NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[Synthia1021]

all three cases get error messages saying "cannot be found" looks like they have been removed. Maybe some news soon!
532UFNH

525UFNH

527UFNH

 

[hmg]

This sounds like a case of a husband/ partner committing the crime and perhaps no family or an estranged family. I'm always amazed in these cases why other people in the family don't report these cases but look at some of the cases we've dealt with on the Cold Case board... many of them show that no one in the family reported them missing because they assumed they were alive and had left the area, etc.

Another possibility given the possible ethnicity is a family who was here illegally. There was a case in my area where no one would claim an UID because they are certain she is an illegal immigrant.

 

[lorelei]

all three cases get error messages saying "cannot be found" looks like they have been removed. Maybe some news soon!

I hope so!
I tried to check who to email on Doe Network site, but couldn't tell which person I should contact. I guess I'll try to figure it out again in a few days if we don't see any updates on them being ID'd or something?


Also in case they haven't been identified, I did find another article (from 1987) which says that Tammy Belanger was ruled out. I think shadowangel brought her up as a possible match.

 

[lorelei]

Just wanted to post to say that these Jane Does have not been identified yet.

I had been hoping that LE had figured out who they are because their pages were taken off Doe Network but they were removed from the site for other reasons. They are still unidentified and the cases are still open, also they are still listed on the UDRS site.

I can't figure out how to link directly to the pages on UDRS, but if you search for unidentified females in New Hampshire their cases are the only ones that come up- a woman and a girl found 1985 and two girls found in 2000.
https://identifyus.org/?p=search

 

[Donjeta]

Police are still looking at this case:

http://www.wmur.com/news/19013578/detail.html

There's also a video and a picture of the place they were found. They were indeed found in barrels, first the adult and one child in 1985 and then in 2000 another barrel was found somewhere nearby when the case got assigned to a new trooper who went looking at the crime scene.

"In November 1985, a hunter found a tipped-over, 55-gallon drum near Bear Brook State Park, not far from a burned-down convenience store.
"You could see basically packaging of some type, and as he examined closer, he noticed there was a skull there," [state police Detective John] Sonia said."

It is still unclear what the precise relationship is but two children are related to the adult by DNA. I wish they'd say if it looks like the children have the same father but guess they don't know? What do you reckon are the chances that they have been reported missing separately? That only the children or some of them are on the missing persons lists? Or that only the woman is. If she's a transient she may have gone missing a while before being killed and may not have had the children with her then.

*Snip*



"Sonia said the four could be from Canada or transients. There are no reports of four people missing together from that time.

With a case this cold, investigators said they know forensic science is one way to get answers. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has produced composites of three victims based on their remains, but the descriptions are rather broad with large age ranges and race varying from Caucasian to Native American.

"When you have bodies that are outdoors for a long period of time, they are being exposed to the weather extremes, heat, cold and bacteria,' said Kim Rumrill of the stte police forensics lab. "All these things work against you trying to find a DNA profile."

Investigators are now turning to water. A new technique links isotopes found in drinking water to different regions of the country. Those isotopes are found in human hair, and samples from the adult victim are now being tested.

"If she traveled they can get the travel history because they analyze segments of the hair, each segment separately," Fallon said.

Police said it's the first of three steps -- learn where they're from, discover who they are, and then find the killer.

"There's a lot of, I guess, force involved," Sonia said. "Again, it's pretty brutal. So that shows some kind of level of intimacy to take those, to do that to the bodies and to dispose of them the way they disposed of them."

State police are asking anyone with information to contact them at 603-271-2663 or nhsp.intel@dos.nh.gov."

 

[thefragile7393]

*bump

 

[MadeaBecBec]

55 Gallon Drum Barrells are usually stamped with identifying numbers on the bottoms and on the lids, they should be traceable to at least the manufacturer of the drums and generally the drum manufacturers keep records of where and who receives them! I wonder where that lead took them to, does anybody know? Even if the murderer/s tried to file away the numbers, there is a way to pull the serial numbers back out....

