NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 7

[scoops]

about the rag theory:

I am still leaning towards Maura being the person that put the rag there.

Her car was found facing westbound in the eastbound lane on Wild Ammonoosuc rd.

However, most of her car (as I understand it) was off the road, meaning only the tail end of her car was sticking out some in the eastbound lane.

It would make sense right in that area to try and do something to alert all on-coming cars from slamming right into the tail end of Maura's car.

It's pitch black and most of you have seen that sharp curve. Most on-coming cars are going to have no idea that a car is sticking out in the road as they are about to negotiate that curve, so having something that alerts drivers like something white makes some kind of sense to me.

To answer someone's question, the rag was found to be relatively clean and loosely placed in the pipe, likely meaning that it hadn't been sitting in the tailpipe for very long especially while the car had been moving.

 

[txsvicki]

I've been reading the blog recently, but I still think she ran away and doesn't want to be found. The odds some random murder was lurking around the cold NH mountains seems extremely low to me, but maybe I am naive. I keep pointing back to the fact she ran away down a mountain slope after she crashed as a signal she didn't want to be found. Otherwise, I feel like any normal person would stay with their car till police showed up.


Sent from my iPad

That's my theory, after the wreck in the snowbank she ran away, and was already thinking about running. Now that I read about the boyfriend possibly cheating, wrecking her dad's car, crying at work, and fear of getting a dwi running away makes more sense than getting harmed by a lunatic. I'm not criticizing Mara at all, but it sounds to me that there might have been some alcholism involved and that everyone in her life were high achievers and expected it of others. That's not a bad thing, but she could have wanted to get away from everyone and everything, including alcohol. I hope I'm right. It's much better than being killed by someone or suicide. If Mara was drunk that night she could have been so upset that she ran off, fell, and got hurt but searchers and her Dad should have found something by now.

 

[Jane Birch]

I came across an article about this case and it also allowed room for people to comment. I read some comments that others wrote and one struck at me as really weird and suspicious. Kind of gave me the creeps about what possibly could have happened to Maura Murray. The web site is Maura Murray 2010 Case Update? feel free to read the comments.

But the one that struck me as odd was from a person who had first hand experience almost similar to what happened to Maura except this person made it out alive.



Rt 112 breakdown
"I was just on Rt 112 about 5 miles from the location Maura went missing. It was last week , on the 7th anniversary of Maura's accident. No cell phone coverage, negative 8 degrees and no way to get my car out of a snowbank which I drove into after avoiding 2 moose in the road.

I was heading to my ski house in Woodsville, it was after midnight. The few things I brought included 4 beers. During the 1.5 hours of digging the car out and hiding from passing cars I decided to drink 3 of the beers. My car wasn't moving and the clutch was burnt, I had no hope except to hike down the road and get cell coverage.

I did just that and called a local tow company when I had bars. Before the tow truck showed up the police did. The officer invited me to get in the cruiser to warm up while the tow truck hooked the car. Before I knew it I was cuffed and stuffed into the back of the cruiser.I was arrested for DUI. This was not at all what I expected but I was safer than I was an hour before that. I didn't put on my hazard lights and when I could hear an oncoming car I hid behind the huge snowbank.

I spent much of my time digging with the small shovel I keep in the car. On our way back to the station I explained this to the officer and told him why I was frightened by the events of the evening. The Woodstock officer stated he had no knowledge of Maura, her disappearance, even the case! He called in another officer to keep an eye on me as he booked me. The other officer also had no knowledge of Maura or her case. These are new officers I understand, but still, no clue as to a young woman gone missing only 7 years ago right in their patrol area!

Believe me, I gave them all a piece of my mind. I was booked and spent the night in Grafton County jail. I asked plenty of the correction officers about Maura's case and they too seemed to not care or didn't know. It was a horrifying experience but I am safe.

