Found Deceased ND - Savanna Lafontaine-Greywind, 22, pregnant, Fargo, 19 Aug 2017 #2 *Arrests*

[racingislife9697]

Adding to your thoughts with my morning coffee ramble...

I believe LE have stated that the one who reported the banging noises in the bathroom is not a POI, along with the RSO who lives in another building on that street. IMO, (and I hate to say this), the bathroom banging may have been done by Savannah who was most likely still alive when giving birth to her baby, but likely gagged. Piecing a theory together here, based on the male suspect's strange story and comments--who I believe knew that eventually LE would find blood trace in the bathroom, and possibly the bloody towels/shoes he disposed of...(the first three apt searches were done with suspect cooperation and without warrant, and so not likely thorough forensic searches--just visual exam). So he wanted to concoct a story that would exclude his presence there.

Neither one of the suspects was employed, so I'm leaning toward both being at the apartment that day when Savannah was enticed up there. I'm theorizing that after she got to the apartment, they gagged and bound her, putting her into the tub to try to induce labor (re the bizarre story of the male suspect). I don't believe they'd have (intially at least) tried to do a C-section for fear of it killing the baby (who was their only consideration, here). I believe Savannah may have been confined to the tub and perhaps might have done the banging--during labor or struggle or to try to attract attention and call for help. Theorizing that the baby may have been born there in the bathroom, and then removed from the apartment via the large suitcase and laundry basket (witnessed by either the mom or another tenant--can't remember who stated they saw those repeated actions after the murder). Savannah may then have been killed in the bathroom as well, and her body (taped in bag) removed and dumped at some point later, maybe in the middle of the night when there were no witnesses.

Such an unspeakably horrific case, but wanted to throw out my theory which exonerates all but the two suspects. I believe no other neighbors had a part in this.

I thought Wh was a roofer ? I thought He told someone at work something that the employee found odd and called LE. There was also mention of LE possibly searching his work truck. I'll see if I can find that info. It's buried deep in this thread here somewhere. It's probably neither here nor there, just trying to figure out if he had an alibi (which would by no means make him innocent). I'm sure he was in on it. Just more wondering if and how she did it by herself or had help from him during that time.


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[PoirotryInMotion]

I thought Wh was a roofer ? I thought He told someone at work something that the employee found odd and called LE. There was also mention of LE possibly searching his work truck. I'll see if I can find that info. It's buried deep in this thread here somewhere. It's probably neither here nor there, just trying to figure out if he had an alibi (which would by no means make him innocent). I'm sure he was in on it. Just more wondering if and how she did it by herself or had help from him during that time.


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If he was a roofer, I missed that article--sorry! I'd read an article right after his arrest that stated he'd lost his job and was unemployed. Even if a roofer, though, I believe he was at the apt that day and fully involved.

 

[L1nux]

Neither one of the suspects was employed, so I'm leaning toward both being at the apartment that day when Savannah was enticed up there.

He was employed until he was jailed. He worked for a roofing company. He was arrested on an outstanding warrant for breaking a protection order (against BC) and had an outstanding fine. That was Tuesday I believe.

 

[racingislife9697]

If he was a roofer, I missed that article--sorry! I'd read an article right after his arrest that stated he'd lost his job and was unemployed. Even if a roofer, though, I believe he was at the apt that day and fully involved.

It may have been a local article that I read. And I agree.. he participated. Will we ever know what really happened ? So heart breaking.


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[georgiajean]

Thank you! The building layout was a bit confusing to me. Not that it's necessarily relevant; it just made me wonder about whether it was someone else who stole the clothing.

I hope I'm allowed to say this. But, honestly, I was wondering if the clothing thief might have been the person who reported the alleged banging in the bathroom. IF that person stole the clothing, might she think the police would believe her to be a suspect in Savanna's disappearance, since they had some negative interaction recently?

Not that police would jump to the conclusion that thief = kidnapper or murderer, but people do weird things if they think they might get in trouble, especially for something they didn't do. So, could the banging sounds have been made up to point suspicion someone else; the someone else who just happened to be guilty; BC?

