NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 5

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I looked up the Right To Know Law in N.H. The jest of the law is that the public has access to notes, minutes, etc. of public meetings of public enities..

It has nothing to do with access to Law Enforcement, evidence, or work documents.

Again, Fred Murray thinks he has the right to access confidential law enforcement investigations and records and evidence, but he does not.

Again his "theory" is that Maura meet with foul play and could be in "danger".

But again, the Judge will want evidence as to his conclusion. What a person "thinks" and what can be used as evidence(as in facts)are two different things.

I hope that Fred Murray did not spend a lot of money on the lawyers.

It is too bad that this will only lead to more frustration for Fred Murray......

Judge: What factual evidence is before the court that supports your conclusion that Maura meet with foul play.

Fred: Well I am her Father, I know my daughter would not "runaway", that she would call, that she loves her Big Bill and her Family.

Judge: I feel for you Mr. Murray, but I asked if you have any evidence that supports your conclusion that Maura meet with foul play. Obviously you are not impartial or unbiased in your conclusion. But the court deals with facts and evidence, not what a Father "thinks".

The most compelling reason favoring disclosure in this case centers on the fact that Maura could very well still be in danger and disclosure of the information compiled by authorities could help locate her," according to the suit.

Well the Judge will want evidence supporting this "compelling" reason. If there is information in the file that could help locate Maura, I would think that LE would be better equiped to to use that information, rather then Fred Murray.

He's now sued Lynch, Attorney General Kelly Ayotte, state police and other law-enforcement agencies seeking the release of information tied to the investigation, such as accident reports; an inventory of items taken from her car; a copy of his daughter's computer hard drive; and a surveillance

According to the lawsuit, Fred Murray was denied the records "on the grounds that production called for confidential records created ... or would constitute an invasion of privacy.

If that was the reason given, that is most likely the ruling the Judge will issue also.

I have more sympathy for people who's relatives are actually dead and will be spending the Holiday Season without them. They don't have the luxury to "speculate" what happened to their loved ones. They know.........

Fred Murray only "assumes" that Maura meet with foul play, but he refuses to entertain the notion that Maura is alive and well and on her own.

If I was in the situation that Fred Murray is in, I would never, ever, believe that my adult child was dead until I actually saw his/her body, or had a DNA report or someone had confessed.

Most parents would feel this way and would not believe that their child is dead until they had actual proof of this.

Until there is proof, most parents would never, ever give up "hope" that their child would be found. I still have great difficulty in trying to understand the attitude of this family in "writing" off Maura for dead.

Any adult over the age of 18, can leave on their own accord and if they never want to contact their family that is their choice. They don't have to live their life according to what other people expect and want.

800,000 people whom are adults go "missing" each year in the USA.

10,000 in New York City alone..........
 
Cyberlaw - I can see all sides on this. I can understand LE saying we can't divulge to family members all of our investigation, because family members are often the cause of people going missing. Also, LE is dealing with the fact that Maura is an adult and has a right to be missing, and if they've found her and she doesn't want her whereabouts known, that's her legal right. So I understand LE's position.

I can also see the Murray's side, they are being eaten up inside and if they thought there was some evidence they didn't know, they have the money and energy to pursue it and maybe find her. If they could see all the investigation, probably they feel they could have a better chance to find her.

This is such a catch-22. She has a right to go missing if she wants. She has no legal obligations whatsoever, she can go wherever she chooses.

But the other side is, her family is in horrible pain wondering.
 
But Fred Murray will be well advised to hire a private firm if he wants to take concrete measures in his own investigation. He will have access to the Private Investigators files as he has hired him privately. Fred Murray will be the client and I can safely say that all information that the Private Investigator will deem "important" will be turned over to Fred Murray. Fred Murray is paying the bill of the private investigator, not the tax payer. I do somehow doubt that the Private Investigator will uncover information as to where Maura is or "clues' to the circumstances of her running away. But it just might appease Fred Murray......