Even though I have to deal with the charges, I'm not worried since I wasn't driving and have no record. I feel like I was destine to go off the road right there, that night, and deal with those cops. I hope they do the research and maybe get more involved. Shame on them all! THIS WHOLE CASE IS A MESS THANKS TO COPS WHO THINK THEY KNOW MORE THAN THEY DO."
Reply answered by Lucky girl | 02-16-2011 at 04:09 AM

According to this person, the cops didn't know or didn't care about the Maura Murray case. That to me is just pretty disturbing. Maybe someone really knows more than he or she has said but the entire case is being botched. Maybe another person hurt Maura and it is being covered up.

And what was with the rag stuffed in the tailpipe of the car? I wonder if she put it there or if someone put it there. If Maura was drinking I don't think she would have put the rag in there. Maybe someone had an opportunity to put the rag there then she drove off not realizing it and the person caught up with her once she crashed. Maybe the rag caused her to crash. I really want an explanation for this.

The site above offers other ideas and clues.

On the other hand, so much of what's in the other comments is just plain WRONG. I'm not blaming you for that, I'm just shaking my head at how so much of the information that's been discussed over the years has gotten confused, misconstrued, mis-heard, mis-remembered, or mistaken.

(one commenter thought the BOX of Franzia wine was a CASE of wine, and had heard that BONES were found in the A-frame. Neither of these is remotely accurate).

Again, this isn't to criticize you or your post in any way--it's just amazement and frustration at how much misinformation is out there regarding this case.

I agree that the comment you posted is a bit troubling.....though I also think that it was completely foolish of the commenter to drink beer while shoveling out his stuck car. That's a seriously foolish thing to do.

 

[McSpy]

The more I think about this the more I am becoming convinced that someone stuffed that rag in Maura's tailpipe to make her car stall. I think Maura stopped for gas and possibley had someone look at her engine. It would have been easy for this guy to follow her from a distance knowing for sure her car would stall especially with only 3 cylinders working. I never believed Maura would stop to think to put a rag in her tailpipe for whatever reason. Her car was facing the other way so on coming traffic would have seen the front of her car first. Did anyone happen to examine the rag? Would have been nice to know how dirty it was. Of course it could have been dirty to begin with. Just my opinion and I could be wrong. When it comes to this case nothing would surprise me.

The rag is quite the mystery, but I think it may mean nothing. If she went into the trunk to retrieve something (flashlight?) I can picture it falling out of the trunk from her rummaging around in the emergency car kit. She could have closed and locked the trunk and found it lying on the ground. To me, it was possible she just stuck it in the tail pipe to retrieve later, because she was in a hurry. Supposedly, her car was in a ditch, which suggests the back end was sticking up somewhat. The reason I think the rag may have ended up on the ground is because it has happened to me a few times, especially when I have a lot of items in the trunk.

This is just a theory of course . . . I could be wrong.

 

[flightlevel]

On the other hand, so much of what's in the other comments is just plain WRONG. I'm not blaming you for that, I'm just shaking my head at how so much of the information that's been discussed over the years has gotten confused, misconstrued, mis-heard, mis-remembered, or mistaken.

It may help if we knew the basic absolute facts so that we don't continue to confuse or misconstrue the situation. If we don't get sidetracked by misinformation it could possibly help us all to stay focused on the facts and hopefully be of some help to the case. Most of us aren't privy to the actual facts. What exactly are the basic facts of the case that we should know? What is the basic information before it got contorted and misconstrued? It may give us a fresh starting point to know the orginal facts.

 

[McSpy]

about the rag theory:

I am still leaning towards Maura being the person that put the rag there.

Her car was found facing westbound in the eastbound lane on Wild Ammonoosuc rd.

However, most of her car (as I understand it) was off the road, meaning only the tail end of her car was sticking out some in the eastbound lane.

It would make sense right in that area to try and do something to alert all on-coming cars from slamming right into the tail end of Maura's car.