The reason that seems relevant to me, is that the reported banging would lead us to believe that something likely happened to Savanna in BC's bathroom. But, it then complicates things because how could they get her outside and away from the building without being noticed? How could they clean up the bathroom so well that police don't seem to know if it's the crime scene?

I feel like what happened to Savanna could very likely have happened somewhere else, after she was transported to another location. But, then, what was the banging and shower sounds?

I just have a hard time imagining that they were able to kill Savanna, birth her baby, and carry them both out of the building without being seen or heard. Especially since Savanna's brother, mother and father all paid trips to BC's apartment within a couple of hour's time. They'd have to be incredibly lucky to carry a bloody (sorry) Savanna and a baby down 2 flights of stairs and out to a vehicle with no one seeing or hearing anything.

It would seem they were very lucky not to encounter any of Savanna's family members, what with them actively moving around in the building, then mom and brother in the parking lot to take him to work, then mom coming back, and dad knocking on the door. Not to mention not running into other neighbors in the building.

That's why I tend to think she was still alive and taken somewhere else. But then, what was the 20 minutes of banging? Unless that actually never happened.

I could be completely wrong, and again I'm not saying anyone lied or did something wrong. I just wonder if the banging really happened, because if it did, it really points to the crime having to have happened in BC's apartment, and I'm really skeptical of her and WH being able to pull that off without get caught red-handed, and also being able to wash away all the evidence.

Sorry, it's early and I'm rambling over my morning coffee. Hope my post makes sense.

You bring up a very interesting idea, that the 2nd floor folks were trying to take attention away from themselves. That would also explain their putting people on the trail of DK, the woman who lived across town and had nothing to do with the building.
However, the woman in that couple was quite a bit larger than Savanna. Hard to imagine what clothes of Savanna's she would wear? Maybe her late-stage maternity clothes? Not sure. But you are right, makes it easier to understand how they could clean up that crime scene if it didn't happen there.

 

[georgiajean]

Adding to your thoughts with my morning coffee ramble...

I believe LE have stated that the one who reported the banging noises in the bathroom is not a POI, along with the RSO who lives in another building on that street. IMO, (and I hate to say this), the bathroom banging may have been done by Savannah who was most likely still alive when giving birth to her baby, but likely gagged. Piecing a theory together here, based on the male suspect's strange story and comments--who I believe knew that eventually LE would find blood trace in the bathroom, and possibly the bloody towels/shoes he disposed of...(the first three apt searches were done with suspect cooperation and without warrant, and so not likely thorough forensic searches--just visual exam). So he wanted to concoct a story that would exclude his presence there during the homicide.

Neither one of the suspects was employed, so I'm leaning toward both being at the apartment that day when Savannah was enticed up there. I'm theorizing that after she got to the apartment, they gagged and bound her, putting her into the tub to try to induce labor (re the bizarre story of the male suspect). I don't believe they'd have (intially at least) tried to do a C-section for fear of it killing the baby (who was their only consideration, here). I believe Savannah may have been confined to the tub and perhaps might have done the banging--during labor or struggle or to try to attract attention and call for help. Theorizing that the baby may have been born there in the bathroom, and then removed from the apartment via the large suitcase and laundry basket (witnessed by either the mom or another tenant--can't remember who stated they saw those repeated actions after the murder). Savannah may then have been killed in the bathroom as well, and her body (taped in bag) removed and dumped at some point later, maybe in the middle of the night when there were no witnesses. And then the bathroom bleached/cleaned up, to pass at least an initial visual exam (which yes, would include behind the shower curtain, in closets, etc.).

Such an unspeakably horrific case, but wanted to throw out my theory which exonerates all but the two suspects. I believe no other neighbors had a part in this.

Thanks for adding your thoughts this morning! Yes, WH was employed that weekend, he lost his job when he went to jail. LE checked his alibi for Sat/Sun, and that is when they talked with his co-worker who mentioned WH might have a baby at the apartment. I remember those 4 men that Grand Forks LE were talking to, and imagine they were on the roofing crew WH worked on...

I think WH told the story that the baby was already born when he arrived home from work around/after 2:30 because he had an alibi until then, and it cleared him more (in his pea brain). your point about why he told about the towels and shoes makes sense. Fits with the idea that lairs tell some bit of the truth often....