When I first saw this on NCMEC, I immediately thought of Freda Denman, her daughter, Sheri Johnson would've been about the same age as the victim found with the adult... Freda could have given birth to two more children during that time period and from every thing I have read about her husband, Henry Lee Harbsion/Johnson, he had issues with females and seems capable of doing something of this nature! Freda had a dental plate and there is no dental report on any of the sites that have these Janes listed, except for the child #2 (found in 2000) it mentions a noticeable overbite, btw, is the only child without a reconstruction composite!
Here is the NCMEC listing http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...seNum=1100629&orgPrefix=NCMU&searchLang=en_US
AND
Here is their case numbers and listings on Namus - identifyus.org
UP # Date Found Location Case Number Sex Race Age Range
2176 May 9, 2000 NH, Merrimack 104-00 Female White 1 to 3
2175 May 9, 2000 NH, Merrimack 103-00 Female White 4 to 8
2174 Nov 10, 1985 NH, Merrimack 85-1050 Female White 23 to 32
2173 Nov 10, 1985 NH, Merrimack 85-1051 Female White 5 to 10

I'll be back, with a side by side of Freda, Sheri and the two victims found in the same barrel.... Ugh, that gets to me to post it!! So wicked, whoever did this!!

 

[MadeaBecBec]

Here are the side by sides of Freda Denman and Merrimack Mom Doe and Sheri Johnson and Merrimack Child #1

 

[Blackwatch]

I don't know if this case rings any bells or not, and I can't remember all the details, but there was a family, mother, young girl (I think), a female relative of the mother, and possibly another woman/girl. They went to visit an ex husband (child visitation) and they disappeared, supposedly, around a Wal Mart on their way home. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Ada Wong]

I don't know if this case rings any bells or not, and I can't remember all the details, but there was a family, mother, young girl (I think), a female relative of the mother, and possibly another woman/girl. They went to visit an ex husband (child visitation) and they disappeared, supposedly, around a Wal Mart on their way home. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Wendy Camp. That case happened in Shamrock, Texas in 1992.

 

[carbuff]

I lived in New Hampshire when the woman and child were discovered, and I never could get them out of my mind. It seems so unfair that she should be dumped like that, without a chance to live her life.

 

[carbuff]

Status of investigation as of last spring:

http://www.wmur.com/news/19013578/detail.html

 

[carbuff]

What brought me to websleuths in the first place: I stumbled across this the other day:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/oct/16/barrel_bodies_case/

The startling similarity in methods led me to send this message to NH police:

Hi there. I was doing online research on an entirely different subject the other day when I stumbled across this article on a Kansas newspaper website, about a serial killer who disposed of several of his victims in 55-gallon drums:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/oct/16/barrel_bodies_case/

It reminded me strongly of the bodies of woman and child found in Bear Brook park in 1985. I was living in NH at the time and couldn't get the image of people discarded like that out of my mind.

I realize this is unlikely to be more than coincidence, but if the woman in NH had told her friends she was moving to take a job with this person, that might explain why nobody reported her missing -- they could have thought they just lost touch with her. The dates also match.

Today I got back this very nice response:

Thanks for taking the time to pass this information along. I’ll make sure it gets to the appropriate investigators. Whether it’s anything or not, we don’t know yet but if concerned citizens like you didn’t pass along observations like this, we’d never be able to investigate whether there’s a connection or not. Thank you very much.

Still no closer to knowing who she might have been, however.

 

[carbuff]

Here are the side by sides of Freda Denman and Merrimack Mom Doe and Sheri Johnson and Merrimack Child #1

Did you ever submit these?

Someone mentioned earlier about the teeth and bone testing -- yes, that is being done right now, according to this: http://www.wmur.com/news/19013578/detail.html (somebody else posted the link earlier, but I'll repeat it because it's worth looking at again).

 

[carbuff]

Another article from last March when the case was reopened -- includes a map of the area where the bodies were found.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090327/FRONTPAGE/903270313/0/REPOSITORY

It does answer one question I've had, which is that they aren't positive either of the two younger ones is a girl.

 

[carbuff]

The NAMUS case numbers are:

2173, the 5-10 year old female, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2173, death estimated 1982-1985
2174, the adult, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2174, death estimated 1982-1985
2175, the 4-8 year old, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2175
2176, the 1-3 year old, at https://identifyus.org/cases/2176 -- Melissa Bustamante has been ruled out.

I notice that 2175 and 2176, the two younger children, are listed as having died as recently as 2000, the year the barrel was found. Apparently they don't know for sure whether the second barrel was there when the first one was discovered. It was found very close by, and while it might have been overlooked, it might also have been dumped later. Weird but possible. So the 4-8 year old (the one who apparently isn't listed) and the toddler might have disappeared as late as 2000.