But, if a person "thinks" that their interests in relieving their "misery" into not knowing where their adult child is living, against the interest and rights of the missing person is equal, it is not. I don't see this as a catch 22. You know why. Because LE will not be damed if they don't release this information, but if they do release it unlawfully, they could set them selves up for a huge lawsuit, if confidential, private information is released.

There are specific firms that specialized in trying to find missing and runaway people. Obviously Fred Murray will rather sue people to get information that he 'speculates" may help him. I would accept defeat, because legally I don't have a strong position, but I would spend my money more wisely and hire someone who works and reports to me. That is how I would take measure in my own investigation

Just because a person wants to know something, feels they have "right" to know, does not mean that they will find out or have this information dislcosed to them.

20/20 hindsight is great. We can treat our family members anyway we like, but when the person finally has enough and decides to "ditch' the family, they are the first one to say: Find my missing adult child, they are not in my life. I have no idea why they left, they are part of our family and we miss them.

The missing/runaway person: Goes, finally I can live my life on my own choice, by my own expectations, do what I want, without any influence or interference from my family. I am on my own and happy and I want nothing to do with the people who are my family members who made me miserable.

Then the family members go to LE: Find my missing adult child..........and if you don't find him/her and tell me where they are, or where they are living, and bring them home to me. You are not conducting a proper investigation.......because as far as we are concerned, it is up to LE and everyone else in the community to help us find our missing adult child, as our adult child as decided to "ditch" our family and that is not acceptable to us.

Please...... just make sure that this person is found so we can be happy, so we can have them home for the holidays, so we can see them again as we miss them so much.

But then again , ask the missing adult child how much he/she misses his/her family. There are two sides to every story.......again we have yet to hear Maura's.

Things add up over a period of time, it is not just one situation that determines if a person "runs away". It is usually that this one situation is the final one that pushes them over the edge.

So the moral of the story: Treat your loved ones like you would do your friends. We can choose our friends, but not our family. But like friends, whom you can decide not to see anymore, the same thing applies to families. A person is free to "express" their anger at their family by running away and not contacting them again. It is often in the best interest of the "runaway' to do this, but again not in the best interest of the people they left behind.

People don't seem to understand the point of running away from your family and not contacting them is a form of "consequences' for their past actions and now you feel that you want to "punish" them for their past treatment of you.

So you runaway, you don't phone or contact them, knowing full well that they may be 'wrecked' with misery in not knowing where you are.

That is the point.........and the longer time goes by, the less there is an inclination to "phone home" or contact your family.

Because it is not like you "need" your family......they need you.
 
I looked up the Right To Know Law in N.H. The jest of the law is that the public has access to notes, minutes, etc. of public meetings of public enities..

from cyberlaw above......


With all due respect, my hopes are that you continue to practice law in cyberspace. This is not the issue here...at all.;)

There are so,so many families that don't *need* or want their children. Everywhere on this board , in the news and thousands upon thousands of non
reported cases show this. world.wide issue
 
Part of the Lawsuit and disclosure that Fred Murray is depending on is the Freedom of Information Act(which he has been denied access to the requested documents) and the "Right to Know Act" in New Hampshire.

The issue of the lawsuit is that he feels that Maura has been harmed and is in danger and he "needs" these documents to "save" her. The position of LE is that Maura ran away from her "loving" family. So again, I am on topic and the issue is related.

I fail to understand how he feels either one of these two Acts are going to get him what he wants. I am relying upon information that has previously been posted recently about his lawsuit. It is all part and parcel of Fred Murrays futile endeavour to get access to confidential and private documents.

So again I fail to see the logic of a case that (a)has been previously been decided that access to LE work related documents under the FOIA is exempt and(b) that the other Act does not apply.

I fail to see how he feels that by taking the "whole" government to court that he will get what he wants when he has no legal entitlement to it.

Unless evidence is found that is factual and relevant, until any circumstances or information changes, this case will be a "missing person" case until anything to the contray is found supporting Fred Murray's "speculative assumption" that Maura meet with harm.