 

[georgiajean]

I just have a hard time imagining that they were able to kill Savanna, birth her baby, and carry them both out of the building without being seen or heard. Especially since Savanna's brother, mother and father all paid trips to BC's apartment within a couple of hour's time. They'd have to be incredibly lucky to carry a bloody (sorry) Savanna and a baby down 2 flights of stairs and out to a vehicle with no one seeing or hearing anything.

It would seem they were very lucky not to encounter any of Savanna's family members, what with them actively moving around in the building, then mom and brother in the parking lot to take him to work, then mom coming back, and dad knocking on the door. Not to mention not running into other neighbors in the building. .

(respectfully snippped)

Good point! . 2nd floor neighbors leave after 2, WH gets home around 2:30, brother goes up around 2:30,, father goes up around 2:40, mom and brother go out around 2:45, mom returns about 3:15, mom does laundry (using apartment laundry), mom goes up about 4, LE searches about 4:30. Not to mention any other apartment dwellers!. A lot of traffic!!

 

[Bently]

Timeline of Saturday before LE involved:
• On Saturday, Aug 19th....Savanna (SLG) texted with her boyfriend and mom around 1:30 pm. http://www.dglobe.com/news/4318025-timeline-savanna-lafontaine-greywind-case
• BC knocked on their door and offered SLG $20 to help BC with fitting a dress. http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/ne...appearance-pregnant-fargo-woman-still-mystery (later on, mom indicated that BC had tried to get SLG to help the week before, too. http://people.com/crime/savanna-greywind-missing-murder-mom-reacts/
• Mother concerned due to previous interactions with BC (SLG talked on FB about problems with her clothes being taken from the community washer/dryer, and seeing an upstairs neighbor wearing them—not sure if it was BC). http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/ne...appearance-pregnant-fargo-woman-still-mystery
• SLG Ordered pizza before leaving apartment.
• SLG Left keys and wallet. Car in parking lot. Phone may be with her.
• SLG Went to 3rd floor apartment to help with modeling/fitting a dress.http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/ne...appearance-pregnant-fargo-woman-still-mystery
• SLG Was supposed to give younger brother ride to work before 3 pm. Brother goes upstairs around 2:30, knocks on door, no answer, hears sound he thinks is sewing machine. http://www.dglobe.com/news/4318025-timeline-savanna-lafontaine-greywind-case
• Father goes upstairs about 15 min. later, knocks on door, BC comes to door and tells father that they aren't finished yet and SLG can't come. http://www.dglobe.com/news/4318025-timeline-savanna-lafontaine-greywind-case
• Mother drives younger brother to work, returns about 3:10 and does some laundry, thinking Savanna is in her room .http://www.dglobe.com/news/4318025-timeline-savanna-lafontaine-greywind-case
• Around 4:00, after discovering SLG is not home, mother goes upstairs, knocks on door, is told that SLG has left. She reported SLG missing at about 4:30. http://www.dglobe.com/news/4318025-timeline-savanna-lafontaine-greywind-case
•
Timeline, From the interview with LE (law enforcement)--Lt. Jason Nelson.
• First consensual search occurred after 4:37. Saw sewing project on floor. WH and BC were at the apartment.
• Second consensual search occurred 10:30, with detective and supervisor. They talked to BC and WH again, and visually searched the house. BC explained that SLG left shortly after her father came up (that was about 2:45). LE was there because SLG ‘s mom had called LE again to express concern about SLG ‘s safety. LE spoke to SLG ‘s parents, explained that SLG was an adult, adults can leave on their own.
• Third consensual search Sunday, about 6:30 pm. Detective talked to SLG's parents and went up to talk to BC and search the apartment.. WH was NOT there for this search. Detective made search of larger apartment building area, crawl spaces, etc. Talked with neighbors.
• WH arrested late Tues/early Wed morning, for outstanding warrant for violating no-contact order for BC. That no contact order had been lifted earlier in the month, Aug 10. Owed about $350. Detectives interviewed him. He provided an alibi for Sat. and Sun.
• Official Crime Scene, Wednesday. Late Wed. morning, after doing follow-up interviews on WH's alibi, in talking with some co-workers, WH had made some comments to co-workers that led LE to establish that a crime may have been committed. WH said something to a co-worker indicating a baby might be at the apartment.
• Wed. morning, they put both BC and WH under surveillance.
• Wed. Judge-approved search warrant, based on statements made by co-worker.
• Thurs, Executed search warrant 2 pm. BC was home, WH was at work. Recovered baby. LE was shocked but pleasantly surprised. Baby was in good condition, went to hospital for wellness check. As they entered apartment, read BC her rights, then baby was found and they took BC to police station while they continued searching apartment. Wanted to interview her later, after they had more evidence, to then check against what BC said during interrogation. They did ask her about Savanna, and BC denied anything.
• Interviewer asked, Why didn't they execute a search warrant earlier? Answer: LE had no information that a crime had occurred. Needed a criminal nexus. Didn't get that until late Wed. morning. The search warrant was signed Wed., and then they did constant surveillance to determine where SLG and/or baby were, to get them alive. Wanted to see if BC or WH were going to an off site location. Fear was if they acted too soon, and SLG or baby were off site, they'd never find them. 3 layers of surveillance.
• The Jeep was BC/WH’s only vehicle. Cadaver dogs did NOT hit on this vehicle. (Note: they did not mention WH’s work vehicle??)
• LE has No idea where baby was born.
• LE has No idea how old baby is.
• Sunday night, SLG‘s body found. People searching farmstead alerted LE to the area, and unrelated people recreating in kayaks saw her body. LE has determined Farmstead is not related at all to SLG‘s case.
• LE said repeatedly that they did not have criminal nexus until Wed. the situation with the upstairs neighbors and SLG‘s disappearance was suspicious to them from the beginning, but they didn’t have a criminal nexus to start with search warrants. They have a very strong case, and they are continuing to work and collect evidence to fill in gaps.