 

[CarlK90245]

Here are the only instances in Charley Project of a mother disappearing with two daughters in 1985 or prior. There are no instances of a mother disappearing with three daughters. (BTW, I have seen nothing yet to indicate that the fourth victim was ever shown to be related to the other three.)

Mary Stuart and daughters Jessie and Fannie

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stuart_mary.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stuart_jessie.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stuart_fannie.html

Elaine Yates and daughters Kelly and Kimberly

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/yates_kelly.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/yates_kimberly.html

(Too Old of a case) Sharon Giusti and daughters Michelle and Clara
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/giusti_sharon.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/giusti_michelle.html

The Stuart case seems to be a pretty good possible except for the geography (California) and the time-frame (8 years prior) if you accept the premise that the fourth victim is unrelated.

Earlier on this thread (over a year ago), Sleuthster mentioned the Yates case, and was going to call it in, but then thought better of it because of discrepancies in height and age for Elaine. I have found no indication that it was ever called in.

Given that the height estimate for the adult female UID is from 5'2" to 5'7" (a pretty wide range for a complete skeleton), and the estimated age range is not that far below Elaine's age.

does anyone think that either of these two might be worth a try?

 

[carbuff]

Here are the only instances in Charley Project of a mother disappearing with two daughters in 1985 or prior. There are no instances of a mother disappearing with three daughters. (BTW, I have seen nothing yet to indicate that the fourth victim was ever shown to be related to the other three.)

Yes, they still don't know whether the 4-8 year old is related. Or at least haven't said anything if they do.

For that matter, I haven't seen anything that indicates they've confirmed it's a mother and daughters. They're related, but might be sisters, or possibly aunt and nieces.

The NAMUS and other sites list the toddler as a daughter, but in the flurry of publicity last spring, the investigators said the gender couldn't be determined.

I will check those potential matches tomorrow, after I recover from this evening's revelry I thought the Yates abduction happened after the adult had been found?

I had run across this one earlier, a 6-year-old missing from Illinois. Notice the overbite: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2747

 

[CarlK90245]

Yes, they still don't know whether the 4-8 year old is related. Or at least haven't said anything if they do.

For that matter, I haven't seen anything that indicates they've confirmed it's a mother and daughters. They're related, but might be sisters, or possibly aunt and nieces.

The NAMUS and other sites list the toddler as a daughter, but in the flurry of publicity last spring, the investigators said the gender couldn't be determined.

My screen was for multiple females missing from same city on same date, so I would have picked up any cases of sisters or mother/daughter/son, or aunt/nieces or (as long as they disappeared from the same city on the same date).

I also picked up a case of a black mother with a daughter and two sons, another of three sisters and two brothers in 1945, and several other cases of two and three female friends disappearing together.

 

[Aphra]

Here are the only instances in Charley Project of a mother disappearing with two daughters in 1985 or prior. There are no instances of a mother disappearing with three daughters. (BTW, I have seen nothing yet to indicate that the fourth victim was ever shown to be related to the other three.)

Mary Stuart and daughters Jessie and Fannie
View attachment 6851
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stuart_mary.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stuart_jessie.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stuart_fannie.html

Elaine Yates and daughters Kelly and Kimberly
View attachment 6852
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/yates_kelly.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/yates_kimberly.html

(Too Old of a case) Sharon Giusti and daughters Michelle and Clara
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/giusti_sharon.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/giusti_michelle.html

The Stuart case seems to be a pretty good possible except for the geography (California) and the time-frame (8 years prior) if you accept the premise that the fourth victim is unrelated.

Earlier on this thread (over a year ago), Sleuthster mentioned the Yates case, and was going to call it in, but then thought better of it because of discrepancies in height and age for Elaine. I have found no indication that it was ever called in.

Given that the height estimate for the adult female UID is from 5'2" to 5'7" (a pretty wide estimate for a complete skeleton), and the estimated age range is not that far below Elaine's age.

does anyone think that either of these two might be worth a try?

Sorry to go off topic, but something about Mary Stuart reminds me of this UI found in California in 2006. Her info doesn't match up exactly but the expressions and face are so similar, it's almost haunting.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/593ufca.html