NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 7

[McSpy]

This is good stuff right here.
She did have a cell phone, but could the battery have died? Was it left in the car, I can't remember? If either of those were true and she had no quarter, she must have had that calling card. I am about 90% sure that call was from Maura, I am with you and see it as a GIANT coincidence if it wasn't.
I think she survived the night somehow - made that call and then ??????

She had the cell phone with her when she left the accident scene, but left the AA card in the car. She couldn't get a call out on the cell phone, because that part of NH has lousy coverage. If she wanted to phone anyone, she would have needed to use a land line phone.

 

[CanManEh]

Future u saw what i saw in the Disappeared documentry too then the sargent or officer they interviewed allmost seemed like he was upset that the camera was there in his town asking questions about his actions in to the case i stated this in my first post . Dont forget the dad Fred is sueing them for the transcripts so they can conduct thier own searches. we can drop the walking off in to the woods she only had at most 15 minutes after being maybe concussed she wouldnt have gotten far enough and the dogs get a scent they dont get a percentage of the scent as to what item u give that dog so if they got her scent up the road they wouldnt have lost it because it was a new glove thats just not how those dogs work if they had the scent there locked and if she went in to the woods the dogs would have found her and by now hunters or heck her own dad would have. also no one talks about the fact that she did call the lady to try to get a room to rent so yes she was getting away from something in my oppinion but not running away for good and her mother and father and billy all agree that is her on her bf's cell making whimpering noises to me sighns of her being tighed up and/or hurt but either way in the presence of someone she didnt want to be with. for the record i believe she passed up the school bus because she seen that as an authoritty figure she was either hit and picked up and put in the car or just got in the next car and he/they did what they wanted or she was so out of it concussed or stressed or drunk maybe passed out and that gave him/they the time to go where ever they wanted to go and do whatever they wanted to do..

 

[McSpy]

the arrogance of the NH LE involved in this case from the beginning has always bothered me. If you watch the interviews with Lt. Scarinza (sp?) he is SO SURE this is a suicide based on so little. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone is thought to be suicidal and goes missing, aren't they considered endangered and a cause for concern? I just couldn't believe how casual that Lieutenant was and what a lack of seriousness he showed from the very beginning. MP cases seem to get treated so differently depending on the state the person goes missing from, the LE agency involved, and even the responding officer's attitude - just comparing the initial reaction to Maura's disappearance with the LE reaction and investigation of Brooke Wilberger, Dru Sjodin, Taylor Behl, etc makes the NH LE look negligent.

I agree. They were a little too quick to judge her and had pretty much summed it up in the first couple of days, if not hours. How did they know if she wasn't only 16 years old? They were ready to just call it day, after they towed the vehicle. The vehicle had Massachusetts plates and the young female driver was missing in a dark and sparsely populated place, during the winter. She wasn't a local with Mass. plates. Shouldn't they have been concerned?

 

[OldSteve]

I agree. They were a little too quick to judge her and had pretty much summed it up in the first couple of days, if not hours. How did they know if she wasn't only 16 years old? They were ready to just call it day, after they towed the vehicle. The vehicle had Massachusetts plates and the young female driver was missing in a dark and sparsely populated place, during the winter. She wasn't a local with Mass. plates. Shouldn't they have been concerned?

I believe part of LE's attitude was in part because when they first spoke to Fred Murray he mentioned something about Maura doing “the old squaw walk” a reference to a woman who feels she is no longer useful, and thus goes into the woods to die along.
But the strange thing is, shouldn't that have prompted LE to get out an find her all the more quickly?

 

[ThePhantom]

Yes, absolutely. Therefore, I am questioning how well the initial search was handled, along with how the interview with the last person to see Maura alive was conducted.

 

[McSpy]

She had the cell phone with her when she left the accident scene, but left the AA card in the car. She couldn't get a call out on the cell phone, because that part of NH has lousy coverage. If she wanted to phone anyone, she would have needed to use a land line phone.

I believe part of LE's attitude was in part because when they first spoke to Fred Murray he mentioned something about Maura doing “the old squaw walk” a reference to a woman who feels she is no longer useful, and thus goes into the woods to die along.
But the strange thing is, shouldn't that have prompted LE to get out an find her all the more quickly?

I agree. LE should have pictured Maura as if she was their own family member, who is missing or maybe suicidal, to gain some perspective on the situation. Would you just chalk up the disappearance as just a run of the mill suicide, if it was your son, daughter or even friend? LE had lost perspective on this case. This didn't happen in a city where she could have taken a bus or found a coffee shop to stay warm, it was a dark and cold forest. They didn't even know her age. She could have been a minor. If the state trooper didn't drive the roads east to try to find her--- shame on him.