It's pitch black and most of you have seen that sharp curve. Most on-coming cars are going to have no idea that a car is sticking out in the road as they
are about to negotiate that curve, so having something that alerts drivers like something white makes some kind of sense to me.

To answer someone's question, the rag was found to be relatively clean and loosely placed in the pipe, likely meaning that it hadn't been sitting in the tailpipe for very long especially while the car had been moving.

This makes sense too. It could have been a feeble attempt to alert other drivers. If it was in her tailpipe prior to her accident, it would have most likely fallen out of the tailpipe from the impacts. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Yes I have been all over the otherboards. Thing is, do we know 100% for sure where the rage came from? So much has been written that was false. Of course like I had said, someone could have gone into her trunk if they had an oppertunity to look at her car when she stopped for gas and used her own rag.

I've read that the rag was in an emergency car kit (kept in the trunk of the Saturn) that Maura's father had put together for her.

 

[McSpy]

What would make a young woman go to see her sleeping father at such an hour as this. How far would she have had to drive to actually see him, had the accident not occurred (how many hours to drive?) Perhaps she wanted to be there at first light when he awoke.

Why didn't she talk to him afterwards about what was so important to her, and really, perhaps she did get it off her chest, and that is what is what we do not have access to as we muse over this case.

She did talk to her sister, perhaps the sister knows and isn't saying. Otherwise, it appears to be a family that doesn't share info with each other,from the outsider viewpoint (me) sitting on the sidelines listening to what came down towards the end of her life.

Going out at an ungodly hour to see her dad, not making it, yet talking to her
sister, How about the father? Was he made aware of her problems and wanting to change universities?

I believe her sister said that their phone conversation was typical--not out of the ordinary. If Maura did have problems (pregnancy?), I can see her holding back on talking about it. She may not have been ready and/or she was afraid of the reaction from her loved ones. Her accidents may have threw her off kilter though. IMO, there is no doubt she was emotional about these blunders too. If Maura's sister knows something, I cannot see her not telling someone. The public or the media may not have this info, but I would think her family knows if there was something said in their phone conversations. Since Maura's disappearence, her mother had been diagnosed with cancer and had passed away a few years ago on Maura's birthday. I cannot see Maura's sister holding secrets from her ailing Mom. IMO, a pregnancy or whatever issues that were bugging Maura were not bad enough to hold back from desperate and grieving family members. JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

So what if the guy eventually makes a buck off a book. If he is able to find out what really happened, it will be so worth it.

I have no objection to an investigative reporter or experienced writer/reporter making money from writing a book.

I have a lot of objections to writers who spin theories about unsolved cases and pass them off as "evidence." There are serious journalists who have written about this case who have managed not to smear the reputations of the victims (a group that includes the family and close friends). All of these articles have been exhaustively linked on the Maura Murray WS threads. Newbies to the case should start with the local newspaper articles and work from there. (I don't have links at hand, but if I get time tonight, I will post them.)

There were also PIs and others who looked exhaustively at the vehicle (which was left at a local garage) and the crash site, with conflicting results. All of this information is available on the internet in the form of mainstream media articles and related documentation.

I think it is quite possible that, in the wake of the NH state police implying suicide by misstating that a note TO Billy was found in her room at school, family members and friends may have chosen not to talk about their interactions with Maura because anything negative might have given LE a reason to stop looking for her. Let's put it this way: it is quite possible that she was drinking too much or abusing alcohol, that she was depressed, or that she was at some point of life crossroads. All that could be true and still she could have been kidnapped right in the middle of the road where the dogs lost her scent track. Unless someone else was involved in her trip, for which we have NO evidence, then the crime scene is in NH and what happened at that site holds the answers to the question of what happened to Maura.

I also agree with McSpy and scoops that the rag was an attempt to prevent someone else from hitting her car. Tying it to a door, etc., would not have served to alert someone coming up on the car in the traffic lane.

 

[McSpy]

I have no objection to an investigative reporter or experienced writer/reporter making money from writing a book.