Petra: Sorry to disapoint you, but there is no "hope" that I will practice in Cyberspace. My practice is in real life with real clients. I do "hope" you understand the difference between Cyberspace and real life. In real life Lawyers go to real law schools, earn a real law degree and file real motions and have to meet their clients who are real people.

There are a lot of children who are not wanted and are abused by their parents. But again I fail to see what that has to do with an adult who ran away from her family. Again, I wish people would understand the difference between children and adults. This is a "misplaced" adult, not an abused child.

You logic skills are just on par there Petra........

Do you know what the latest trend is. Parents running away from their adult children and "ditching" them.........so it does work both ways.

Any adult is free to walk away from their life, and you know what. They don't have to tell anyone either. They don't have to inform their "loved" ones.....they can just up and start a new life.........it happens over 800K times a year in the USA alone.Child abuse is against the law, adult who go missing voluntarly is not against the law and is it not against the 'public interest" for a safe society.

That is why people have a lukewarm response to a case of a voluntary missing adult where there is no evidence of foul play...or a crime being committed.
 
Cyberlaw,

This is the Missing but not forgotten Forum. This forum is for Information and Family Support of those missing but not forgotten.

I am sure that Maura's family and loved ones would appreciate you limiting your ***opinions*** to the Missing/Located Forum Discussion, the place for case discussion and opinion regarading all cases on the Missing/Located Forum.

regarding your quote:

Cyberlaw said:
We can treat our family members anyway we like, but when the person finally has enough and decides to "ditch' the family, they are the first one to say: Find my missing adult child, they are not in my life. I have no idea why they left, they are part of our family and we miss them.

The missing/runaway person: Goes, finally I can live my life on my own choice, by my own expectations, do what I want, without any influence or interference from my family. I am on my own and happy and I want nothing to do with the people who are my family members who made me miserable.
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I continue to wonder how it is you can be so certain that any of Maura's family treated her "anyway (they) like" and have no "idea why they left" and that they made Maura "miserable".

I happen to know several people who knew Maura and her family before she went missing. I have never had anyone relate to me that she felt that she was treated poorly or that she was miserable. All indications are that Maura was a very happy young woman...........no one has denied that she, like many young people, was living a stressful situation: nursing school, achieving the grades to maintain her full scolarship while working 2 jobs in order to have funds, being sad about being so far from the love of her life, and knowing that her sister and boyfriend faced deployment to Iraq or Afganistan where soldiers were losing their lives.

How is it that YOU, a person who does not know Maura, her family or her friends, can state as a *FACT* that Maura's misery resulting from her families treatment is the cause of her missing?

It is your right to post your opinion. I refuse to debate you. But, it is important that readers do not confuse any of our opinions with fact.

And, I do find it my duty to point out to readers that you are posting your theory as fact along with you stating in prior postings ( that were accidentally erased along with numerous posts ) that you are/were a run away because of your family. I do not recall IF you said that they now know where you are, but frankly, it is very narrow minded of you to believe and to insist that any missing adult ran away for the same reasons as you chose unless you have factual evidence.

Because the moderators specifically changed the Missing Persons Forum because of posts that were upsetting to families, I respectfully request that you move your posts to the proper forum. I may not be Maura's family, but I find your opinion that they caused Maura to be miserable and were the motivating force behind her disappearance very offensive. I am quite confident the Murray's are in agreement. Therefore, on their behalf, I would appreciate that you at least follow the Websleuth guidelines. Please allow them the opportunity to come to this thread for support and not be subjected to your criticism as you discuss and provide your opinion/theory.
 
Gabby said:
<snip>


keep reminding us about 20/20 or me and my mind will forget
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Please note the following change:


ABC 20/20 had announced to the Murray Family that Maura would be featured in the 01/06/06 episode - this coming Friday. According to an annoucement on www.mauramurray.com ABC flew Maura's boyfriend and his mother to New York for interviews and toured the area in which Maura went missing with Fred Murray, her father.