 

[lieber32]

Maybe she was failing school thats why she gave professors the lie about a death. and i have never once heard about any closet ..and u did awnser one of my questions about the phone call i wanted to know why they couldnt say yes it was her because of her cell records but she used a card which the familly said she did all the time. but to use that wouldnt u need to use it at a phonebooth maybe not..I still think she told the bus driver to go because he was to much of an authority figure and she waved one of the next cars down .or they accidently clipped her maybe a couple of twenty something guys in a car they grabbed her and took her to wherever they took her bound her gaged her and the next day somehoe he got to a phone and all u do to use a phone card is punch in the code u dont talk to a operator . u put in the code it starts ringing and she gets her bf.s machine she is bound and gaged which is why she is whimpering in the phone or she hears them coming back...

I really have no clue what happened to this girl and feel really bad for the family. It would have been way to early in the semester for her to be failing classes (I have a Masters degree so this I can say confidently). Also from what I read she is a very smart girl. She was an honors student, went to West Point before Amherst. My eye doctor who I've known since I was a little girl went to West Point, according to him it is hard to get in and they have high standards. The phone call really is a mystery to me. My personal opinion is she just needed to get away for a little while to clear her head. She heads to a place that she has fond memories of and then, thats the big question what happened ?

 

[OldSteve]

I really have no clue what happened to this girl and feel really bad for the family. It would have been way to early in the semester for her to be failing classes (I have a Masters degree so this I can say confidently). Also from what I read she is a very smart girl. She was an honors student, went to West Point before Amherst. My eye doctor who I've known since I was a little girl went to West Point, according to him it is hard to get in and they have high standards. The phone call really is a mystery to me. My personal opinion is she just needed to get away for a little while to clear her head. She heads to a place that she has fond memories of and then, thats the big question what happened ?

BBM - So true!

 

[ThePhantom]

I think authorities often use the default conclusions of "he/she just ran away," or, "he/she was suicidal," when they don't want to (for whatever reason) deal with it. Seen it many times, as I'm sure many of you here have.

 

[future criminologist]

I believe part of LE's attitude was in part because when they first spoke to Fred Murray he mentioned something about Maura doing “the old squaw walk”

That's the first I've heard of Fred Murray saying that - where did you hear this? It just doesn't sound like something he would say - he was certain she was alive and wanted them to search for her assuming she was.

But yeah I agree that if there was a question of her being suicidal, they should have taken it even MORE seriously and not just called it a day.

 

[CanManEh]

I think your mixing that up with something from that book that was in her car that the police made a big deal of because it was that kinda book where people did go off in to the mountains to end thier suffering..but fred said the book was allways in her car and that the book is not all tragic there are some good stories of survival in the book too..but i think thats the mix up with what u said that fred said about the squaw walk or whatever.

 

[OldSteve]

That's the first I've heard of Fred Murray saying that - where did you hear this? It just doesn't sound like something he would say - he was certain she was alive and wanted them to search for her assuming she was.

But yeah I agree that if there was a question of her being suicidal, they should have taken it even MORE seriously and not just called it a day.

BBM here's a link to the South Shore Express article where I gleaned that:

http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is-missing/869-mauras-father-disputes-nh-newspaper-report.html

I found the series of articles presented by the South Shore Express to be the best IMO. Was hoping they would have something for this year's 7th anniversary, but they didn't.... here's a link to the where the articles begin:

http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is-missing.html

Well worth reading for anyone who wants to get up to speed on all that took place.

 

[goldiegirl]

What bothers me is when LE seems to have the attitude of, "Well she/he had plans to go away willingly, therefore there's nothing more to investigate." Even if a person was upset about something, did plan to leave, went somewhere willingly, or even planned to kill himself or herself, why does that mean something ELSE (additional) couldn't have happened along the way? Or is it that they figure the person was going to disappear/commit suicide anyway, so it doesn't matter? I'm not suggesting whatsoever that they consciously think this or say it, but I wonder.

I can understand the importance of and temptation to look at the circumstances surrounding a person's disappearance, such as whether or not there was any reason for wanting to get away, but when you throw something like an unplanned car accident into the mix, ANYTHING could have happened afterward. Even if she had been suicidal and doing the "old squaw walk," something completely different could have happened to her after this wreck.

In a hypothetical situation, I could get upset with my husband tonight and say I'm walking to a motel to stay there for a few days. On my way there, a serial killer could pick me up on the side of the road. It seems like the police would only go as far as to find out I had planned the disappearance and would dismiss it and stop looking into it any further until my dead body was found in an alley. Know what I mean?

 

[McSpy]

That's the first I've heard of Fred Murray saying that - where did you hear this? It just doesn't sound like something he would say - he was certain she was alive and wanted them to search for her assuming she was.

But yeah I agree that if there was a question of her being suicidal, they should have taken it even MORE seriously and not just called it a day.

I recall Fred saying that in an article early in the investigation. I think he was referring more to her being very emotional and upset. I think LE did see the book on the White Mt. tragedies and survivals as another form of proof she was suicidal too. I agree, it seemed like they wanted to close the case with that conclusion.