I have a lot of objections to writers who spin theories about unsolved cases and pass them off as "evidence." There are serious journalists who have written about this case who have managed not to smear the reputations of the victims (a group that includes the family and close friends). All of these articles have been exhaustively linked on the Maura Murray WS threads. Newbies to the case should start with the local newspaper articles and work from there. (I don't have links at hand, but if I get time tonight, I will post them.)

There were also PIs and others who looked exhaustively at the vehicle (which was left at a local garage) and the crash site, with conflicting results. All of this information is available on the internet in the form of mainstream media articles and related documentation.

I think it is quite possible that, in the wake of the NH state police implying suicide by misstating that a note TO Billy was found in her room at school, family members and friends may have chosen not to talk about their interactions with Maura because anything negative might have given LE a reason to stop looking for her. Let's put it this way: it is quite possible that she was drinking too much or abusing alcohol, that she was depressed, or that she was at some point of life crossroads. All that could be true and still she could have been kidnapped right in the middle of the road where the dogs lost her scent track. Unless someone else was involved in her trip, for which we have NO evidence, then the crime scene is in NH and what happened at that site holds the answers to the question of what happened to Maura.

I also agree with McSpy and scoops that the rag was an attempt to prevent someone else from hitting her car. Tying it to a door, etc., would not have served to alert someone coming up on the car in the traffic lane.

You make so much sense here.

 

[Jane Birch]

I've read that the rag was in an emergency car kit (kept in the trunk of the Saturn) that Maura's father had put together for her.

This is also what I've been told.

 

[Leomoon80]

Ref:

Since Maura's disappearence, her mother had been diagnosed with cancer and had passed away a few years ago on Maura's birthday.

I agree with you, that the sister would not have held info from her grieving mother.
I'm also sad to hear that her mom passed away on her birthday, but not surprised either., as to lose a child before their time or before you pass, is almost incomprehensible really and to go on living is very tough too.

I still however, don't know why she'd leave at such an odd hour to go see her father at first light? How many hrs would it have taken to reach his house when she set out initially?

3AM just seems like a strange time even for a younger person to leave and drive (the 1st accident? ) What could have prompted this ?

for xLiqoricex


REF

Wow. I'm done posting here.
__________________
All opinions should be considered

Please don't stop posting, everyone's ideas are welcomed of course. Just ignore any rudeness you come upon and you'll be okay.

Everyone has an idea, just as everyone has a belly button ........but all are attached to their "own"
I enjoyed reading yours, they were always insightful and would miss you.

 

[telemag]

No way I believe Maura put that rag in her tailpipe for oncoming traffic to see. No one driving in the opposite direction is going to see a rag sticking out of a tailpipe in dark before they are going to see the car itself. General field of vision is not for someone to look down and to the left while driving on a dark road at night. If Maura was thinking of alerting oncoming drivers of a deserted car then the logical think to do would be to drape it across the open trunk and close the lid on it or to roll the window up on it. Someone of you may say that Maura was not thinking logically that night and I would certainly agree. In fact I personally don't think Maura's mind was on anything but getting the heck out of there and not what she should do to alert oncoming traffic.

Now to bring up another point. So many people will state their opinions about what they know as fact. I have no problem with that although I never put much stock into it since I rarely hear anyone back up their info as to how they know what they are giving as opinion to actually be fact. I have heard so many times on different boards that this rag was loosely packed and came from her trunk. I have also read many times that the liquor was missing to now found out that it was accounted for. So how does any of us know for a fact what is true about the rag or other things that we are hearing. At least with Mr Renner, he is telling us where most of his info is coming from.

 

[gnomony]

At least with Mr Renner, he is telling us where most of his info is coming from.

If we stick with the known facts, they lead us to where we are now -- no solution. I like the idea of someone coming in new, not knowing the facts, and starting from scratch, trying to interview primary sources. I think it's wise to play dumb, to ignore the obvious, established answers and to ask the simple stupid questions all over again.