However, the following, was posted on www.mauramurray by Sharon; I am posting here with her permission.

FYI:

Sharonfromwww.mauramurray.com said:

The assistant producer for the ABC 20/20 Show has just notified me that the show featuring Maura will not air this Friday, 01/06/06.

It has tentatively been rescheduled for an undetermined date in February.



"Our help is from the Lord, who created heaven and earth." Psalm 24:8
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Thank you for clarification, Peabody.

Bumping for Maura and her loved ones.
 
PIs working for free to find UMass student
By Jessica Fargen
Wednesday, January 4, 2006 - Updated: 07:43 AM EST


A team of a dozen private investigators is taking a fresh look at the case of missing college student Maura Murray after her family charged that New Hampshire authorities didn’t do enough to find the woman they last saw two years ago.

<snip>

“It’s a real mystery,” said Thomas Shamshak, who is part of the investigative team.
“Maura vanished. Could Maura be alive? Yeah, I think the family would hope that she went someplace else and may be living. But there’s also the possibility she’s not alive.”


View complete article at Link:

http://news.bostonherald.com/localR...779&format=text
 
PIs working for free to find UMass student
By Jessica Fargen
Wednesday, January 4, 2006 - Updated: 07:43 AM EST


A team of a dozen private investigators is taking a fresh look at the case of missing college student Maura Murray after her family charged that New Hampshire authorities didn’t do enough to find the woman they last saw two years ago.

<snip>

“It’s a real mystery,” said Thomas Shamshak, who is part of the investigative team.
“Maura vanished. Could Maura be alive? Yeah, I think the family would hope that she went someplace else and may be living. But there’s also the possibility she’s not alive.”


View complete article at Link:

http://news.bostonherald.com/localR...779&format=text
 
Private Investigators Renew Search For Missing Woman

21-Year-Old Disappears After Car Accident In New Hampshire

NewsCenter 5's Amalia Barreda reported that Maura Murray disappeared in February 2004 after walking away from an accident that she had in Haverhill, N.H. The mystery of what happened to the 21-year-old University of Massachusetts nursing student still lingers.

..."A young lady, seemingly with everything going for her, just vanishes off the face of the Earth," private investigator Thomas Shamshak said.

.... "They're in the throes of a crisis. I could not imagine something like that happening to me. When I look into these peoples' eyes they want some closure, they need some help. That's what we're offering. That's all we can offer is some hope and bring some peace to this crisis," he said.

More: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/5845343/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=news
 
Private Investigators Renew Search For Missing Woman

21-Year-Old Disappears After Car Accident In New Hampshire

NewsCenter 5's Amalia Barreda reported that Maura Murray disappeared in February 2004 after walking away from an accident that she had in Haverhill, N.H. The mystery of what happened to the 21-year-old University of Massachusetts nursing student still lingers.

..."A young lady, seemingly with everything going for her, just vanishes off the face of the Earth," private investigator Thomas Shamshak said.

.... "They're in the throes of a crisis. I could not imagine something like that happening to me. When I look into these peoples' eyes they want some closure, they need some help. That's what we're offering. That's all we can offer is some hope and bring some peace to this crisis," he said.

More: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/5845343/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=news
 
I went to her website and read the timeline section - and it is just baffling. The time is SO SHORT when she was there and then was gone - apparently 2 witnesses saw her talking to the bus driver outside her car, and within 15 minutes of that he's called the police and they arrive very quickly. I can't believe the bus driver had anything to do with her being missing - what kind of idiot would rush right home and call the cops with a girl in the bus? Considering how many could verify he talked to her, she seemed to have slipped away with no one seeing. No one. No tracks in the snow, no nothing. It's just baffling. It's good to see more PIs looking at this, but . . . I think the most good they can do now is look for a living Maura. If she was abducted, they left no trace.
 