 

[McSpy]

What bothers me is when LE seems to have the attitude of, "Well she/he had plans to go away willingly, therefore there's nothing more to investigate." Even if a person was upset about something, did plan to leave, went somewhere willingly, or even planned to kill himself or herself, why does that mean something ELSE (additional) couldn't have happened along the way? Or is it that they figure the person was going to disappear/commit suicide anyway, so it doesn't matter? I'm not suggesting whatsoever that they consciously think this or say it, but I wonder.

I can understand the importance of and temptation to look at the circumstances surrounding a person's disappearance, such as whether or not there was any reason for wanting to get away, but when you throw something like an unplanned car accident into the mix, ANYTHING could have happened afterward. Even if she had been suicidal and doing the "old squaw walk," something completely different could have happened to her after this wreck

In a hypothetical situation, I could get upset with my husband tonight and say I'm walking to a motel to stay there for a few days. On my way there, a
serial killer could pick me up on the side of the road. It seems like the police would only go as far as to find out I had planned the disappearance and would dismiss it and stop looking into it any further until my dead body was found in an alley. Know what I mean?

Sometimes, I think LE deals with so many losers day after day that they get jaded. Most of the time they deal with the same trouble makers, drug addicts, alcoholics, thieves, and they also see a lot of domestic violence. They see the worse of the worst. It probably colors their attitudes sometimes.

They should have tried to contact the owner of the car (Fred) that night. LE had no idea of the circumstances and should have inquired then. It might have made a difference in the outcome. I think it was a couple of days before he got that call.

 

[McSpy]

Wikipedia is not always reliable info. Info can be put in Wikipedia articles by anyone - the general public.

I think an Amherst student (maybe a friend of Maura's?) researched and wrote the Wikipedia article on Maura's disappearance. The article does have the sources linked to the facts sited, so it seems pretty reliable to me.

 

[CanManEh]

Great point Goldie,, and you know police often to what i believe they call wellfare checks when they believe some one is maybe suicidal or upset im not to sure on the police standards on what constitutes then going out on a wellfare check but heck i have heard so many even now adays stories where cops say wait to file a missing persons report as they did in this case aswell .heck if i was a parent in this situation you may be better off to ask for a wellfare check cause u would think if they cant find the person they are doing a wellfare check on well they are gonna start thier investigation right there maybe sooner then they would for a missing older teen or adult..maybe this is a new way to get around these police that say she will turn up and loose the 48 hours and never get that back.. I am not at all suggesting that anyone should be abducted or turn up missing but jesus its almost like this needs to happen to a LE daughter or familly member for them to really understand as sad as that is to say , I do not wish it upon noone but something has to change in my oppinnion.

 

[future criminologist]

What bothers me is when LE seems to have the attitude of, "Well she/he had plans to go away willingly, therefore there's nothing more to investigate." Even if a person was upset about something, did plan to leave, went somewhere willingly, or even planned to kill himself or herself, why does that mean something ELSE (additional) couldn't have happened along the way? Or is it that they figure the person was going to disappear/commit suicide anyway, so it doesn't matter? I'm not suggesting whatsoever that they consciously think this or say it, but I wonder.

EXACTLY - and compare this with Leah Roberts' case, recently featured on "Disappeared" - also an adult, also disappeared willingly on a Jack Kerouac-like excursion - but even though she disappeared on her own volition and left a note for her family to not worry about her, LE STILL investigated it as a missing persons' case when all activity on her accounts stopped. They did not stop looking when her car showed up crashed over an embankment. They even took the movie ticket paystub and interviewed people at the restaurant next to the movie theatre to find out her last known whereabouts. And they looked under the hood of the car and found unknown male DNA. Think NH LE would have gone to this extent? Cases like Maura's happen ALL THE TIME and LE still investigates them as suspicious, and reaches out to state LE and even the FBI - and in Maura's case, the FBI offered assistance and local LE REFUSED it. I've been researching MP cases for a while now and I've never heard seen such negligence from LE - not even when the MP is a prostitute or transient (and LE therefore being less likely to take it seriously). I think the local cops knew they were inexperienced with this type of case and in over their heads but are too prideful to admit it.

 

[goldiegirl]

They refused help from the FBI?! I didn't know this! Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to quote the messages I am referencing. That's really disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves. Even if they made the initial mistake to refuse help, you'd think that after a few years of no resolution they'd accept the help. I just don't see how they think it makes them look good to have this case remain unsolved. I'm seeing this happen more and more often, and I just don't understand it. One would think LE would want to solve cases ASAP, even if just to make themselves look better.

 

[McSpy]

They refused help from the FBI?! I didn't know this! Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to quote the messages I am referencing. That's really disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves. Even if they made the initial mistake to refuse help, you'd think that after a few years of no resolution they'd accept the help. I just don't see how they think it makes them look good to have this case remain unsolved. I'm seeing this happen more and more often, and I just don't understand it. One would think LE would want to solve cases ASAP, even if just to make themselves look better.

At least, they have a new cold case unit. Nh had a lot of unsolved crimes and the missing people were adding up, so I hope this unit finds some resolution for the families of these victims.