Interviews:
http://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...finding-Savanna-Greywinds-body-442297803.html
http://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...e-Savannas-body-was-discovered-442298143.html

:bump:

:tyou:

 

[Whiskers16]

You bring up a very interesting idea, that the 2nd floor folks were trying to take attention away from themselves. That would also explain their putting people on the trail of DK, the woman who lived across town and had nothing to do with the building.
However, the woman in that couple was quite a bit larger than Savanna. Hard to imagine what clothes of Savanna's she would wear? Maybe her late-stage maternity clothes? Not sure. But you are right, makes it easier to understand how they could clean up that crime scene if it didn't happen there.

I'm wondering the opposite - if the people reporting hearing all the banging were exaggerating and just looking to get some attention and inject themselves into a story in their building getting lots of attention. JMO.

 

[racingislife9697]

I'm wondering the opposite - if the people reporting hearing all the banging were exaggerating and just looking to get some attention and inject themselves into a story in their building getting lots of attention. JMO.

OMG never thought of that!!! Entirely possible. We don't even know for sure that hat happened. I like the way you think!


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[L1nux]

OMG never thought of that!!! Entirely possible. We don't even know for sure that hat happened. I like the way you think!


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JMO, I would tend to think they're injecting themselves for attention. Also, the media can be relentless and might have coerced them to be interviewed. I do not believe this neighbor is the clothes thief as she and Savanna appear to be sized significantly different. I believe they probably heard something in the bathroom.

 

[patty24]

Well, the quote from Savanna's mom in post #823 says she didn't see this coming and had no idea her daughter was in danger, so......

Oh, I believe the People Magazine article indicated mom knew right away that things weren't right.I'll check for a link...


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[patty24]

I'm wondering the opposite - if the people reporting hearing all the banging were exaggerating and just looking to get some attention and inject themselves into a story in their building getting lots of attention. JMO.

I believe the neighbors reporting the noise , reported it before learning of the actual crime.
Too coincidental that they heard this banging in the bathroom and mentioned it to the authorities before anyone even knew what really happened to Savanna.


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[MsMarple]

Oh, I believe the People Magazine article indicated mom knew right away that things weren't right.I'll check for a link...


