F.C. .... Now reverse that F.C. and what do you get CF!!!!
Could it be the Carlisle Fullman or Carver Fullman???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Vale_F.C.

ETA: Can someone screencap that page before it changes (just in case)?? I don't know how to do that.

F.C in that context stands for football club. I am wondering whether the name was misheard and could be Karl or Carl, how I wish we could see the transcript, when will this be possible?
Prayers for sweet, strong little Zahra, this is breaking my heart

 

[froginTtown]

If the comforter and pillow where found in the Tahoe, How would AB explain that he seen his daughter was in bed that night... This would explain alot of the back peddling he's doing... Going from we checked on her that night at 2 something to the last time I seen her was on Thursday...