The worst place this ignoring of all the known and established facts can lead is to precisely where we are now -- not knowing what happened to Maura.

 

[telemag]

If we stick with the known facts, they lead us to where we are now -- no solution. I like the idea of someone coming in new, not knowing the facts, and starting from scratch, trying to interview primary sources. I think it's wise to play dumb, to ignore the obvious, established answers and to ask the simple stupid questions all over again.

The worst place this ignoring of all the known and established facts can lead is to precisely where we are now -- not knowing what happened to Maura.

I totally agree. This is why I think we should take what people say as fact and at least think of the possibility it may be either wrong all together or at least slightly exaggerated.

 

[xLiqoricex]

On the other hand, so much of what's in the other comments is just plain WRONG. I'm not blaming you for that, I'm just shaking my head at how so much of the information that's been discussed over the years has gotten confused, misconstrued, mis-heard, mis-remembered, or mistaken.

(one commenter thought the BOX of Franzia wine was a CASE of wine, and had heard that BONES were found in the A-frame. Neither of these is remotely accurate).

Again, this isn't to criticize you or your post in any way--it's just amazement and frustration at how much misinformation is out there regarding this case.

I agree that the comment you posted is a bit troubling.....though I also think that it was completely foolish of the commenter to drink beer while shoveling out his stuck car. That's a seriously foolish thing to do.

What are the actual facts about this entire case then? What stuff has gotten so misconstrued because like someone said it may help everyone to know. I guess since all those people were misconstrued on that site then everyone else who is posting in this specific message bored has all their opinions screwed up.

If it was so foolish for the person to drink beer while shoveling out the car then it was foolish for someone to lie to their ENTIRE family about their plans, go drinking ALONE knowing how dangerous it could be out there. THEN REFUSE help. To me, that's like a million times more foolish. Beside, what if the bus driver lied about asking Maura if he could call the LE. That TOO could be misconstrued, a lie and so forth. NO ONE knows what truly happened. I only share to try to help. Not to try to prove that people are liars.

 

[xLiqoricex]

Ref:

I agree with you, that the sister would not have held info from her grieving mother.
I'm also sad to hear that her mom passed away on her birthday, but not surprised either., as to lose a child before their time or before you pass, is almost incomprehensible really and to go on living is very tough too.

I still however, don't know why she'd leave at such an odd hour to go see her father at first light? How many hrs would it have taken to reach his house when she set out initially?

3AM just seems like a strange time even for a younger person to leave and drive (the 1st accident? ) What could have prompted this ?

for xLiqoricex


REF

Please don't stop posting, everyone's ideas are welcomed of course. Just ignore any rudeness you come upon and you'll be okay.

Everyone has an idea, just as everyone has a belly button ........but all are attached to their "own"
I enjoyed reading yours, they were always insightful and would miss you.

Leomoon,

Thank you for posting this. It was a very kind message you wrote. I know I may not know every single known fact in someones disappearance but I always strive to learn and consider what I learn. Sometimes I actually forget specific facts about a case and I accidently write it in a forum. I'm human and we all make mistakes. I'm no drama queen and I don't like arguing but it does frustrate me when someone attacks someones opinion- not even a fact. It's ridiculous. This is why we're all here. To try to figure out what happened even if it means typing out far fetched theories and ideas. If we all try to stick to facts I doubt it will lead to any resolution. Which is why I always accept everyones opinion. Someones opinion could be a break in a case that is needed. No one ever knows.

But yes, I'll ignore the rude people- try to at least.