Seems that despite some media reports, loved ones do still retain some hope that Maura is living:

Printed with Permission From WWW.MauraMurray.com
Helena Murray wrote:LOCAL NEWS

New eyes look for missing woman: 12 volunteers could act as ‘catalyst’ in search for student from Hanson

By JOE McGEE
The Patriot Ledger

A team of private investigators is joining forces with the family of Maura Murray to help find the missing 22-year-old Hanson woman.

John Healy, a retired New Hampshire State Police trooper, is leading the 12-man group of volunteers. They are already focusing on a few leads police might not have looked into, Healy said yesterday.

‘‘There are a couple of remote parking areas and fishing areas two to three miles from the highway and those areas may not have been searched yet,’’ Healy said.

Murray disappeared on Feb. 9, 2004, after her car was involved in a minor single-vehicle accident on Route 112 in Haverhill, N.H.

Nearly two years later, the effort to find her has been re-energized, not only by the volunteer group but by national media attention and a recently filed legal petition.

The Murray case will be featured on the ABC-TV news program ‘‘20/20’’ next month. The segment will be titled ‘‘Vanished.’’

Murray’s family has been at odds with New Hampshire authorities. The family says police have not done enough to keep them informed about the investigation.

<snip>

Sharon Rausch, the mother of Murray’s boyfriend, said the family is hoping for a resolution.

‘‘We all still feel that the odds are that Maura isn’t living, but it’s important for us to bring her home,’’ Rausch said. ‘‘We loved her, and if someone harmed her, they ought to be brought to justice.’’

Joe McGee may be reached at jmcgee@ledger.com.

Copyright 2006 The Patriot Ledger
Transmitted Thursday, January 05, 2006
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Sharon said:
http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2006/01/05/news/news09.txt

I would like to clarify my quote in the Patriot Ledger. Joe McGee and I talked for more than 30 minutes; I am sure that he cannot print eveything one says.

Regarding my quote, what I said in entirety was:

Knowing her, we all still feel that the odds are that Maura isn’t living, but until we have proof, we cannot give up hope. Even if she is no longer living, it's important for us to bring her home. We love Maura, and if someone harmed her, they ought to be brought to justice. We would want justice for her. The citizens of NH should also want justice so that another innocent person will not be harmed.

"Our help is from the Lord, who created heaven and earth." Psalm 24:8
Click to expand...
 
"20/20" report on Maura Murray to air late Jan., early Feb.

By The Associated Press | January 6, 2006

A national television report on the case of a mysterious disappearance in northern New Hampshire won't air until late January or early February, the network said Friday.

Reports last month indicated that a "20/20" report on Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray would air Friday night. But Alyssa Apple, spokeswoman for the ABC newsmagazine in New York, said the program is still being worked on.

More at Link: http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2006/01/06/2020_report_on_maura_murray_to_air_late_jan_early_feb/
 
"20/20" report on Maura Murray to air late Jan., early Feb.

By The Associated Press | January 6, 2006

A national television report on the case of a mysterious disappearance in northern New Hampshire won't air until late January or early February, the network said Friday.

Reports last month indicated that a "20/20" report on Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray would air Friday night. But Alyssa Apple, spokeswoman for the ABC newsmagazine in New York, said the program is still being worked on.

More at Link: http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2006/01/06/2020_report_on_maura_murray_to_air_late_jan_early_feb/
 
According to an annoucement on WWW.MauraMurray.com the same private investigator, Tom Shamshak and Helena Murray will appear on Fox News' "The Line-UP" on Sunday evening, January 8th (TOMORROW) at 9:00 PM EST.


Sharon makes a very good suggestion at WWW.MauraMurray.com and suggests that we not only watch the show, but that we email a '"thank you" to Fox News.
 
According to an annoucement on WWW.MauraMurray.com the same private investigator, Tom Shamshak and Helena Murray will appear on Fox News' "The Line-UP" on Sunday evening, January 8th (TOMORROW) at 9:00 PM EST.


Sharon makes a very good suggestion at WWW.MauraMurray.com and suggests that we not only watch the show, but that we email a '"thank you" to Fox News.
 
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