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I think Norberta (Savanna's mom) was alarmed and suspicious pretty early - she reported Savanna's disappearance within about a three-hour period. To me that sounds like an alarmed mom.

IMO her mom was more worried for Savanna's safety and it didn't occur to her someone was looking to steal Haisley. IOW she never saw that scenario coming. Who the heck would? Ugh.

Here's IMO the best article about what Norberta was going through. From August 23, before Savanna's body was found:

"I immediately knew something was wrong because her car is here," her mother said. "She's eight months pregnant. Her feet were swollen, so she wouldn't have taken up walking like that. There was pizza here that she hadn't eaten. She would not just leave that lady's apartment and go somewhere."

Savanna's mother reported her missing to Fargo police about 4:30 p.m. Saturday, Aug. 19. Since then, Fargo police, aided by other law enforcement agencies, have searched extensively for the woman without success.
...
"She's in danger," her mother said. "Something's wrong."

http://www.inforum.com/news/4316292...appearance-pregnant-fargo-woman-still-mystery

More at the link. And as for the neighbors who heard the banging, I'm inclined to believe them, mainly because there were two of them. That means if the story was made up then both would have conspired to lie and report false information to LE, which could cause a lot of trouble for them down the line. For me anyway, as opposed to other people quoted in msm who may have been seeking the spotlight, this is a couple living in the same apartment building and who will continue to encounter family members in the future. JMO.

 

[patty24]

I think Norberta (Savanna's mom) was alarmed and suspicious pretty early - she reported Savanna's disappearance within about a three-hour period. To me that sounds like an alarmed mom.

IMO her mom was more worried for Savanna's safety and it didn't occur to her someone was looking to steal Haisley. IOW she never saw that scenario coming. Who the heck would? Ugh.

Here's IMO the best article about what Norberta was going through. From August 23, before Savanna's body was found:



http://www.inforum.com/news/4316292...appearance-pregnant-fargo-woman-still-mystery

More at the link. And as for the neighbors who heard the banging, I'm inclined to believe them, mainly because there were two of them. That means if the story was made up then both would have conspired to lie and report false information to LE, which could cause a lot of trouble for them down the line. For me anyway, as opposed to other people quoted in msm who may have been seeking the spotlight, this is a couple living in the same apartment building and who will continue to encounter family members in the future. JMO.

Thanks for that link.... was out when I responded earlier and hadn't a chance to look for it yet.
Mom definitely sounded the alarm quickly and was suspicious something was wrong, but I agree, she probably never thought to this extent. Such a heinous crime, its unfathomable!


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[ann1989]

Savanna's family knows her best, and they never mentioned that they found it unusual that she went upstairs. If they didn't think she would do that, they would have contacted authorities even sooner.

I'm pretty sure I read in the beginning that Savanna's mom was home, but was in her bedroom or another room of the house so Savanna just texted her to let her know where she was going.

her mom did say she was very worried because she got bad vibes as soon as she text her she was going up there and i think they called the police very soon... They didn't even give it the slightest thought she may have went or been anywhere else

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[margarita25]

As stated sbove, how could anyone have ever imagined....

 

[ann1989]

He was employed until he was jailed. He worked for a roofing company. He was arrested on an outstanding warrant for breaking a protection order (against BC) and had an outstanding fine. That was Tuesday I believe.

I thought I read somewhere that he lost his job over the weekend when he never returned the company truck

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[Rocco]

I thought I read somewhere that he lost his job over the weekend when he never returned the company truck

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We know he was at work on Monday because that's when he told a co-worker about a baby.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

her mom did say she was very worried because she got bad vibes as soon as she text her she was going up there and i think they called the police very soon... They didn't even give it the slightest thought she may have went or been anywhere else

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The way *I* understand it is that her mom knew she went upstairs and was NOT immediately concerned WHEN she went upstairs. However by 4:30 when she went up to look for Savanna and BC told her Savanna had left, THEN she immediately knew something was wrong, because Savanna's car was still there but she wasn't home and wasn't answering her phone. That is when police were contacted.

What I am trying to point out is that her mother did NOT say that she was instantly concerned about Savanna going upstairs. I think she would have gone with her if she was.