Thanks again

 

[scoops]

No way I believe Maura put that rag in her tailpipe for oncoming traffic to see. No one driving in the opposite direction is going to see a rag sticking out of a tailpipe in dark before they are going to see the car itself. General field of vision is not for someone to look down and to the left while driving on a dark road at night. If Maura was thinking of alerting oncoming drivers of a deserted car then the logical think to do would be to drape it across the open trunk and close the lid on it or to roll the window up on it. Someone of you may say that Maura was not thinking logically that night and I would certainly agree. In fact I personally don't think Maura's mind was on anything but getting the heck out of there and not what she should do to alert oncoming traffic.

Now to bring up another point. So many people will state their opinions about what they know as fact. I have no problem with that although I never put much stock into it since I rarely hear anyone back up their info as to how they know what they are giving as opinion to actually be fact. I have heard so many times on different boards that this rag was loosely packed and came from her trunk. I have also read many times that the liquor was missing to now found out that it was accounted for. So how does any of us know for a fact what is true about the rag or other things that we are hearing. At least with Mr Renner, he is telling us where most of his info is coming from.

Telemag,
I think it depends on how the car ended up. From all accounts I have been able to track down, only a small portion of Maura's car was sticking out into the road and I am assuming based on witness testimony and reports that the part of her car that was sticking in the road was her rear passenger side of the car which I do believe is where her tailpipe is located.

I have also heard that the rag was clean when discovered and that it was not in the tailpipe very securely meaning if the car was moving with it in there, it would fall out pretty easily.

 

[xLiqoricex]

No way I believe Maura put that rag in her tailpipe for oncoming traffic to see. No one driving in the opposite direction is going to see a rag sticking out of a tailpipe in dark before they are going to see the car itself. General field of vision is not for someone to look down and to the left while driving on a dark road at night. If Maura was thinking of alerting oncoming drivers of a deserted car then the logical think to do would be to drape it across the open trunk and close the lid on it or to roll the window up on it. Someone of you may say that Maura was not thinking logically that night and I would certainly agree. In fact I personally don't think Maura's mind was on anything but getting the heck out of there and not what she should do to alert oncoming traffic.

Now to bring up another point. So many people will state their opinions about what they know as fact. I have no problem with that although I never put much stock into it since I rarely hear anyone back up their info as to how they know what they are giving as opinion to actually be fact. I have heard so many times on different boards that this rag was loosely packed and came from her trunk. I have also read many times that the liquor was missing to now found out that it was accounted for. So how does any of us know for a fact what is true about the rag or other things that we are hearing. At least with Mr Renner, he is telling us where most of his info is coming from.

Since I've heard about this case and the rag in the tailpipe. I knew from day one that she didn't put the rag in the tailpipe and this just IMO. Someone and other people have said she was the one who put the rag in the tailpipe. So I followed along according to what he or she had written. But from now on, I'm sticking to my own opinions no matter how many people argue about it- and that is what they are, just opinions and never any known facts. I can agree with you on opinion to actually be fact and if this is the case then he or should go to the LE to inform them.

And the only thing I heard about alcohol was that she supposedly purchased stuff that could create a white russian and that police found a plastic bottle that appeared to have alcohol in it. So they thought. That's all I know and I'm just going from what has been said by LE and other people. But who knows how accurate this stuff is. No one knows what happened and I'd never consider any of my opinions to be fact.

If anyone on here is typing facts then they should go to the LE. I know I would.

 

[goodgirl65]

Respectfully snipped

Ref:

I still however, don't know why she'd leave at such an odd hour to go see her father at first light? How many hrs would it have taken to reach his house when she set out initially?

3AM just seems like a strange time even for a younger person to leave and drive (the 1st accident? ) What could have prompted this ?

IIRC Fred Murray was visiting Maura and he was staying somewhere nearby...He let her borrow his new car to go out with friends..Instead of waiting until the next morning to return it, as intended, she decided to bring it back that same night. Of course, it seemed a rather strange decision, especially since it was so late and she presumedly had been drinking..IIRC her friends tried to dissuade her from returning it that night, but she was determined. I believe she may have wanted to discuss something with her father, or tell him something she felt urgent about...But then she had the accident, causing alot of damage...